Dan Karuma Vs Sirzechs Lucifer

[The_Causality]

Well, the lat match with Lucifer, and because it's my last, a strong characters is required sooooo Masada? ye

• Speed Equalized
• Both at their peak
• SBA (start at 4 Kilometers)

Sirzechs Lucifer

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Incoming chaos

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Incoming chaos

Can i agree with you on that one?

 

[Warren_Valion]

I vote for the Masdaverse character because he's a Masadaverse character.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so someone explain what this guy can do and what he opens up with. Depending on that this may be a miss match.

1 PoD will be the end of him, which would be Sirzechs first move. So if he can stop sirzechs without getting f-ed over by his passive before sirzechs bombs the place, he may win, also depending on what he does it may turn out to be a stomp for the Masada character.

Ok so info on the character.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Dan's Precog + Numerous Hax + Automatically being outside of Sirzech's PoD range = Win

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Dan's Precog + Numerous Hax + Automatically being outside of Sirzech's PoD range = Wi

What hax?

Precog can only help you avoid sth. It's not something that you can use for anything else.

He's not out of Sirzechs' range, who told you that?

He's out of his "passive" range (Sirzechs would stomp if he were in his passive range or if this were bloodlusted). He's still in his PoD range, Sirzech can easily bomb.

Also explain the numerous hax and what he opens up with in character.

 

[Warren_Valion]

What hax?

Precog can only help you avoid sth. It's not something that you can use for anything else.

He's not out of Sirzechs' range, who told you that?

He's out of his "passive" range (Sirzechs would stomp if he were in his passive range or if this were bloodlusted). He's still in his PoD range, Sirzech can easily bomb.

Also explain the numerous hax and what he opens up with in character.

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Enhanced Senses, Stealth Mastery (Can mask his own presence from others and hide his own features, making those who look at his direction to only see a black silhouette), Regenerationn (Low-Mid. Even those with low level Defense Dream are capable of healing severe wounds such as their limbs being torn off), Reality Warping (Can turn his dreams into reality, allowing him to boost his physical capabilities, create new worlds and objects, launch projectiles that homes on his targets), Barrier Generation, Durability Negation (Attacks of Kantan Users are purely fictional and abstract and as such, it allows them to directly harm the mind and soul), Soul Manipulation (Can directly affect the soul), Mind Manipulation (Can directly affect the mind. His mere presence cause people to panic and be horrified from him and just touching others is like the feeling of a venomous bite), Spatial Manipulation (Using the World category of the Creation Dream, Dan can manipulate space as he deems fits. This ranges from blocking his enemies from moving to controlling the surrounding he's within such as causing a lunar eclipse. Can destroy space by releasing explosions blasts), Creation and Law Manipulation (Can create worlds with their own laws), Power Nullification(Can restrict his targets from using their abilities as shown during his battle against Hiiragi Seijuurou and Shinno Akikage), Information Analysis (Can use Cancel Dream to gain information about his enemies such as which form of combat they excel at, "their stats" and weaknesses), Body Control (Can swap his targets bodies with his Hadan, switching the position of their limbs such as their legs, hands, eyes to hinder their mobility), Statistics Amplification (Can amplify the force of his attacks and speed through the Attack Dream, increase his own range through the Scattering category of the Magic Dream), Precognition (should be able to predict the future with his high level in the Scattering category of the Magic dream ), Summoning (Can call upon the demons of Jingishou to fight for him), Homing Attack (Can release bullets of light that homes on its targets), Gravity Manipulation (His Hadan distorts gravity, turning everything upside down. It also keeps changing with time, making difficult to move inside), Weather Manipulation (He's mere presence causes the weather to change. Can even manipulate it directly, causing lightning to fall down), Limited Death Manipulation (Can kill nature itself by manipulating the earth pulses), Attack Reflection (Can redirect attacks back at his opponents), Non-Corporeal (He's nothing more than a dream, a fictional and metaphysical existence that reality cannot affect), Resistance to Spatial, Spiritual and Mental attacks (Regularly takes on Kantan Users attacks. Is unaffected by Keira's Golden Eyes which breaks the mind and can fight on against Nakiri Kuubou despite the malice and despair the Dragon holds from his presence)

That Hax.

Precog + Information Analysis = He knows what Sirzechs is going to do and can attack accordingly.

He's out of Sirzech's passive EE range, which is the only thing that would kill him, that's what I meant obviously.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That doesn't exactly answer my question.

