Death and Organ Implosion

[Schnee_One]

Two abilities that people can't stop arguing over.

So, here's my question, to what extent do these abilities work? Does even basic Death Manipulation with zero feats kill someone with High regen or so?

And second, does Organ implosion completely ignore Durability even on someone 50 or so times stronger than you?

Discuss.

 

[RKGenki]

For death nanipulation, I'd say it depends on its mechanics

If it's done via physical attacks then it shoudln't, because organs should have a similar durability in comparison to the rest of the body. You can't tank a tier 6 attack of your organs are tier 10, because they would still shatter in that case. An example from the real world comes from medieval battles, where infantry soldier mostly died due to internal damage caused by the hits tanked by their armor.

 

[Schnee_One]

Let's say a character does a physical attack to your organs and your 6B plus against a High 6C

What if said Death has literally zero mechanics shown though? As in "Die" and a person with no form of regen dies.

 

[RKGenki]

Then your organs should be able to tank the attack. While their durabilty should still be a bit lower than the rest of the body, it's not entire tiers lower

I'd say it should be able to work against low levels of regen at best, before the level where you can regen major organs

 

[Antoniofer]

1) It depends of how the Death Manipulation works, powers vary between resurrection to nether manipulation, but Death Inducement works in everyone as long is alive, unless there's an in-universe explaination if how it works.

2) Generally we consider internal organs to be as durable as the real ones unless stated otherwise.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Organ destruction should absolutly count as durability negation. You can't workout your organs to make them stronger. Durability should count towards the parts of your body that are desgined to be strengthened while working out. The only argument one could make is for the heart, but even then you still have the rest of your internal organs, which are still weak and vulnerable, and on top of that the brain. You can strengthen your mind, but your brain is still jello.

 

[Schnee_One]

That is incorrect.

Physically stronger animals or people do actually contain ever so slightly more durable organs then that if a standard human.

A whales organs for example, are more durable then a car.

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

I'm gonna need a citation on that. I know they are larger and heavyer then a car, but I should still be able to tear a whales heart apart with a machette.

 

[Antoniofer]

Most likely that's due whale's heart are bigger than cars, but, assuming that they are made of the same material as human's hearts, they technically as durable.

 

[Schnee_One]

Bump cause **** it

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

From my experience, Death Manipulation that just kills you....simply kills you and I guess bypasses regen for the most part.

Organ stuffs idk.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, I don't see how regen would help you with death manip. Dead things can't regenerate.

 

[Schnee_One]

I mean

How does it kill you?

Because in fiction Death can mean death of the body.

Plus just saying "Die" and killing the organs and you can still regen

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Well, if it specifies that the death manip just like stops your heart, then anyone with good enough regen to come back from that would be able to.

 

[RotofBots]

The Durability Negation page has attacking internal organs as being able to negat durability.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Most Death haxes don't target organs though. They just kill you. Like taking away all life in your body, or something. idk, most verses don't specify. So I cannot answer with absolute certainty.

 

[Schnee_One]

The Durability Negation page has attacking internal organs as being able to negat durability.

I know, I'm asking to what extent

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Pretty sure that actual proper Death Manip doesn't actually do any physical damage. It just stops all life within you. Your cell stops working and being alive, etc. If it does physical damage then it's just...organ manipulation or whatever.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

ALL HAIL THE CRIMSON KING

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Pretty sure that actual proper Death Manip doesn't actually do any physical damage. It just stops all life within you. Your cell stops working and being alive, etc. If it does physical damage then it's just...organ manipulation or whatever.

^ fax B

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

tfw you accidently highlight.....>.>

 

[Schnee_One]

I mean

This is kinda important

 

[Schnee_One]

Pretty sure that actual proper Death Manip doesn't actually do any physical damage. It just stops all life within you. Your cell stops working and being alive, etc. If it does physical damage then it's just...organ manipulation or whatever.

^Makes sense

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I've heard it's a common trope within fiction for internal parts to be much much weaker. That's the case someone made against me when I suggested Jotaro wouldn't be able to kill Kenshiro via crushing his heart.

 

[Schnee_One]

Funny

Kenshiro' fighting style specifically strengthens organs

Now. I do think that even with a tier gap, it can ignore Durability

Homura Akemi in her 7B form, briefly incapacitated a character with 7A+ Durability by setting grenades in her organs

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well they ARE weaker, but if your organs were that much weaker than you, the hits you're supposed to have tanked would have destroyed your organs from the outside just via the shockwaves from the attack. An armor in the form of skin or whatever can only protect so much against things inside your body.

 

[RKGenki]

Well they ARE weaker, but if your organs were that much weaker than you, the hits you're supposed to have tanked would have destroyed your organs from the outside just via the shockwaves from the attack. An armor in the form of skin or whatever can only protect so much against things inside your body.

^This, basically what I said above

 

[Schnee_One]

Well they ARE weaker, but if your organs were that much weaker than you, the hits you're supposed to have tanked would have destroyed your organs from the outside just via the shockwaves from the attack. An armor in the form of skin or whatever can only protect so much against things inside your body.

They are weaker, I can accept that without question

To what extent though is what Im trying to ask

Can say... a High 6C kill a 6B by targeting organs

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Don't think we can accurately calculate this. Unless somewhere were to calculate the durability of a human vs the durability of one's organs or something.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Like depends. If they are punching the organs...likely not. But if they are doing something that causes them to shut down (like Monodramon's bites), then it's durability negation.

 

[Schnee_One]

What does Moondramon do?

If it's Hax like "Your organs shut down" I get

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It's an ability that immediately shuts down all the vital functions of the body.

 

[Schnee_One]

That absolutely works, but it's more Hax then Dura negate

 

[RKGenki]

Your organs shit down

I choked

 

[Schnee_One]

Fixing

 

[Wokistan]

Note that you don't have to even damage the organs to get a kill. If you can even get there, blocking bloodflows or just holding things shut would do the trick as well. Human organs aren't as strong as our durability, but in general it's going to be on a case by case basis. It also depends on the mechanics of attacking the organs anyways. As for death manip, I agree with Saik. Non Godly regenerations shouldn't interfere with deathhax that is not explained further than causing a cessation of life.

 

[Schnee_One]

I'm specifically referring to stuff that attacks organs, like TK, or a sword slash

 

[Wokistan]

Telekinesis on organs and stuff only really needs to shake them around for bad things to happen, regardless of whether or not the organs are damaged. As for a sword slash, Not really sure how you'd hit just an organ with that and not be able to negate its durability in some way regardless. How would you avoid the rest of the body? Do these examples pertain to specific characters or verses?

 

[Schnee_One]

Shalltear Bloodfalle

About TK, you can't shake stuff with superior AP and lifting strength to you

 

[Wokistan]

Your heart is not going to be exerting the sort of lifting strength that puts a character on a sort of level, and that stuff is more dependent on weight. Look at Kharn for example. He's in tiers 5/4, but only weighs about a thousand pounds. Due to this, some of his opponents, like the hulk, can rather easily throw him into space. Kharn's own lifting strength is of no concern here. Idk how Shalltear works so no real help there.