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So, this blog seems to be the main support for the current speed ratings, based off the idea that Ghost Rays are light. Something I disagree with.

"Season 2 episode 19 "Double Cross My Heart". In this episode, Danny fires a ball of ectoplasm that explodes into an intense bright light."

A "fireball that explodes" doesn't line up with the requirement of traveling in a straight line.

And a explotion is a big contradiction for something to be considered light-speed, because light is not something that can be a shockwave that push things afar via pressure like your every day explotion.

Exploding into bright light is not proof either, there are several things that emit light; plasma, fluorescent substances, heated metals, and you know, several explotions.

"Ghost energy is intangible by default but can make their attack physical.

Season 1 episode 4 titled "Attack of the Killer Garage Sale". In this episode, the energy blasts from Technus phases through a wall.

Season 3 episode 9 titled "Frightmare". In this episode, Danny fires a ghost ray that phases through the floor."

None of this is evidence.

Light is not intangible in the same way as someone like Vision goes intangible, you can block the light of a flashlight with your hand and it won't pass through it. Light can go through either transparent or really thin materials, but it doesn't move between walls or floors. This is not proof but just the ghost's intangible abilities.

"A Ghost Ray has never changed in speed."

Some of the videos directly show that ghost rays move at different speeds, the beam from Technus took seconds to cover a room, while the one that blasted Nocturn covered a greater distance in less time (Not only that but the beams pushed the characters, which is not part of light).

"Season 2 episode 7 titled "Fenton Menace". In this episode, Danny sees a mirror and fires his Ghost Ray, which reflects off of it."

The only good supporting thing is this, and maybe Butch's words to an small extend, but the rest of the reasons can be summarized as "It produces light therefor is light-speed"

Which as I stated before, being a source of light doesn't equal being of said speed.

I'm not any expert of the verse, my main complain are several justifications of the blog, so there might be better, more accurate showcases of SoL that can be added as a replacement, but until then there is more proof against light-speed ghost rays than with it.
 
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I think I agree with you here, but I also want to see if there's any other arguments/reasoning/showcases that work
 
Adding on to this a bit:

"This implies that if the monster has sunglasses, the beam would have had no affect because sunglasses can protect your eyes from light. It wouldn't make sense for Danny to suggest this action if the Ghost Ray would have blown threw them."

The presence of this is quite strange to me. The blog later link to scans suggesting otherwise, as they show the blasts having physical force to them. Here is one, here is another. These show the blasts throwing around danny and some big ghost guy. A blast capable of launching a human like that isn't exactly going to yield to sunglasses.

I don't think the things with the shadow are necessarily strong enough evidence either. The beams clearly emit light, given they, well, glow, but that doesn't mean they themselves are light. A flamethrower would similarly still be a light source without being a laser beam.

As for this scan, let's note that the illumination provided doesn't actually match up with the particle effect. They're not bathed in his beam attack, he just makes his hand glow to brighten the room. This strengthens the idea that his powers are just luminescent as opposed to being rays of light.

This one is just weird. You've first got that he fires off some sort of explosive projectile, which is not how light works, but then we see rays move not instantaneously compared to the speeds of these hovercraft. Let's note that these hovercraft have no cockpicts, no doors, nothing. Their rider is not protected from exposure in any other way. If they were to be anywhere near the speed of light, that would be ludicrously dangerous for the people riding these entirely open hovercraft. It would also imply relativistic reactions for what's ostensibly a bunch of random people. That seems like a rather tough pill to swallow, making baseline humans like tier 7 and rel. You'd need some pretty strong proof for that to not be outlier'd to oblivion.

"It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans

Ghost energy is intangible by default but can make their attack physical."


This isn't a very good rebuttal. Light isn't intangible in the sense that it phases through walls. Quite the opposite, actually. Even fluids will block light, which is why the ocean is so dark. Other types of radiation can permeate matter, but not all radiation travels at the same speed as light.
 
I would like to reply to the above comments but I really don't have the energy and regardless of what I say it wouldn't change anything.

If they don't qualify for lightspeed then they don't qualify and I'll remove the blog and calcs related to it. However in regards to Wok's comment about the "normal humans" stuff, those humans have feats that make them well above being normal humans so that argument is bad.

In regards to the intangible argument, the Lightspeed page in no way explained what it it meant by "intangible". That needs to be elaborated on as I assumed it was just straight up intangible.
 
"So, this blog seems to be the main support for the current speed ratings, based off the idea that Ghost Rays are light. Something I disagree with"

I'd like to point out that the Lightspeed Ghost Ray was not the main supporting argument for Danny Phantom's current speed justifications. We accepted FTL Danny Phantom before updating their ratings with the Ghost Ray stuff. Right now, the Ghost Ray is used in two calcs, one being Relativistic and the other being Low-End FTL. Removing them won't change the ratings, just the description.
 
