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Danganronpa MASSIVE downgrade (Or I should say MASSIVE clean the mess)

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Xanxussama1010

Xanxussama1010

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I really should do this at first, but my personal problem hold it up to be this late. Hah...

Anyway, I'll go straight to the point, Now most of pages in Danganronpa verse are completely mess up and really unreliable. They contain a lot of problem stats, scaling and even descriptions.

Let's me explain about those problem.

Speed problem
We have 3 stats of speed that have problem. Sub-Relativistic, Massively Hypersonic+ and Hypersonic.

Sub-Relativistic

This speed comes from this calc for this character. It may be look correct, but the problem is the calc comes from assume that she can move so fast that bullets appeared frozen to her. Which I think that he assume that from this phase.

With this final thought, even her emotions came to silence. The air froze around her as she bolted through the gaps between the bullets. And at the same time, her heart also froze over, transforming itself into a machine. It took only several seconds for her body and mind to meld and become one with the air around them, covering the battleground with her temperature.

From the text, it just say that "The air froze around", nothing say about bullets appeared frozen like he claimed. I really don't think that we can assume that.

Furthermore, For make this clearer. This phase is a bit different from the original. I have an original phase with directly capture from the game. So I can confirm that it's original.

DRIF 1
Do you see? The original just says "The air around her began to grow COLDER". The word "froze" in here didn't mean "stop" but just "COLD". So, no bullets froze, not even air froze. The calc is completely falsify before it even start. We can't use it at all.

Massively Hypersonic+

This speed comes from contents in Danganronpa:Togami. It's talking about Shukuchi, which assume that it can cross 500 km in an instant. The problem is Danganronpa:Togami is an unreliable source because is is considered non-canonical for the main storyline. Even in Danganronpa wikia also stated that. The story also has contradictions and doesn't match up to any point of main storyline, . So we can't trust and use any information from it.

Hypersonic

This is completely absurdity. It's come from this page by states that he can run 2000 meters in 1 second. I guess that it come from game system that player can instantly move him to next nearest area. Which I can easily tell that this is just pure Game Mechanics. Just the system that developers for support players to save time to travel around in game. Nothing support that he can run this fast in his reality. If we seriously took all Game Mechanics to be feats, then I should also list this one and this one to have Teleportation since I can instantly move them to anywhere in their academy (Of cause if I do, I'll be nothing but a wanker). So this speed also completely falsify.

Tier problem
The tier in verse that has problem is 7-C. This tier comes from chain calc in Sub-Relativistic speed calc, which I have already explained above about how is this falsify. So we can't use this tier too.

Danganronpa V3 Scaling Problem
There're two main problem about scaling pages from Danganronpa V3

Scaling from characters in previous Danganronpa

I'm talking about Tenko Chabashira and Maki Harukawa who are scaling from characters in main storyline of Danganronpa. Which that's wrong.

For explanation about how is it wrong, we separate Danganronpa V3 from the main storyline because the story of V3 exist outside the fictional story of the main and the main storyline was considered a fictional series in V3 world just like ours. Which make characters in the main are just fictional characters for V3 too. This is the reason why Hajime's profile hasn't any talents and equipments from V3 characters.

With reasons above, scaling V3 characters from the main storyline characters are not different from scaling real world human from character in fiction. Which is completely wrong. We should downgrade both to 9-B by scaling from Ryoma since they should at least stronger than him.

9-B characters scaling

Shuichi Saihara, Angie Yonaga, Tsumugi Shirogane and Kokichi Oma. These page is listed to have At least "Wall level" AP and "Subsonic" speed by scaling from Kaito Momota. The problem is scaling them to Kaito seem to be bad idea. Kaito is an ultimate astronaut, he was trained on strength up his physical for make him can go to space without problem. So he is the one of strong characters in series. While the others that I mentioned above (Ultimate Detective, Ultimate Artist, Ultimate Cosplayer, Ultimate Supreme Leader) haven't any reason to comparable to him in anyway. So compare them with a stronger person is wrong. I suggest to downgrade them to just Human level and Normal speed. Except for Kokichi, which maybe on likely 9-C since he can fight against weakened Kaito.