1. What can he do to kill sirzechs.

2. How fast is whatever he's gonna do?

And no that's not the only thing that would kill him. Sirzechs bombs, he dies. Sirzechs' body, passive, demonic powers, literally anything he does has the sam effect, they will erase the enemy since all have the same traits. So sirzechs bombs he dies.

Now what does he open up with?

 

[ALRF]

There's the question if Sirzech can affect metaphysical beings such as dreams. Buut assuming so

Note that Dan also has stuff such as reading his opponent statistics, gauging their abilities and reading his chances of victory to pick up the pace

If he can, he has to make it through Dan with his Hada.

Dan Hadan's has two functions. One allows him to distort the formation of body, as in basically messing with your body to directly stop your mobility and hinder your movement. And the second is distortion of sense.

This latter is done by transporting himself and the enemy to one of his worlds. Inside this world, there exist sanskrit symbols. These symbols means directions. And so, by stepping on one of them, you're immediatly going to the opposite direction. For exemple, going forward will make you go backward instead, going right will make you go left. Stepping on the same direction twice will flip gravity upside down, making it even more difficult to move in. walking, flying or teleportation is useless, you have to know the secret behind this ability and adapt (which is absolutely hard since he can conceal any info about it and even using Cancel Dream to find through it is hard). Meanwhile, Dan is pretty good at using this, so he will just stay forever from harm. Of course, during Hadan, Dan likes to snipe his opponent with abilities like those homing balls.

His Kyuudan however is the best. Triggering it is hard, but it is extremely good against intelligent opponents (Like Sirzech). Condition for it to active is that the "opponent must known the game has begun". Dan Karuma specifically uses the Creation Dream to create worlds ressembling Shogi to make it clear and evident this is some kind of game. Once activated, a gameboard is made, the size of universe. And the effect keeps on because Sirzech "agreed" to the contract. Even if we assume he can destroy the universe (he can't really), even if he can turn the laws of the universe upside down, the Kyuudan will still exist. Hitting Dan is against the rules so Sirzech can't. He's then forced to play Shogi with him. The loser will die. Buut if by any chance Dan loses, he can trigger the second effect of this Kyuudan, Table Flip. Condition of this one is that the opponent must "known that Dan is acting out of character". This is easily done by his constant denial of losing. Effect of this Table Flip is that both loser and winner sides switches, Dan is now the winner and Sirzech loses as the Gameboard collapses

So basically, Dan can Kyuudan GG Sirzech

 

[Schnee_One]

Dan stomps no?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm ok so.

Yes sirzechs can affect him. Like his PoD will be able to reach and erase a non corporeal like Dan.

Now on to his dream. There is something you need to know first and that is Sirzechs' passive mind read. This will be important down below.

Now on to his Hadan. Creating the world wouldn't be to much avail as Sirzechs would already know the changes. Another thing is the fact that Sirzechs will be able to get out, this guy can teleport and even open portals to another dimension (dimensional gap) i doubt the world would be able to keep him in, about his perception changing it really isn't a big deal as a lot of things don't need perception on his side. If Sirzechs decides "die" and even more so the fact that the whole world there is a dream is bad news for Dan. If sirzechs let's loose (stop holding back, since this is in character so he would start in a held back mode), PoD will literally erase anything, including Dan. This is actually the scariest move rn, in the world it may be too hard for Sirzechs to hold back (so either sirzechs let's lose or he is unable to control it, imma say it'd be the latter since Sirzechs already has too much of a hard time controlling it normally let alone controlling it in that world). So yeah the Hadan won't rly do that much.

Now onto his Kyudan. The Kyudan won't be able to activate due to his mind read. Sirzechs would already know about the trigger and stuff. Though even assuming it does somehow activate, it still hasn't shown any feat of someone who can literally open gaps in dimensions not being able to leave has it? And how does the death work, like the mechanics and all.

Now all of this is IF Dan manages to make his Kyudan in time. Sirzechs can literally just think him out of existence (quite literally actually, he just stops holding back), now how that happens is a different issue.

If he stays in earth or wherever this fight is happening. Sirzechs would just bomb the place and gain a win.

If he puts his Hadan on, Sirzechs would be unable to hold back or stop holding back since there would be nothing for Sirzechs to "preserve". Either way he will stop holding back, which would erase Dan.

In these 2 scenarios the scenario where his Kyudan is activated is non existent, but if it does activate. Then sirzechs can just open a dimensional portal or win the game and not think "he is acting out of his personality" as he would already know that is the trigger for it. Without that Dan would be the one to die.

