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Demiurge vs M (Match Reset)

Why? Putting characters i like vs each other lol. Guessing this is my surprise.

As op is demiurge is, her biggest weakness is she can't deal with people like herself who have mid-godly regen, she has no concept manipulation or sealing.

M on the other hand has sealing, and considering he is the king of a race of conceptual beings, and fodder in comparison to him like Golden King can kill conceptual beings, safe to say he can kill ppl with mid-godly, he is also a conceptual existence, and is everything within sharnoth, a place which has infinite darkness, and that only exists because he has no emotions.

Anyway demiurge can't deal with M's regen, and M can kill or seal demiurge, however now that i think about it demiurge still has phantasmagoria which is mind manipulation + empathetic manipulation + illussion creation. M has no resistance to those and while it would be absurd to think a critter like say Bandersnatch could mind hax M, their mind hax only works on like 1 person while demiurge's works on entier cities, also still would be the issue of the empathetic + illussion manipulation.

Damn, hmm the precog might give demiurge an edge here again, if she sees and knows everything about M, she could incap with phatasmaoria, unless i am missing some resistance to that that M has.
 
I mean this match was inevitable as with the Demiurge spam going on. But I thought this would be great because both are very broken as well as being on the same tier having similar AP going by their pages
 
If demiurge didn't have op omniscience being able to see a person's past and understand them completly, along with seeing all of time including the infinite possibilities for the future, i would lean toward M.

However that with the combo of demiurge's mind + empathetic + ilussion + also memory manipulation i think gives her the win.

If M had resistance to all those though M would win since there is nothing she could do to him, but he doesn't (at least idk if he does maybe does in some untranslated side material i am not aware of) so demiurge takes it.

Though from what i have heard edison has the same powers as M and M has mind manipulation and memory manipulation, and M and edison have fought, so maybe he does resist phantasmagoria? Would need more info on M, but since it's all untranslated, going with demiurge at the moment.
 
This would become more complicated if speed wasn't equalized and took place in sharnoth, then M would have a slight speed advanatage, cause omnipresent>immeasurable, but even then though have no clue what he would start with though, but probably would be reality warping using his hands and then it be be which is faster reality warping using hands and omnipresent speed or mind manipulation via a thought with immeasurable speed.

Anyway we need more info on m, until then i think demiurge can take it speed equalized. Just have to wait to see what edison can do, hoping some higher dimensions exists in the series cause edison already ate all of space-time, and m=edison sans boosts like oblivion eyes from what i have heard.
 
Going from what i have heard, Outer Gods>Tick Tock Man with Oblivion Eyes>M=Tick Tock Man without Oblivion Eyes, after them the next strongest idk maybe chutulu since he required radiance boosted tesla to be defeated, plus being star level apparently.

Who knows though thoth might be stronger since gk is always praising him, although gk is fodder to chutulu.

There is also another character from one of the visual novels which is continent sized and was going to turn a planet 5x larger than earth into salt, though being star level, with concept hax at immeasurable speed, chutulu still slaps it.
 
Not sure if this is even still valid, with the acausality revisions demiurge's precog is useless against ppl like M, but she still has clairvoyance and insight which allows her to understand everything about her opponent so really nothing changes much.

But thing is M transcends causality and beings like that are virtually impossible to interact with normally, so not sure demiurge can still mind/memory hax him.
 
If demiurge's precog is useless against acausals then well...i mean clairvoyance can work really. I can only speculate M fought edison and they threw everything out of the bottom of their ass and draws (edison pre-yog eating and moon). Though if acausal is he down fall then M should take it if that would be true?
 
Everyone that have voted so far were agreeing with Celestial Pegasus' reasoning. But the man himself seems to doubt his own reasoning so that might invalidate all the votes casted so far
 
I can reset the Votes but I have a Question regarding M's Acausality. Did any Character in the series find it impossible to interact with him or is his Acausality based on statements of him Transcending Causality and hence he automatically gets Type 5 without showing any signs of Type 5??
 
Been around a year since the last time i played Sharnoth so i don't really remember much from the game. But there's supposedly a supplementary material released before the game that describe The M as a "Jet black that transcend/completely beyond space, time, and causality."
 
