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A lot of the wiki pages on the series are very, wrong, outdated, and incomplete. Do I make a thread for each issue or can I stuff all the revisions in this thread?
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Darkstalkers Revision
- Thread starter Batsuichimonji
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Well if its for one verse, try to do it in your op
if its for multiple verses then do seperate revisions
if its for multiple verses then do seperate revisions
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- #3
Sorry, what is my "op"?
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The opening message of the thread.Batsuichimonji said:
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So put all the Darkstalkers revisions in the op?
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You can just say the whole verse, not nessecerily all their names. Unless you want to be specific, then yes i suppose so.Batsuichimonji said:
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What is wrong about the Darkstalkers pages?
I'd like to know, for I have played both Darkstalkers games, read the US Comics and know all the anime feats.
I'd like to know, for I have played both Darkstalkers games, read the US Comics and know all the anime feats.
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1. Belial is ridiculously superior to Jedah.
2. Belial did not drain himself like it implies on the wiki. He is one with the very fabric of the dimension he sits in. He gravely wounded himself by ripping a whole into the dimension with raw power.
3. Makai is larger than the land mass (Mataraiku) that has been mistaken for the entirety of the dimension. Evidence points to Makai being a demonic overlay of the human verse. Simillar to Karas' Makai.
4. The wiki makes no mention that 100% of Jedah's showings come from him in near-death states. All his feats are casual, every single one of them.
5. Jedah and Demitri's durabilities are virtually unfathomable or, at the very least, they can tank forces excess of a hypermassive blackhole. That's Demitri's durability, Jedah's beyond even that.
5. Pyron has an implied max on the wiki. Pyron has never been seen at his max, ever.
6. Pyron has implied limitations on his small form. Those limitations are virtually unknown. His supers (in his small form) in the game have him summoning shrunken stars and galaxies on the battlefield. Small Pyron is easily galaxy level at the very least (he whips out exploding galaxies as special moves).
2. Belial did not drain himself like it implies on the wiki. He is one with the very fabric of the dimension he sits in. He gravely wounded himself by ripping a whole into the dimension with raw power.
3. Makai is larger than the land mass (Mataraiku) that has been mistaken for the entirety of the dimension. Evidence points to Makai being a demonic overlay of the human verse. Simillar to Karas' Makai.
4. The wiki makes no mention that 100% of Jedah's showings come from him in near-death states. All his feats are casual, every single one of them.
5. Jedah and Demitri's durabilities are virtually unfathomable or, at the very least, they can tank forces excess of a hypermassive blackhole. That's Demitri's durability, Jedah's beyond even that.
5. Pyron has an implied max on the wiki. Pyron has never been seen at his max, ever.
6. Pyron has implied limitations on his small form. Those limitations are virtually unknown. His supers (in his small form) in the game have him summoning shrunken stars and galaxies on the battlefield. Small Pyron is easily galaxy level at the very least (he whips out exploding galaxies as special moves).
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1. So what?
2. The text does make it clear that Belial's powers slowly faded over time, specially in the comic.
3. Yes, Makai is it's own universe, but Jedah didn't destroy the dimension / universe, but only the land mass of the demon world.
4. Evidence for Jedah's High 5-A feat being done when he was in a near-death state?
5. "Virtually infatomable" means nothing. Also, where is this Black Hole feat?
6. Just because a character has no clear limits shown, doesn't mean he should be a higher tier.
7. Images of galaxies with attacks =/= actual galaxies.
2. The text does make it clear that Belial's powers slowly faded over time, specially in the comic.
3. Yes, Makai is it's own universe, but Jedah didn't destroy the dimension / universe, but only the land mass of the demon world.
4. Evidence for Jedah's High 5-A feat being done when he was in a near-death state?
5. "Virtually infatomable" means nothing. Also, where is this Black Hole feat?
6. Just because a character has no clear limits shown, doesn't mean he should be a higher tier.
7. Images of galaxies with attacks =/= actual galaxies.
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- #10
1.)I was told that here, he is listed as weaker than Jedah. That's wrong.
2.)The source books stated his power slowly faded becuas he is Makai and damaging the spacetime fabric of it wounded himself.
