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DC Comics - The Legendary DC Heralds Upgrade

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yeah it should, though whether those decent fights took place in Pre-Crisis or Post-Crisis is another matter to discuss
 
 
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Count me on the agrees if it matters.
Have always questioned the “debunks" for DCs feats, and was even more confused when a couple of Feats from Marvels heralds was more then enough to get the verse upgraded that easily

But, Tier 2 comics heralds is too based.
 
Scottycj256 said:
Unsure on: @Firestorm808, @Vasco, @Hellbeast, @Qawsedf234, @Antvasima, @Adem_Warlock69
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Put me in neutral since i'm arguing in support of some scans and against some.

Nothing's gonna change my mind on Hal Jordan feat of creation of a universe inside his ring as Low 2-C but rather Pocket Reality Manipulation.
 
Scottycj256 said:
updated tally

Agree: @Ehnkr2beboh, @LordTracer, @Starbrand_Fan, @Violatas, @Godernet, @Tipper17, @Liquid_Bigb0ss (?), @FantaRin_The_First, @KLOL506, @Planck69, @Excel616, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @Banandrakk, @Scottycj256 (me), @Matthew_Schroeder @Firestorm808 (Agrees with Rebirth Flash feats), @Stefano4444, @NHTkenshin2
Disagree: @Matthew_Schroeder (on scaling), @Wagy
Neutral: @Planck69 (Regarding scaling issues)
Unsure on: @Firestorm808, @Vasco, @Hellbeast, @Qawsedf234, @Antvasima, @Adem_Warlock69
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Put me on agree for Tier 2, neutral for Tier 3 (only because the Tier 2 feats seem more consistent)
 
I am unsure. I am concerned about the fact that many of these feats range from unclear to completely worthless, which makes me somewhat cautious towards giving a thumbs up towards other feats. I think when big threads like this are made, a greater degree of scrutiny should be applied before including a feat in the post so that others are not put in the position of giving a thumbs down to a dozen feats and making it sound like they're being unfair. It also would help on time because there are so many feats in this post.

I went over the Superman feats in the other thread, but I haven't had the time to assess every feat in this thread. In the Superman feats, there were many instances where I feel that the evidence is very clearly against an extremely high scaling, such as Aztek's explosion which really only killed a small handful of nameless monsters and a couple of buildings, but immediately afterwards Superman was still swarmed by a bunch of them who were outside the blast radius, and the area wasn't damaged that much. Even the chains holding Superman, 100 feet from this "Low 2-C" blast, were undamaged. Clearly not Low 2-C, but it was portrayed that way because of a statement 3 years prior where MMH calls his energy "limitless."

I see a lot of other feats like this that are relying on statements like "infinite power" or other somewhat vague circumstances, and it gives the impression overall that there is a lack of clear and reliable feats through which to achieve this tier. After all, if it were really that solid, we wouldn't be presented with feats like "The Phantom Zone trembles under the weight of this fight" being described as "Superman shook the Phantom Zone with one punch" which frankly is just not what happened.

No ill will or disrespect towards the thread creators, clearly a lot of work was put into this and I believe it was made in good faith, but I am just seeing a lot of feats that I am finding thoroughly unconvincing, and while I haven't researched every single feat in this thread, I am going to say that I disagree until the thread is reworked to prune vague or invalid feats and we can have a more focused discussion on the feats that are actually relevant. It is not productive to include 30+ feats when 25 of them are worthless.
 
 
Hellbeast said:
Yeah I think those work tol

made obviously need to hash out the writing to account for the Varies rating for Superman though
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Just "5-A up to 2-C" would work, superman only varies by Sunlight energy and different books(i don't really see this as a varies ability though).
 
They are debating on the validity of those feats some are rejected,some accepted others still debated on.
 
I don't think Superman needs a 5-A rating anymore cause even at his weakest he can still easily damage other universal heralds
 
Without it, would seem like he always hit at tier 3/2 power and we know he dosen't due to how he always holds back.
 