 

[ALRF]

I mean telling me "yes" without any argument won't make me believe so...affecting other non-corporeals isn't good either. Affecting a spirit isn't the same as affecting someone who's literally nothing but a dream and even bluntly to be said that reality can't affect them

Hadan is universal size too so unless PoD can reach the entire universe, it likely won't do anything. And oh, he can null power like he did to Shinno Akikage to stop him from escaping or using his powers. And i did tell you teleportation is useless too ya know? You need to adapt to this world

And no portals and stuff like that are useless too. Other teleporters like Ayumi can't even escape from it, even those can cross dimensions can't escape from it. They are forced by the rules to play the game.

Can he mind read in combat though? I don't remember him doing that. And besides, Dan Karuma can block mental interference so it doesn't matter

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I wanted to cut it short by saying "yes". But ok. He can dmg souls, consciousness, bodies, minds, non corporeal beings, abstract beings or beings that represent a certain concept like Ophis who literally embodies infinity (she literally has the traits of infinity so like any dmg is neglectable, she cannot be nulled since it's infinity etc etc), and even dreams (great red). Besides dreams don't go further than "abstract beings" anyway.

It's universal in size...so what? He doesn't reach the end of his own universe to create portals. He can create it literally anywhere.

This point is basically an extention to the 2nd one, but ok. Teleportations that cross dimensions and literally tearing through the dimensions are not the same thing so null point.

Yes it's practically a passive. He "can" block mental interference, "when he realizes" and "it'll be too late". A passive will have already done more than enough jobs before a thought based ability kicks in.

 

[ALRF]

'k

As for the portals, even Hiiragi Seijuurou who can create portals can't do shit. Also you ignored my point about power nullification but since Sirzech has no resistance to it, it's gonna be a big hit to Sirzech.

Never heard of his mind reading being passive.

Have any quote from the LN for it? Alongside the volume of said chapter if you can

And actually, reading his mind and knowing of the condition will actually trigger the kyuuda so lol.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. Hiiragi literally tearing space and dimension appart to create a passage to another dimension when. Need scan.

2. Power Null, won't rly work on sirzechs as sirzechs literally is Power of Destruction. Dan won't null me out of humanity, it's not possible, i cannot be more "null" than this (i am literally in a base state). Same for Sirzechs, he is power of destruction. Nulling him won't be possible, if anything nulling his human form would transform him into his true form. It will work on some other stuff though it won't affect PoD as it is literally him. Nulling him just might have a negative effect doe.

3. Well if you have seen the show you may have noticed Rias doing stuff like always knowing what's on Ise's mind etc etc. Sirzechs can do the same via "traits of devil". As for quotes im sorry but i continued DxD from the anime so i don't rly know any scenes from the light novel. It's either passive or they always have it on (which is the same rly).

4. Why would that trigger the kyuudan? Sirzechs will know the triggers, and he WILL avoid doing that. And then again kyuudan event is practically non existent, he will be erased before even considering using his Kyuudan. Also "the game has started", Sirzechs is not the kind of dude who would think that in a fight, if he's in a fight, he will show no mercy towards his opponent, creating a game of shogi won't make this guy think "the game has started". And even harder to make Sirzechs think "he's acting out of his character" when he will know for a fact that's bad. As for winning the game of shogi Sirzechs has a 100% chance. This guys literally built a system based on chess (which originated from Shogi) and he always plays shogi, chess (or the other game, forgot the name, the game which existed before these 2) and even makes battle strategies based on them.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Man.

You were the one saying that there should be less sirzechs fights?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Man.
You were the one saying that there should be less sirzechs fights?

Do i look like the guy that made this thread?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

...I swear I saw your avatar there, sorry.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

...I swear I saw your avatar there, sorry.

>When omnipresence is a bad power

Im like water in the desert, you see me everywhere (or at least you think you do ), everybody likes me xD

Also can somebody add "perception manipulation" to my profile?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Nah.

I can only see things that are useless and sslow me down. That's my excuse for not doing anything anyways

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nah.
I can only see things that are useless and sslow me down. That's my excuse for not doing anything anyways

I feel bad now...

• like a turd in the wind

xD

 

[ALRF]

1. Hiiragi ripping through space and emmergin from it

2. Not really a good argument. It still a power of his and therefore gets nulled.

3.Bring me a quote, otherwise no dice.

4. Because of the fact he will know what is the condition it will actually be triggered. But sure if you think so, i don't think i'll change your opinion so i'll let the others decided

Now i won't accept anything from your arguments anymore unless it has scans/quotes

It's only fair right?