Other character Scaling Problem
I will explain page by page about how are they mess up

Hajime Hinata: His High 6-C tier from defeated AI Junko is nonsense. First, Junko's AP is non combatant. It only applies to things in program word. Nothing can directly do to human inside. Second, Hajime didn't killed her, the Force Shutdown system did. The things that Hajime did are battle her with talk-no-jutsu and cheers his comrade to active it. So nothing relate to the AP

Chiaki Nanami: Saying she has High 6-C like Junko because she is also an AI is nonsense. Just because she is an AI didn't mean she should compare to her. Beside if she can compare to her, she should be easily beat Monokuma and all of Monobeasts by herself. Which she can't. So this is also false.

Junko Enoshima: Her 8-C from defeated Juzo is iffy. There're not any scenes show that how can she defeat him. But at least I can tell that she didn't beat him in fair fight because it's not her characteristics to do that. Furthermore, Junko has Ultimate Analysis which make her can predict about how Juzo will move (And Juzo should also be the type of person that easy to read) She can use that to do the trick to defeat him. So, directly apply her to Juzo level is inconsistency.

Aoi Asahina: Related with Juzo again... Ó╣îNo, she didn't defeat him, just hold with him for a short time. Furthermore, that isn't even a fair fight because Juzo's combat skills as ultimate boxer were heavily hampered by didn't allow to punch or kick (because if he do, he will instantly die from poison by punishment from NG code). If I can fight against a boxer who don't allow to punch or kick me, do you say that I as strong as him? Obviously not.

Makoto Naegi: Is this some kind of joke? Naegi always show to be a pretty weak through the series. Compare him with Munakata is wrong, Naegi can't even give any real injury to Munakata. If he has 8-C AP, then that's mean he can also create a crater like Nekomaru did? I REALLY doubt that.

Yasuhiro Hagakure: chain scaling from Makoto, nothing to explain more.

Kyoko Kirigiri: Her reason on scaling is a bit exaggerated claims. She just appeared on the scene and Junko ran away by herself, Furthermore, Junko didn't attempt to kill Makoto in first place. Just acting to make him believe that Mukuro still alive. So nothing relate on AP.

Maybe Maybe there is more issues left, which we can discuss about it in here.

Summary

 
This actually makes sense and the explanations and evidences are connected properly, I agree.
 
False Analogy about the Hypersonic thing, it is said that the characters cannot do what they are uncapable of doing in real life.

Tsumugi is 9-B on her AP because she killed Rantaro, did you even check her page? (Yeah, the subsonic and her dura is scaled to him, but her AP is something else)

I would like to see the entire Danganronpa IF before I say something, but are you sure he didn't take from the original thing in Japanese, things are pretty different when translated.

Juzo could kick, is just that he couldn't punch things, since we saw him kneeing Makoto on the beginning, which kinda killed that farmer dude.

The Chiaki being AI, I think this would scale before she was you know, screwed by the virus and all, he should probably have explained that better.

I don't know much about Danganronpa Togami, so I wont talk about that.

Before we go with anything, we should go ask Muhhammed since he is the one who did that.
 
I don't think I've seen any contradictions from what I've read of DR: Togami, but a lot of it is untranslated so idk. If we are removing stuff from that, then Sakura and Haji will be losing their Class 100 lifting strength, as well. I don't mind the sub-rela/7-C calc, but I can see why that's iffy. We can definitely get rid of the 6-C stuff though, or at the very least explain it on the profiles better. Haji could have a key for being within the Neo World Program or as the World Destroyer, and that could be 6-C. Chiaki 6-C is just ridiculous, though. And I agree with your other scaling revisions, as well.
 