3.)Jedah erased the dimension. There is nothing left but absolute blackness in Jedah's ending. It should also be noted that not all of Makai's demons live on the land mass. Sourcebooks and endings state that there are demons behind the air wall, in some under dimension realated to Makai, and in the endless ocean that surrounds the land mass. Jedah targeted everyone. There as no sea, no air wall, just nothingness; he completed the 1st half of his plan.
4.)Jedah has never been at full power. The very game itself states Jedah is too weak after his revival to carry out his plans on his own and need time to recover.
5.)Belial's attack that bannished Demitri was powerful enough to rip through space time with sheer force. Only black holes have enough force to damage space time with raw power and even then, blackholes create dents in space time, not just rip through it.
6.)A character with a greater form that's only been demonstrated outside of canon, should never be put in a vs fight or implied to bet at any level, period. You can't put him in a tier.
7.)I will post scans and links soon. Right now I am scanning all the source books and uploading the relevant material.
2.)The source books stated his power slowly faded becuas he is Makai and damaging the spacetime fabric of it wounded himself.
3.)Jedah erased the dimension. There is nothing left but absolute blackness in Jedah's ending. It should also be noted that not all of Makai's demons live on the land mass. Sourcebooks and endings state that there are demons behind the air wall, in some under dimension realated to Makai, and in the endless ocean that surrounds the land mass. Jedah targeted everyone. There as no sea, no air wall, just nothingness; he completed the 1st half of his plan.
4.)Jedah has never been at full power. The very game itself states Jedah is too weak after his revival to carry out his plans on his own and need time to recover.
5.)Belial's attack that bannished Demitri was powerful enough to rip through space time with sheer force. Only black holes have enough force to damage space time with raw power and even then, blackholes create dents in space time, not just rip through it.
6.)A character with a greater form that's only been demonstrated outside of canon, should never be put in a vs fight or implied to bet at any level, period. You can't put him in a tier.
7.)I will post scans and links soon. Right now I am scanning all the source books and uploading the relevant material.
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Also, Black Hole feats in fictio tend to be unquantifiable.
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- #12
There was actually no blackhole involved. The attack was just so powerful, it's truly the only thing you can compare it to. It wasn't a black hole, he just ripped space time like toilet papper and a character survived it, barely.
The attack was even describe as highly compressed energy that is beyond all comprehesion,
The attack was even describe as highly compressed energy that is beyond all comprehesion,
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It does seem to be; but this is the only attack that was said to be able to kill Jedah. This was specifically stated to be powerful enough to kill him if done to maximum effect.
What's even worse, the entire spacetime shredding event was the attack being used at literal warning shot level. The attack is kind of important in terms of the story.
What's even worse, the entire spacetime shredding event was the attack being used at literal warning shot level. The attack is kind of important in terms of the story.
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I am with Antvasima that this all seems speculative and unquantifiable, and misinterpreting lack of clear no limits for no clear feats.
I am too tired to continue for the moment, though.
I am too tired to continue for the moment, though.
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Speculative? No. I'm literally quoting information from official sources. Unquantifiable? More than likely. It's better to have unusable, but correct inforrmation than inaccurate information.
I'm not saying these characters have no limits, I'm simply stating that their limits are so far above what is shown, that you can't even guess. The entire series ended on a cliffhanger. I think it would be best to hold off on VS matches with Darkstalkers until a conclusion is reached, but that still doesn't mean the pages should be left as inaccurate as they are.
I'm not saying these characters have no limits, I'm simply stating that their limits are so far above what is shown, that you can't even guess. The entire series ended on a cliffhanger. I think it would be best to hold off on VS matches with Darkstalkers until a conclusion is reached, but that still doesn't mean the pages should be left as inaccurate as they are.
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Innaurate?
The characters are scaled from what is pretty much one of the greatest feats in the games.
I read the Darkstalkers character profiles you are quoting from, I often even use them as the character summaries.
Nothing indicates that Jedah was in a near-death state during the game, True Form Pyron has no feats other than the orbital path of 400,000 Light Years and the "Black Hole" feats are unquantifiable and unrealiable.
I'm using the most logical information we have.
The characters are scaled from what is pretty much one of the greatest feats in the games.
I read the Darkstalkers character profiles you are quoting from, I often even use them as the character summaries.