Sure the light speed page needs to be updated, it seems most of the edits were done four years ago.

But about for the Ghost Ray, it definetly the current main support for SoL, as the verse page only show three speed calcs, one for travel speed and two relying on the idea of SoL Ghost Rays.

If the blog is invalidated, so are the two calcs, making the FTL travel feat a bit outlier-istic as by what it seems is the only speed calc near this caliber in a entire series that probably has way lower, but more consistent speed feats.
 
But about for the Ghost Ray, it definetly the current main support for SoL, as the verse page only show three speed calcs, one for travel speed and two relying on the idea of SoL Ghost Rays.

If the blog is invalidated, so are the two calcs, making the FTL travel feat a bit outlier-istic as by what it seems is the only speed calc near this caliber in a entire series that probably has way lower, but more consistent speed feats.
No it's not.

I already told you FTL was accepted before that specific Ghost Ray stuff was applied to the verse. Danny's FTL travel feat (which is low-balled) was done multiple times by himself and other could do it as well which makes it consistent. Not to mention he's exactly 100 times slower than Pariah Dark who preformed this feat which would be Massively FTL to Massively FTL+ (However I closed that thread because you made this one). This also doesn't take into account the fact that ghosts can easily keep up with the Specter Speeder no problem which has a feat of traveling from Saturn to Earth in a short time-frame.

So I repeat, lightspeed Ghost Rays were not the main thing supporting Danny Phantom being FTL. Also, there are no "consistent" lower feats in Danny Phantom, there are 3 lower feats and I debunked all 3 and even then each would put him at different speeds all together so it's blatantly clear the writers don't give a damn about consistency and put other feats in that far exceed what they thought they put.

I'm fine with removing the Ghost Ray stuff but it wouldn't effect the ratings.
 
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Travel wouldn't necessarily equate to combat/reactions, though. He is flying, after all.

You're gonna need a lot of feats to make tier 7ish rel humans consistent, or some rather explicit verse mechanic that just makes all humans way higher than normal.
 
Isn't Ectoplasm a unique substance and energy that is maleable into different forms. Ghost rays, ecto balls, and weapons are different applications of ectoplasm. Ghost rays are an application of that energy that has similar qualities of light.
 
Travel wouldn't necessarily equate to combat/reactions, though. He is flying, after all.

You're gonna need a lot of feats to make tier 7ish rel humans consistent, or some rather explicit verse mechanic that just makes all humans way higher than normal.
In regards to flight speed =/= combat and reaction speed. We've already talked about this before, the characters are consistently able to react to and tag each other while they are in mid flight with there attacks and physically.

In regards to the tier 7/rel humans. I've already been over this multiple times, the humans in Danny Phantom aren't "normal humans". Not only do they have their own feats that would suggest they are superhuman, they also have multiple scaling feats. I created a blog to show off there physical/scaling feats and I didn't even finish the entire blog. There are still several feats I still need to collect but it's pretty obvious Danny Phantom humans aren't "normal humans" in anyway besides looking like a human.

My brother always makes the joke about "what even is a human in Danny Phantom" because despite trying to make us think they are "normal humans" the writers fail miserably at doing so. Via their own feats, humans in Danny Phantom are are far stronger than "normal humans" and via thier scaling feats, the are on the level of ghosts comparable/equal to Danny Phantom who's above tier 7 and Relativistic in speed
 
No it's not.

I already told you FTL was accepted before that specific Ghost Ray stuff was applied to the verse. Danny's FTL travel feat (which is low-balled) was done multiple times by himself and other could do it as well which makes it consistent. Not to mention he's exactly 100 times slower than Pariah Dark who preformed this feat which would be Massively FTL to Massively FTL+ (However I closed that thread because you made this one). This also doesn't take into account the fact that ghosts can easily keep up with the Specter Speeder no problem which has a feat of traveling from Saturn to Earth in a short time-frame.

So I repeat, lightspeed Ghost Rays were not the main thing supporting Danny Phantom being FTL. Also, there are no "consistent" lower feats in Danny Phantom, there are 3 lower feats and I debunked all 3 and even then each would put him at different speeds all together so it's blatantly clear the writers don't give a damn about consistency and put other feats in that far exceed what they thought they put.

I'm fine with removing the Ghost Ray stuff but it wouldn't effect the ratings.
I'm going by what is on the pages, since I assume those are the feats and calcs that have been universally accepted, not some calc that is not sourced in the main profiles.

Link the others accepted feats and calcs so I can see them. Those should be added to the main verse page and replace the Ghost Ray justificated speeds stats of any character profile, on top of being tagged with the Danny Phantom category for a easier search (Only if those are accepted).

The ghost ray blog should have a note that states it is unusable, and have a link to this thread.

Then we can done with.
 
Are you suggesting that Ghost rays don't refract through glass or reflect off of mirrors?
 
