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Dark Souls Tier 4 Revision

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We usually just use lore to scale characters that cause scaling issues. Also, I think Midir could scale to late game Ashen since he's hopped up on the Dark, and has been for thousands of years. He should be comparable to Gael.
 
I'd say just ignore linear boss scaling. So, bosses after Abyss Watchers don't innately scale to the Abyss Watchers. So yeah, lore works.

As for Midir... eh. We could slap a possibly on him, but we don't have a lot of info other than that he staved off the dark from the Ringed City until the Ashen One showed up.
 
I think it's more of a Likely but Possibly works too. As for the Bosses, that makes the ones after all three of the other Lords of Cinder a little bit weird considering you beat two Lords pretty much back to back and then run into The Dancer and Dragonslayer Armor (which apparently somehow survived the Ashen One) then Lorian and Lothric. I can see why Linear Scaling doesn't work, it's just really weird to me.
 
Welcome to any Soulsborne game where the scaling doesn't care about your feelings.

The only remotely logical scaling in a Soulsborne game is Sekiro, and that's only because it's a story driven game.
 
4-B has to go indeed.

Mr._Bambu said:
Here's my suggestions.

  • Ashen One, Gael, and Soul of Cinder remain as they are, though bumping them down to "At least 4-C, likely High 4-C" would be favorable- I doubt 4-B's legitimacy.
  • Nito and Izalith become 4-C
  • Four Kings and Seath all gain "possibly 4-C" for bearing a fragment of Gwyn's Soul.
  • Manus gains "likely 4-C" via backscaling from Nashandra.
Click to expand...
This makes sense to me.
 
Does the Nameless King qualify for a possibly? He's said to have inherited Gwyn's sunlight/lightning/light, etc and should have a higher claim to 4c than Seathe or The Four Kings, who only inherited fragmente of Gwyn's soul
 
Tyranno223 said:
Does the Nameless King qualify for a possibly? He's said to have inherited Gwyn's sunlight/lightning/light, etc and should have a higher claim to 4c than Seathe or The Four Kings, who only inherited fragmente of Gwyn's soul
Click to expand...
He was also basically Disowned and Erased from History for siding with the Dragons, so I doubt Gwyn would let him keep any of his Inheritance.
 
Tyranno223 said:
Does the Nameless King qualify for a possibly? He's said to have inherited Gwyn's sunlight/lightning/light, etc and should have a higher claim to 4c than Seathe or The Four Kings, who only inherited fragmente of Gwyn's soul
Click to expand...
Souls are equatable to strength in the verse. Thus it's extremely important that Seathe and Four Kings got a shard of Gwyn's Soul- we just dunno how big that shard was. As for Nameless... I don't think so, no.
 
we could just say that lords of cinder are at 6-C to low 6-B after they linked the flame and lost most of their power that would actually solve most scaling issues in ds 3
 
That wouldn't make much sense since their souls were required to fight the Soul of Cinder. Even in DS2, Emerald Herald made it clear that you need a stronger soul to successfully link the fire.

I wholly agree with yeeting 4-B tho.
 
Sir_sun_man said:
we could just say that lords of cinder are at 6-C to low 6-B after they linked the flame and lost most of their power that would actually solve most scaling issues in ds 3
Click to expand...
This would create innumerable problems in lore though? And makes zero sense whatsoever? Their souls are still strong enough to link the First Flame. They were literally called to do just that.
 
well even lore wise it was more so to prolong the inevitable
hell would you say that ludleth is still 4C after linking the flame twice? his soul is still required for the ashen one to relink the flame.
hell him linking the flame by himself created the limbo time space that is the ds3 fire linkshrine and it more then clear that him linking the flame didn't do the job proporly(otherwise there would be no point in brining all the lords back) and not to mention that all of them were required to relink the flame, otherwise one lord of cinder such as say ludleth who was willing to do so would be enough to relink the flame but he clearly wasn't enough
 
Sweats in 4-C Ludleth profile in sandbox
 
well prime ludleth is defenitly 4-C as is the soul beast that he got his power from but that one is a mystery
but lets be honest here ludleth after the second linking is at best 6-C to low 6-B he is reduced to shards of what he was
but honestly im fine with 3 of the 5 lords of cinder being 4-C
i just don't see the abyss watchers ( a mid game boss unless we wana remake the ashen ones profile and say he is 4-C mid game and at least 4-C likely high 4C by end game(which actually that i think about it solves the scaling issue)) or ludleth being 4-C in as their burnt husk selves
 
I quite doubt that Ludleth is merely 6-C if he was 1/5th the power required to link the fire. In fact, he is only weak at face value, we have no idea how powerful he actually is since he cut his own legs to stop himself from running away from his duty.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
I quite doubt that Ludleth is merely 6-C if he was 1/5th the power required to link the fire. In fact, he is only weak at face value, we have no idea how powerful he actually is since he cut his own legs to stop himself from running away from his duty.
Click to expand...
well true but i highly dought that he is a full blown 4-C after linking the flame not once but twice
and we clearly see that the second time it bearly gave us the player enough time to actually get all the lords(as we can see near the end that flame is starting to fizzle out once more) maybe low 4-C maybe even less
 
Well, I was speculating that DS3 LoCs are Low 4-C since combined, they would stack up to SoC.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Well, I was speculating that DS3 LoCs are Low 4-C since combined, they would stack up to SoC.
Click to expand...
i honestly don't think they do
yes we require their "flame" not even their souls(as we get those upon killing them) to be able to link the flame(as the ashen ones are shitty fuel and we need their embers their "flame" to be able to link it) but even if it was the combination of the 5 it would be mostly composed of lothric and the ashen one as lothric hasn't linked the flame and thus is at his full power(flat out 4-C) and ashen one who was powerful enough to kill him and the other lords are not quite at that level(since you know they are burnt husks of themselves)
 
Ludleth and WolfsBlood!Abyss Watcher are both 4-C, irrefutably. The fact that it biffs up scaling and our impression of these characters means very little. Lore outweighs game progression.

With that said, I'd suspect the first stage of Abyss Watchers are lower than Low 4-C, though I don't know by how much.
 
it would make sense for them to be 6-C, possibly Low 6-B for the first stage, since single Abyss Watchers can be killed by the Farron Followers
 
Perhaps, yeah. It isn't a huge deal to me, but I can see the sense in that.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Ludleth and WolfsBlood!Abyss Watcher are both 4-C, irrefutably. The fact that it biffs up scaling and our impression of these characters means very little. Lore outweighs game progression.

With that said, I'd suspect the first stage of Abyss Watchers are lower than Low 4-C, though I don't know by how much.
Click to expand...
ok yeah that makes sense
 
Sorry, I forgot about this. I believe the consensus is that 4-B is to be removed in favour of High 4-C, right? That was the universally agreed upon take?
 
  • Ashen One, Gael, and Soul of Cinder are bumped down to "At least 4-C, likely High 4-C"
  • Nito and Izalith become 4-C via having souls comaprable to Gwyn's
  • Four Kings and Seath all gain "possibly 4-C" for bearing a fragment of Gwyn's Soul.
  • Manus gains "likely 4-C" via backscaling from Nashandra.
 
Okay. As long as they agree, that is probably fine to apply.
 
Well, I obviously do not have the time or knowledge to properly do so.

Is some knowledgeable member who knows how to edit properly willing to handle it?
 
Please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made, and extensive cleanup work will not be necessary.

If you change the statistics for any characters, also remember to update the tier categories at the bottoms of the profile pages.
 
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