Nothing indicates that Jedah was in a near-death state during the game, True Form Pyron has no feats other than the orbital path of 400,000 Light Years and the "Black Hole" feats are unquantifiable and unrealiable.
I'm using the most logical information we have.
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Don't get me wrong, what is on the wiki is accurate, for the most part, there are just a few things that need to be updated now that there is new material available. Prime example, Jedah not being at full power during the game.
Translation
"Jedah, the master of the Dohma family - The Distressed Lord of Death
The youngest out of the three High nobles.....though he is still over 6000
years old. His liquid body allows him to change into any shape he chooses. He
is able to absorb the souls of others and can instantly increase his ow
powers.
He was always distressed about the future of Makai. He believes that if
Makai left to rule by Belial, it would grow old and begin to decay. Belial
would most likely say that that is the destiny and life. To Jedah, Belial was
being who should not exist. He had always looked for the opportunity to kill
Belial, and waited for the right time to strike.
After the death of Galnan, Jedah had a young confidant named Ozom. Simply
put, he was a gourmet. The reason he came under Jedah was to be able to eat
delicious souls. As a noble, his skills were second class, but his ability to
deceive others were first class. He was a genius in using others. He advised
Jedah about using the gate of Makai. Jedah, being confident in his ability to
absorb souls, agreed to this. He ordered Ozom to break a part of the seal to
open the gate more. When Ozom arrived at the gates, he realized that enormous
powers lied within the gates.
"Even Jedah would destroy himself if absorbs all this power at once."
He see's this as his chance to take over the throne and tells Jedah a lie.
"Due to the little power that came out, I must destroy all the seals....."
After destroying the seals, he ran off to the far reaches of Makai.
He believed that the destruction of Jedah means his rise in power. He also
planned to absorb the left over powers from the incident. This plot had
succeeded. Though Jedah's absorbing powers were greater than Ozom predicted, he
was destroyed due to the sheer amount of powers. Ozom gathered the left over
powers and stored it in the Dohma castle. This is how Ozom became the new
master of the Dohma family. The birth of Emperor Ozom.
100 years later....Jedah was revived in Makai. He felt distressed towards
the crazed Makai, nobles fighting each other and spilling blood. Instead of
anger, he felt pity towards Ozom, who had betrayed him. Jedah had already made
up his mind. His complete revival and the cleansing of all souls. For this, a
new stage was necessary. A new dimension, the Majigen.
Jedah arrived at Dohma castle and saw Ozom and laid out his hand. Although
his powers were not yet completely restored, he had enough power to remove
Ozom. Ozom had become a spineless gourmet. Ozom's eye's had fear in them. Jedah
quietly whispers,
"Ozom....I am sorry, but please lend me your powers. Your soul would become the
foundation of Majigen and will help the future of Makai."
The Dohma castle was taken into the dark space along with Ozom. This was the
beginning of his salvation."
http://www.gamefaqs.com/arcade/583724-vampire-savior-the-lord-of-vampire/faqs/25007
Note the bolded, Jedah was weakened. More to come soon.
Translation
"Jedah, the master of the Dohma family - The Distressed Lord of Death
The youngest out of the three High nobles.....though he is still over 6000
years old. His liquid body allows him to change into any shape he chooses. He
is able to absorb the souls of others and can instantly increase his ow
powers.
He was always distressed about the future of Makai. He believes that if
Makai left to rule by Belial, it would grow old and begin to decay. Belial
would most likely say that that is the destiny and life. To Jedah, Belial was
being who should not exist. He had always looked for the opportunity to kill
Belial, and waited for the right time to strike.
After the death of Galnan, Jedah had a young confidant named Ozom. Simply
put, he was a gourmet. The reason he came under Jedah was to be able to eat
delicious souls. As a noble, his skills were second class, but his ability to
deceive others were first class. He was a genius in using others. He advised
Jedah about using the gate of Makai. Jedah, being confident in his ability to
absorb souls, agreed to this. He ordered Ozom to break a part of the seal to
open the gate more. When Ozom arrived at the gates, he realized that enormous
powers lied within the gates.
"Even Jedah would destroy himself if absorbs all this power at once."
He see's this as his chance to take over the throne and tells Jedah a lie.
