DBZ Namek Arc upgrades.

[Jobbo]

Assuming we still accept Kaioken as a multiplier, Namek Goku should be able to reach 5-A and FTL speeds based on this statement:


Chapter: 270 (DBZ 76), P11.1-4 Context: Goku has turned the gravity back down to 1g.
Goku: "Hwoo!!! I…I feel so light… …It's like I'm not even here!!! Hoo hoo hoo!!! I'm light, I'm light! And strong, strong! Like this, I can definitely withstand about a 10-fold Kaio-Ken!"


First of all, Attack Potency: Saiyan Arc Piccolo's moonbust was calculated at about 70 Zettatons. Kaioken x4 Goku would then be at least 280 ZT since he's far stronger than Piccolo in base. Then Namek Arc Goku who is far superior to Kaioken x4 Goku would reach at least 2.8 YT with Kaioken x10 which is 5-A.


Then, speed: Piccolo's moonbust calc also puts his speed at 14.3% c at minimum. Kaioken x4 would reach about 57% or Relativistic+ at minimum. Kaioken x10 Namek Goku then would be at least 5.7x FTL.


So all characters who scale above Namek Goku should get upgraded to FTL speed, potentially FTL+


My basis for using Kaioken as a multiplier is this part of his page: Statistics Amplification (Goku can greatly enhance his capabilities with Kaio-ken, by potentially up to twenty times)

 

[Jobbo]

Bump.

 

[Duhhhhhh1]

Seems good to me

 

[Megamangohan]

agree

 

[Therefir]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ys_Planet_Vegeta_Revised#WikiaArticleComments

What happened with this?

 

[Jobbo]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ys_Planet_Vegeta_Revised#WikiaArticleComments
What happened with this?

Seems a calc group discussion was supposed to be created, someone should get on that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

There's many things wrong with this, the first being that Piccolo's moon bust is only 7% SoL.

 

[Dark649]

Agree with Howard, also the discussed calc needs to be redone since was rejected, so it is not usable.

 

[Jobbo]

Even half the value is still FTL, though.

 

[Jobbo]

Plus there's also the fact that he's stated to be able to fire beams at relativistic speeds on his profile, and that means they're above 10% SoL according to the wiki's system.

 

[Jobbo]

Wait, the 14.3% SoL statement was definitely right considering the high end timeframe was used, ie: 8.92s which is actually kind of a low end since it assumes Piccolo's blast took that entire timeframe to get to the moon when we obviously see the moon blowing up.

 

[Jobbo]

I've yet to hear what the many things wrong with this are. I've checked the calc repeatedly and my results seem completely correct. You can't just say it's wrong without providing any reasons.

 

[Dark649]

I've yet to hear what the many things wrong with this are. I've checked the calc repeatedly and my results seem completely correct. You can't just say it's wrong without providing any reasons.

You have little knowledge about calcs, calc members responded that there are problems in that calc and i trust them.

 

[Therefir]

Piccolo's moon bust have been recalced at 14.3597099% SoL.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's news to me...

Still don't see how the highest speed feat in Z coming from the weakest character in Z isn't an outlier, but whatever.

 

[Jobbo]

You have little knowledge about calcs, calc members responded that there are problems in that calc and i trust them.

This seems like an extreme appeal to authority to me. Besides, it's not like these calculations are at all complex, they're just multiplications based on the moonbust calc.

 

[Dark649]

I agree with the Darkanine Moonbust calc, but not the DarkDragon Frieza one.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

They're also the reason we're thinking of ditching using stat boosts for tiers as a whole, because getting 5-A from a nigh baseline 5-B calc is absurd. To this day, DB is the only franchise that has done this and it stuck (Masadaverse and Digimon did it before, but they both got downgraded)

 

[Jobbo]

I've only used the moonbust calc here, though. I've only multiplied the values by x4 and then x10 for the Kaioken. There's no other calculations at play here.

 

[The_Everlasting]

They're also the reason we're thinking of ditching using stat boosts for tiers as a whole, because getting 5-A from a nigh baseline 5-B calc is absurd.

I know a verse where a character can become 4-B by scaling from 5-Bs.

Comparatively this is nothing, lol.

 

[Therefir]

Jin Mo-Ri 250000x power boost was accepted.

 

[Jobbo]

They're also the reason we're thinking of ditching using stat boosts for tiers as a whole, because getting 5-A from a nigh baseline 5-B calc is absurd. To this day, DB is the only franchise that has done this and it stuck (Masadaverse and Digimon did it before, but they both got downgraded)

But First Form Frieza is at the very upper end of High 5-A, borderline Tier 4.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Jin Mo-Ri 250000x power boost was accepted.

And I think that's even more asinine than this. I've stated that many many times.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

My thing is if that is accepted then 2 things should happen.

-This multiplier stuff should be okay to work with.

-That other multiplier should be taken off.

If that multiplier was accepted, then no matter how one feels about it, this one should as well.

I'm neutral btw.

 

[Jobbo]

Just so we're all clear on this, this has nothing to do with that Frieza calc, that's an entirely separate matter.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I do agree with Jobbo there. The Frieza calc is unrelated.

 

[Dark649]

If that multiplier was accepted, then no matter how one feels about it, this one should as well.

The kaioken multipliers and powerscaling [watch video] was deemed to be controversial since the thread i made since it would end up causing:

- Relativistic+ Kaioken x4 Goku, which would scale to most Ginyu Force and etc.

- FTL 5-A Kaioken x10 Ginyu Saga Goku or High 5-A First Fruit Turles.

- FTL to MFTL 4-C Final Frieza, which could become High 4-C at 100%.

 

[Jobbo]

I don't see why the 5-A thing would be controversial when First Form Frieza is High 5-A and after a single Zenkai Goku is able to match 4-C Frieza.

 

[Jobbo]

So, can we reach some sort of consensus?

 

[Dark649]

This thread will be likely rejected due the past discussion about dbz multipliers in general being controversial.

 

[Akreious]

I thought th3 common consensus was Kaioken is a linear multiplier. How is that controversial

 

[Dark649]

It's due the thread i once made.

 

[Warren_Valion]

This thread seems awfully familiar. . .

 

[Ssr4vegito]

.

 

[PaChi2]

Neutral here.

 

[Jobbo]

Bump.