I said that the only good supporting argument is the mirror reflection, and maybe WoG

But the rest can be just brushed as being a source of light without being actually, you can magnify the light of a candle without the candle being SoL speed.
 
I'm going by what is on the pages, since I assume those are the feats and calcs that have been universally accepted, not some calc that is not sourced in the main profiles.

Link the others accepted feats and calcs so I can see them. Those should be added to the main verse page and replace the Ghost Ray justificated speeds stats of any character profile, on top of being tagged with the Danny Phantom category for a easier search (Only if those are accepted).

The ghost ray blog should have a note that states it is unusable, and have a link to this thread.

Then we can done with.
Link what calcs!?.

Danny's other feat not related to the Ghost Ray is already linked on his and many others profiles, and it is what made them FTL in the first place.

The second feat that I planned on using as evidence was the already accepted Pariah Dark feat, and the accepted 100 times multiplier from the Ecto-Skeleton but you made your thread after mine so I closed mine so we could get your thread out of the way.

So unless you've got anything else important to say, I'd like to move this along and remove the Ghost Ray stuff and continue with my thread so we can add more justification.
 
I said that the only good supporting argument is the mirror reflection, and maybe WoG

But the rest can be just brushed as being a source of light without being actually, you can magnify the light of a candle without the candle being SoL speed.
Doesn't that analogy only apply if the energy released is only light as if he held the magnifying glass to a glowing fist? Whenever Danny has shown to project harmless light, it's was in an omnidirectional glow or burst.

All throughout Season 1 he only shoots Ecto-Energy.

We are shown in S1E14 that his Ghost Rays are effective against Shadow before Danny even knew his weakness.

When he fights against Shadow again in S1E16, he doesn't have a reason or history to not shoot ecto-rays, in this case, into the magnifying glass.
 
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Link what calcs!?.

Danny's other feat not related to the Ghost Ray is already linked on his and many others profiles, and it is what made them FTL in the first place.

The second feat that I planned on using as evidence was the already accepted Pariah Dark feat, and the accepted 100 times multiplier from the Ecto-Skeleton but you made your thread after mine so I closed mine so we could get your thread out of the way.

So unless you've got anything else important to say, I'd like to move this along and remove the Ghost Ray stuff and continue with my thread so we can add more justification.
His other FTL feat is with is suit, that gives him a 100x amp
 
His other FTL feat is with is suit, that gives him a 100x amp
No it's not.

This feat right here was done by base Danny Phantom and has nothing to do with the Ghost Ray or the Ecto-Skeleton multiplier and is already on his page.

Then if you multiple Danny's base speed times 100 for the Ecto-Skeleton you'll get Massively FTL which would be consistent with Massively FTL Pariah Dark. Or you could down scale base Danny from Pariah Dark's Massively FTL feat by 100 which would still put him at FTL speeds which is consistent but the thread discussing this is on hold due to this thread.

Can we please stick to the topic at hand which is the Ghost Ray stuff.

Edit: I will be creating the be all - end all Danny Phantom speed thread. It will go over all the speed feats so people can decide for themselves what Danny Phantom characters should be rated. That thread will be posted after this thread is concluded, so if you had any issues regarding their speed ratings besides the Ghost Ray stuff which is being discussed in this thread currently, you can discuss them when that time comes.
 
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No it's not.

This feat right here was done by base Danny Phantom and has nothing to do with the Ghost Ray or the Ecto-Skeleton multiplier and is already on his page.

Then if you multiple Danny's base speed times 100 for the Ecto-Skeleton you'll get Massively FTL which would be consistent with Massively FTL Pariah Dark. Or you could down scale base Danny from Pariah Dark's Massively FTL feat by 100 which would still put him at FTL speeds which is consistent but the thread discussing this is on hold due to this thread.

Can we please stick to the topic at hand which is the Ghost Ray stuff.
Ah well, that's good.
 
Link what calcs!?.

Danny's other feat not related to the Ghost Ray is already linked on his and many others profiles, and it is what made them FTL in the first place.

The second feat that I planned on using as evidence was the already accepted Pariah Dark feat, and the accepted 100 times multiplier from the Ecto-Skeleton but you made your thread after mine so I closed mine so we could get your thread out of the way.

So unless you've got anything else important to say, I'd like to move this along and remove the Ghost Ray stuff and continue with my thread so we can add more justification.
Sure

Remove the Ghost Ray stuff from the profiles and we can be done with it.
 
Sorry for the late response, had some family problems and wasn't online as much.

Anyway, I added a note at the top of the Ghost Ray blog linking this thread. I'll start removing the Ghost Ray stuff from the profiles and once I'm finished I'll start the thread to update/revise the speed depending on what everyone agrees upon. That thread should be up later today.

When I'm done with the edits, I'll comment again.
 
Alright, I'll Ghost Ray stuff (calcs and the blog) has been removed from the profiles. I'll close this and make the thread regarding their new speed description/rating based on what people decide is most accurate.
 
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