"Due to the little power that came out, I must destroy all the seals....."
After destroying the seals, he ran off to the far reaches of Makai.
He believed that the destruction of Jedah means his rise in power. He also
planned to absorb the left over powers from the incident. This plot had
succeeded. Though Jedah's absorbing powers were greater than Ozom predicted, he
was destroyed due to the sheer amount of powers. Ozom gathered the left over
powers and stored it in the Dohma castle. This is how Ozom became the new
master of the Dohma family. The birth of Emperor Ozom.
100 years later....Jedah was revived in Makai. He felt distressed towards
the crazed Makai, nobles fighting each other and spilling blood. Instead of
anger, he felt pity towards Ozom, who had betrayed him. Jedah had already made
up his mind. His complete revival and the cleansing of all souls. For this, a
new stage was necessary. A new dimension, the Majigen.
Jedah arrived at Dohma castle and saw Ozom and laid out his hand. Although
his powers were not yet completely restored, he had enough power to remove
Ozom. Ozom had become a spineless gourmet. Ozom's eye's had fear in them. Jedah
quietly whispers,
"Ozom....I am sorry, but please lend me your powers. Your soul would become the
foundation of Majigen and will help the future of Makai."
The Dohma castle was taken into the dark space along with Ozom. This was the
beginning of his salvation."
http://www.gamefaqs.com/arcade/583724-vampire-savior-the-lord-of-vampire/faqs/25007
Note the bolded, Jedah was weakened. More to come soon.
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He was weakened when he first awakened, not after absorbing Ozomu's soul.
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- #21
He never absorbed Ozom, he simply turned his soul into a dimension.
An S+ demon is stronger than several hundred A demons. An S class demon which Jedah is, should fodderize a dozen B class demons, which is what the Darkstalkers cast is. Jedah could not oneshot the cast in his current state, thus the elaborate plan. Not to mention, Jedah killed Ozom during the game, see L.Raptors story. There wasn't even enough time for Jedah to recuperate, Demitri needed 50 yeas just to regain 80% of his power.
An S+ demon is stronger than several hundred A demons. An S class demon which Jedah is, should fodderize a dozen B class demons, which is what the Darkstalkers cast is. Jedah could not oneshot the cast in his current state, thus the elaborate plan. Not to mention, Jedah killed Ozom during the game, see L.Raptors story. There wasn't even enough time for Jedah to recuperate, Demitri needed 50 yeas just to regain 80% of his power.
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Full power Jedah would not one shot Morrigan, who is also an S class Demon, and one of the strongest ever.
Jedah being weakened does not warrant him a higher tier.
Jedah being weakened does not warrant him a higher tier.
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- #23
Morrigan is not S class during the game, only when fused with Lilith as a tiny baby and likely higher when fused as an adult. Jedah at full power would sneeze and kill Morrigan before the end of Vampire Savior. Hell, Demitri absorbed Pyron and was crushed by Jedah in a fist fight.
And you are arguing with a ghost. I never demanded Jedah be in a higher tier. Jedah shouldn't be in a tier since no one has a clue on how strong he is at 100% and some must agree since his page has unknowns all over it, including his tier; which is correct.
No one knows, that's what usually happens in cliffhangers.
Also Pyron summoning stars and galaxies http://www.fightersgeneration.com/np7/char/gifs/pyron/attacks/pyron-cfe-super.gif
2nd paragraph
http://imgur.com/FtgG4N4
And you are arguing with a ghost. I never demanded Jedah be in a higher tier. Jedah shouldn't be in a tier since no one has a clue on how strong he is at 100% and some must agree since his page has unknowns all over it, including his tier; which is correct.
No one knows, that's what usually happens in cliffhangers.
Also Pyron summoning stars and galaxies http://www.fightersgeneration.com/np7/char/gifs/pyron/attacks/pyron-cfe-super.gif
2nd paragraph
http://imgur.com/FtgG4N4
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Why the hell would base Morrigan, who holds 1/3rd of the power of one of the strongest S Class demons to ever be born, not be an S Class Demon?
Images of Stars =/= Actual Stars
Images of Stars =/= Actual Stars
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Perhaps, I don't really see the point in prolonging this.
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