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Dan throws his Kyuudan

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. Him ripping through dimensions was my point doe.

2. Again as i said. PoD is not his power. PoD is him. He's not a devil, nor is he human, he is power of destruction. He was born like that. You might check it on the profile as it says "his true form is Power of destruction". Unless he turns Hiiragi from dream to human etc etc, he won't be nulling Sirzechs. As i said it's not his power, it's literally him. Nulling majin buu won't null his gummy physiologi, etc, get my point? You don't get nulled, your powers do, your physiology and stuff doesn't change, your ability to use powers does. As i said his other powers will be nulled, not PoD doe.

3. Hmm can i give you parts from the anime instead? (the anime follows the light novel btw) It may take me more time to find it in the light novel.

4. Well knowing something doesn't mean "believing something". Rather than thinking "oh he's acting out of character" he'll think "meh it's just a trap".

Hmm ok though, let's not get too detailed ok? Example stuff that i can prove through the profile should be ok right?

And yeah it's fair. I'm a realist, i know i don't have the best reputation around so it's not like i expect you to believe me on my every word.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Dan throws his Kyuudan

Rebuble throws his comment.

 

[ALRF]

And i've just reminded myself that Dan Karuma can actually make attacks bypass himself with Cancel Dream, including attacks that can erase existence, with said attacks going from others who are non-corporeal

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And i've just reminded myself that Dan Karuma can actually make attacks bypass himself with Cancel Dream, including attacks that can erase existence, with said attacks going from others who are non-corporeal

Not gonna work for these 2 reasons:

1. If he's not in the dream Sirzechs will just bomb and he will be unable to cancel it.

2. If he is in the dream cancel dream will be too slow. Passive > Thought based. He would be erased before he can even think about it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bump?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I vote Sirzechs doe.

Reasons:

It's impossible for Dan to activate his Kyudan. There are 2 possibilities for Sirzechs' win doe:

1. He bombs the place before Dan gets in the dream world.

2. If Dan does get into the dream world then that's the end of the match. Sirzechs' passive will kick in, completely erasing Dan the moment the dream world starts. It'll be impossible for Dan to counter this in anyway. So the match can't go further than this.

There is no scenario in which Dan would be able to activate his Kyudan.

Sirzechs wins. You guys decide if it's a stomp or not.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

dan...just wins...i mean if sirzechs is trapped its game over. Did you not see the part where blowing up game board means nothing? This is like seiji only with a game

 

[Firephoenixearl]

dan...just wins...i mean if sirzechs is trapped its game over. Did you not see the part where blowing up game board means nothing? This is like seiji only with a game

The game will never start, Dan will be already dead before the game starts.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

and the cancel shit does work properly in this case fire. He destroys but Dan can use the cancel to make it not hit him even so....and his kyudan is really lose in some ways afaik

 

[Firephoenixearl]

and the cancel shit does work properly in this case fire. He destroys but Dan can use the cancel to make it not hit him even so....and his kyudan is really lose in some ways afaik

Cancel....vs Passive EE.

Yeah makes sense that it works ;P .

And about Kyudan as i said, he won't be able to "the game has started" before Sirzechs says "die". Once sirzechs acts it's a wrap. It ends there. There is also the "if he goes for the dream he's passively dead". If he goes for Hadan in character, then yeah, this can be closed.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

his kyudan is passive as alrfy told ya already

 

[ALRF]

Passive EE will not reach 4km instantly IIRC

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Passive EE will not reach 4km instantly IIRC

Hmm. In a "held back" state it's not 4km, it's pretty smol. If he says "*** it" it becomes a 4km "aura" that EE's you. He doesn't launch anything at you, but being in his presence kills you.

In a held back it's a smol aura. In an uncontroled state it's a 4km aura.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

his kyudan is passive as alrfy told ya already

It's passive. It's a weak passive. It's a passive that still requires thought from Sirzechs, and it requires the "exact" thought. Before that happens Sirzechs would have already bombed the place. And Sirzechs is not the kind of guy who'd be like "lol shogi" when he has an enemy in front of him, so before Dan can do anything meaningful he'll already be dead.

If he wastes time in the real world then Sirzechs bombs.

If he takes Sirzechs into the dream world, sirzechs passively bombs.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Now my question is. Would this qualify as a stomp since it may result in passive win?

 

[ALRF]

Passive win is only at close range.

While Sirzech is capable of nuking him from several kilometers apart, that requires him to actively use PoD instead of just letting it out.

Passive win is out

And you had yet to answer to power null