Do you understand the word Game Mechanics? And I already said that there're nothing to support that untalented student like Hajime being as fast as that.

And? Are you saying that Rantaro has 9-B and Subsonic, from what? I don't see any reason for him to have stats lik that.

He copy text from this, you can compare. It's same. But how is that important? I already said that I capture the text from offical release of game at all.

Yeah, he can knee. But it's still not change the fact that his skills were heavily hampered since he is an ultimate boxer.

The problem is Chiaki never show to control anything. So no.

That's ok.

After he made a lot of massive false to Danganronpa? No thanks.
 
Do you understand the word Game Mechanics? And I already said that there're nothing to support that untalented student like Hajime being as fast as that.

Actually, in UDG, there is a blue character who reacted to a Monokuma jumping at him, and he fragmented a chair as he hit the Monokuma, sending it away (So even if it seems stupid, he should already be superior to the blue characters, since they are literal fodder)

And? Are you saying that Rantaro has 9-B and Subsonic, from what? I don't see any reason for him to have stats lik that.

(Yeah, the subsonic and her dura is scaled to him, but her AP is something else) The him in this phrase was Kaito, you took it wrong.

He copy text from this, you can compare. It's same. But how is that important? I already said that I capture the text from offical release of game at all.

I will just quote his explanation used on the blog (It says that she bolted through the gaps between the bullets, with everything around her frozen, even the air itself, so that means that bullets appeared frozen to her. Even Monokumas appeared frozen to them to the extent that she used one as a step ladder.)

If that was wrong, I am sure someone would have stated something about the calculation or the premise of the thing.

Yeah, he can knee. But it's still not change the fact that his skills were heavily hampered since he is an ultimate boxer.

She still harmed him, no? harming 8-C character should make her 8-C Unless something else or she is some kind of glass canon

The problem is Chiaki never show to control anything. So no.

Fair enough I guess

That's ok.

thanks

After he made a lot of massive false to Danganronpa? No thanks.

Such as what? The only thing that comes to my head at the moment is the whole Tsumugi thing, but that was because of the IF thing, that he should have probably made a CRT about before anything else.
 
I think that everything in the first post seems to make sense.
 
Then we need the calc for that fodder before. So we can use it to scale speed.

Well, ok. But I already stated that she has no real reason to scale with him in anyway.

The reason that no one stated about false on clac before because calc members group has no knowledge about Danganronpa. So they can't see the false in statement.

It depend on AP gap. a 2-4x AP weaker character can still hurt the stronger So it's not necessary for her to directly be 8-C. And IIRC, she is just protect herself from his attack. Don't see any scene that her attack hit him.

He did a lot of massive edit without CRT several times. Such as trying to add equipment and abilities from V3 (which I already stated above how it wrong). The Tsumugi issues also one of that.
 
I am against the removal of tier 7 and sub relativistic speed

Muh explains the entire thing on his calculation, and if there was something wrong with it, someone would have said something about it.

"Time came to a standstill for Mukuro Ikusaba. It was as though everything around her had frozen over instantly. It was a familiar sensation to her, from a time before she had been known as the Super High School Level Soldier--back when she was still a member of the mercenary group known as 'Fenrir'. Even when she was surrounded by enemies in the depths of the jungle or inside ancient ruins in the desert, this sensation of seeing her enemies stopped in a single moment in time allowed her to grasp victory from the jaws of despair."

"With this final thought, even her emotions came to silence. The air froze around her as she bolted through the gaps between the bullets. And at the same time, her heart also froze over, transforming itself into a machine. It took only several seconds for her body and mind to meld and become one with the air around them, covering the battleground with her temperature.

The word froze was mentioned before saying that the air froze, besides, why do we take English translation with Danganronpa but not the other VN??? Where does that makes sense?

Then we need the calc for that fodder before. So we can use it to scale speed.