Found the excerpt

ÒÇîÕ¢▒Úƒ┐ÒéÆÒééÒüƒÒéëÒüÖÒÇéÚüòÒüåÒü¬ÒÇé
ÒÇÇÒü¥ÒüúÒüƒÒüÅÚüòÒüåÒÇé
ÒÇÇÒü®ÒüôÒéìÒüïÒÇüÒüéÒéëÒéåÒéïÒééÒü«ÒüîÒüéÒéîÒü«þÉåÒü¿µ│òÕëçÒü«õ©ÇÚâ¿ÒüºÒüéÒéïÕÅ»Þ⢵ǺÒééÒüéÒéïÒÇéÒüƒÒü¿ÒüêÒü░ÚüÖÒüïÒü¬ÚüÄÕÄ╗ÒÇüµ░©õ╣àþäíÚÖÉÒü½ÚÇúÒü¬ÒéèÚçìÒü¬ÒéèÕóùµ«ûÒüÖÒéïþäíÚÖÉÞñçÕ▒ñÕ«çÕ«ÖÒü«Õ╣¥ÒüñÒüïÒéÆÒÇüµÖéÚûôÒü¿þ®║ÚûôÒü¿Õøáµ×£ÒéÆÞÂàÒüêÒüªÕÑ┤Òü«"µ╝åÚ╗Æ"Òü»Õû░ÒéëÒüúÒüƒÒüîÒÇüÒüØÒéîÒüòÒüêÒÇüµêûÒüäÒü»ÒÇì
 
Yes I know that but does any character within the series able to interact with him via conventional means? Because to my knowledge, just Transcending Causality won't get you Type 5 if you don't fulfill the other requirement of being unable to be interacted with other beings in a conventional manner.

Also, the quotes you provided makes it look like he's a Non-Corporeal Abstract Omnipresent being. Also I've seen the term Multilayered Universes which could possibly mean that the Universes have more dimensional layers than regular universes and that he has complete control over it and is beyond it which means that he is a higher dimensional being
 
I don't really do Japanese myself but apparently some of the word in that excerpt just said a multiverse rather than some other multi-something-verse word (like for example if you put a multiverse in Japanese into a Google translator it would give you multi-dimensional universe instead) and the adjectives of that senteces are weird so the one who translated that excerpt (ALRF) just treat it as an excerpt that says something about infinite multiverse, hence The M's 2-A rating.

For most of the series, The M is depicted as using the body of James Moriarty as a meat puppet. So other individuals interacting with him is most likely only possible thanks to that fact. It's a body of a mortal that most likely than not wouldn't get any benefit from the true nature of The M. It's also made notable in the game that the more The M uses Krutschya Equation, the more he can access his true body and power as the Crawling Chaos.

So what you ask probably won't even matter as the meat puppet that is James Moriarty is still subject to reality to some extent while the true Crawling Chaos, the one that actually matter under the context of this match, is what possesses all those traits given in the supplementary materials. And should this Demiurge entity wants to affect The M's mind, then that would mean Demiurge needs to be capable of affecting something like the Crawling Chaos. Which i assume it's not capable of doing, judging from Celestial Pegasus' earlier post that expressed his doubt
 
What M devoured was an infinite series of multilayered universes:

"For example, in the far past, an infinite series of stacked and multilayered universes eternally increasing, beyond time, space and causality was being devoured by his "jet black"

So while this is 2-A, this is above baseline cause said universes had multiple layers which continually increased, on the other hand demiurge is just superior to a baseline 2-A.

Memory fades me but M might also have precog, depends on whether he was the one who gave mary and charlie the golden eye or if that's something different.

Regardless the M being used here is as Ashford said would be the one who is the King of Sharnoth, being a conceptual being who is all of sharnoth, and he hasn't really been affected so far, though depends on what happen vs edison but edison and him have the same powers anyway, M is a top tier in the series i doubt anyone besides edison has ever affected him.

Though if that is the quote that gives him acusality, not sure it makes him acausal, since i am not sure if devouring causality=being acausal,, i just asssumed he was acausal based on other stuff in the side materials since ppl said he was, and i don't know japanese to confirm it.
 
The "Multilayered" part is confusing as it could mean that said Universes had higher dimensions stacked layer upon layer and M is infinitely above than those higher dimensional universes. But I'm gonna go with what you and Ashford said and say it's only 2-A feat.

If he has statements or feats or explanations of his Acausality then it's all good. Otherwise if it's just something that needs to be taken with a grain of salt, then we can either add Possibly Acausality or wait for solid evidence/proof.
 
It could be higher dimensionsal but seems speculative, and we don't know how many dimensions those would be either, though even ALRF who translated it said it was confusing too so idk.

That idk, only thing i know is he supposedly transcends causality but it could have been cause of him devouring causality but not sure, only other thing i know is he has statements of time and distance meaning nothing to him.
 
Well I'm confused about this too. I feel like it'll be Type 4 but from what Ashford is saying, Type 5 is also a possibility. But anyways, who is getting a Vote here?
 
Demiurge is outclassed in everything, ap, hax etc, only thing saving her atm is clairvoyance and insight but could be null and void if M himself has precog and if he indeed does have type 5 acausality.

Though M being a conceptual existence, i wonder if Demiurge could affect him in the first place, since M is a concept, affecting him would require concept manipulation which demiurge doesn't have, i don't think she can mind hax a concept.
 
Actually i think he wins without that, since demiurge can't affect concepts, so she can't affect m, especially something that is infinite darkness.
 
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