Vasco said:
Just "5-A up to 2-C" would work, superman only varies by Sunlight energy and different books(i don't really see this as a varies ability though).
Click to expand...
Vasco said:
Through scaling and all are agreed but debate is mostly on High 3-A and Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
Gasper said:
In my opinion they should scale to high 3-A and Low 2-C at best, looking at the consistency?
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Da_Lunge_Fish said:
I don't think Superman needs a 5-A rating anymore cause even at his weakest he can still easily damage other universal heralds
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Scaling comes after the feats discussion. Don't derail.
 
Would "tearing through the fabric of the universe" be universal level, if not done on a universal scale? DC has several feats like that
 
NHTkenshin2 said:
Count me on the agrees if it matters.
Have always questioned the “debunks" for DCs feats, and was even more confused when a couple of Feats from Marvels heralds was more then enough to get the verse upgraded that easily

But, Tier 2 comics heralds is too based.
Click to expand...
yeh i felt like I was the only one on VSBW that thought that three showings of 4-B being the most consistent was bullshit compared to the dozens of showings of at least High 3-A or above
 
What else needs to be done here?
I feel like enough feats have gotten the go-ahead that we can properly upgrade these characters.

Should we now focus on scaling?
 
The Superman and Green Lantern feats are still being discussed in their respective threads.
 
Other
Post Crisis Wonder Woman
  • Wonder Woman withstands and deflects a fireball with infinite power. (Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #21, October 1988)
    • Unsure - Is this hax? Per the comic, WW's bracelets are the key, part of Zeus's Aegis, which came from the Amaltheia beast. At the Gods' direction, the Amazons begin to pray, Menalippe converting these prayers into raw energy for the Gods. As one, the empowered Gods launch a bolt of divine might at Diana, who deflects, transforms, and amplifies it with her bracelets using the Amaltheia properties. Diana used her bracelet's hax to deflect the attack of the enhanced gods. She never felt the initial potential bast force or the final amplified blast force.
  • Wonder Woman has survived lightspeed attacks from Zoom (Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #214, May 2005), with lightspeed in DC being Infinite Mass(JLA Vol. 1. #3, March 1997)
    • Unsure
      • The most recent precedent at the time regarding punching at light speed is with the force of a white dwarf. Per Flash, he’s never used this level of force before. | The Flash Vol 2 #148, May 1999
        • Flash didn't hit with infinite mass back in 1997
      • Later the environmental effects of speedsters traveling at true lightspeed lead to a singularity are established. Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds Vol 1 #3 April 2009
      • Can we say that something hit with the relativistic force of infinite mass if there aren't any signs or environmental effects?
  • A battle between Diana and Cassie makes it seem like the energies of the Universe are erupting and will tear the foundations of reality(Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #156, May 2000)
    • Unsure - That's not Diana or Cassie. That was Amazon Artemis and Devas. Not sure how she got a Godwave sword or if her durability scales to it. Deva did defeat Artemis rather easily.
  • Wonder Woman has defeated Circe, with Circe only going as far as to call Diana her equal(Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #176, January 2002)
    • Circe was consistently stated to be an urgent threat to the entire Universe(War of the Gods Vol. 1 #4, December 1991)
    • with it later being stated she nearly destroyed the Universe (Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #62, February 1992)
    • Disagree - It wasn't the spell that would directly threaten the universe. It was directly aimed to kill Queen Hypolita, who was trying to revive Diana. This in turn would change the course of the War and threaten the universe. It just ended up killing a follower instead. Circe nearly destroyed the universe through her manipulations, not pure power.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Can we say that something hit with the relativistic force of infinite mass if there aren't any signs or environmental effects?
Click to expand...
A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.
Click to expand...
The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I feel you guys don't read your tiering system or you simply forget how things are done.
 
Vasco said:
Sometimes I feel you guys don't read your tiering system or you simply forget how things are done.
Click to expand...
Again, I refer to the most recent instance of a "lightspeed" attack by Wally at the time of that Zoom comic. It wasn't infinite mass. What supports that Zoom's one is?
 
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