Someone asked for that, like, months ago, it was never made, the dude, CursedGentleman, asked this apparently, but hey, he was banned so who cares, amirite?

Still, they should be able to do that thing of the Hypersonic shmuck due to how Neo World Program works

Since the Neo World Program is a next-gen software containing the ultimate reality, it tricks the user's brain into thinking that it's all real as their consciousness is uploaded into the virtual world. Thus, the program's virtual version of Jabberwock Island looks real because the students' brains think it's real.

So, is real to them and shit, so they are able to do those things.
 
Gtg right now do stuff irl, so I wont be able to answer, I still hope you guys contact Muh before making the changes tho.
 
I'm in a complete agreement with the OP. 7-C calc also assumed that the character was moving at Sub-Rel speeds during the feat, which has nothing supporting it.
 
Actually, in UDG, there is a blue character who reacted to a Monokuma jumping at him, and he fragmented a chair as he hit the Monokuma, sending it away (So even if it seems stupid, he should already be superior to the blue characters, since they are literal fodder)
-Nyukira

What does this prove? No one was able to move at 2000 meters per second, which is why it's called Game Mechanics, but once Hajime got 2000 meters in 1 second flat, everyone that didn't display 2000 meters in 1 second flat suddenly is able to now.

Someone asked for that, like, months ago, it was never made, the dude, CursedGentleman, asked this apparently, but hey, he was banned so who cares, amirite?

Still, they should be able to do that thing of the Hypersonic shmuck due to how Neo World Program works

Since the Neo World Program is a next-gen software containing the ultimate reality, it tricks the user's brain into thinking that it's all real as their consciousness is uploaded into the virtual world. Thus, the program's virtual version of Jabberwock Island looks real because the students' brains think it's real.

So, is real to them and shit, so they are able to do those things.
-Nyukira

Overthinking, I am pretty sure this is just Game Mechanics, so that walking left and right wouldn't take a lot of time but this isn't the same case when you're able to walk in front of the Hotel because it wouldn't take time to walk or travel the whole place anyways, since it's so small.

There's a function where you can teleport on places even on other islands, he has teleportation now? So all he has to do is think of it as real and he'll have teleportation, so he is able to do it? I am sleepy and I think what I am doing right now is making myself even more sleepy.

Fast Travel (1)

At this point, I am amazed on how they still doesn't realize that everything's virtual reality, though if you're saying that it tricks the user's brain into thinking that it's all real, then it's still not real, they just think it is and it doesn't make it real, so the speed feat isn't really usable and again Game Mechanics.

If I didn't make sense I am probably just sleepy since I am tired.
 
Well, if the guy doesn't want to participate here, we can either ask more people or start applying the changes, seeing that the majority seems to agree with the OP.
 
I agree with basically everything in the OP, though I think that the Sub-Rela calc still works fine. The 7-C calc is somewhat calc-stacky though, so I can understand why it would be removed.

I know that the DR wiki says that Togami is non-canon, but I haven't actually seen anything that explains why it is, so I think that the class 100 calc and shukuchi can stay.
 
Well, I suppose that the changes can start to be applied then.
 
The ones described in the first post.
 
Okay. Thank you for the help.
 
I disagree with the Sub-Rela and Togami feats being removed, due to the former being valid in my opinion, and there not being sufficient grounds to remove the latter (from what I know and have seen, at least). Besides that, I can agree with the other downgrades.
 
I haven't noticed any insults.
 
Okay, but let's try to stay on topic please.
 
Shouldn't base Hajime scale from Chiaki? She considers herself weaker than Hajime and the Yakuza (Well, she said that she is weaker than them because she is a woman).
 
Therefir said:
Shouldn't base Hajime scale from Chiaki? She considers herself weaker than Hajime and the Yakuza (Well, she said that she is weaker than them because she is a woman).
Click to expand...
Well, I guess that scale base Hajime from Chiaki is ok.
 
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