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D&D: More Revisions (Deities)

If we included Basic D&D then Gods can explicitly create universes. But it may be iffy to use considering its nature.
 
The universe stuff I'm pretty sure we don't need further backing for. All good.

As a side note, just learned our next module is Demonweb Pits so if my character dies just go ahead and count me out for a week or two to recover. 6 years is a long time with one human fighter.
 
I think there are a couple of lair storm feats in Volo's Guide. I'll see what I can find (also should we make another thread for D&D storm feats)?
 
Nah, not really. Not much to discuss, everyone who has been actively participating has seen this.
 
Ok, I didn't find anything useful in Volo's but I did find something in the MM that could back up the Dragon calcs.

The Kraken can change the weather at will in a 6-mile radius centered at its lair. The effects are identical to the Control Weather spell. Basically it can use Control Weather instantly and with a biggger area of effect. It's on page 197 of the 5e Monster Manual.

IMG 5016
 
Oh, something I know was mentioned in earlier editions but I'm not sure about in later editions is that the gods have access to all mortal spells. So anything a Wizard, Cleric, etc. can do a god should be able to do too.
 
@Foggy Kraken has the same affect as the Blue/Bronze dragon then. It came out as Low 7-B. As for the god things... yeah, I do seem to recall that, and that'd make sense (at least for Clerics) considering the gods are literally the bestowers of the abilities.
 
This is random, but should the Wizard Player Character page really only have stats for the absolute most powerful a Wizard Character can get in a Campaign?
 
I believe we can all agree it needs a LOT of keys. As in, one for every time a tier is jumped.

  • Base level wizard would be 9-B based on the MANY feats on this level, including some done by Weekly and I could post a load more.
  • 9-A by level 5 is pretty acceptable considering outcomes of stuff like Fireball.
  • After that we'd take a jump to High 8-C IIRC based on feats like Disintegrate.
  • Then 8-B, possibly even higher depending on whether or not my most recent D&D blog gets looked at, which would make them "At least 8-B, likely Low 7-B" based on scaling to legendary dragons (currently they scale to Sunburst).
  • Finally, epic levels would be At least High 7-C (depending on another calc that is buried deep in my blogs, titled simply but beautifully, "Anotha One", if it gets accepted), likely Low 7-B (see above), 6-B Prep Time.
  • Then we should probably make tiers for Demigodhood as well, meaning they'd also have a High 6-A tier, as I believe that is a step to godhood.
I'm not against having Low 2-C, possibly 2-C in there, not a myth that it is possible to attain that level (depending on the DM, of course, but a player at my table is a demigod nowadays, RIP my level 15 fighter). So the tier itself should stay, it is just that we need the page to be fixed up a lot more. And, while we're at it, maybe work on pages for the other basic classes (monk, cleric, barbarian, so on).
 
I certainly can't think of many Tabletop RPG settings where your player character will be destroying universes by the end of the campaign.
 
Campaign? Nah. We're talking about after TONS of campaigns. Unless your DM is a kind and lovely god. But yeah, it is a thing, weirdly enough. Though to my knowledge one does not just wander about destroying universes.
 
Also only a small amount of wizards possess the power to fight the upper tiers of the universe and I really only know of one wizard that has fought a God and lived.
 
Iuz was a god when he fought Mordenkainen and Co., right? That could justifiably be PIS, but they've fought gods.

So yeah, that tier is INCREDIBLY RARE, but mortals achieving godhood isn't unheard of (Bane, Nerull, etc).
 
Iuz was a Demigod and not a full on god. Though I should amend my statement to "I don't know of any Wizard besides one that has fought a Lesser God or stronger and lived".
 
Well yeah. Though that Mystra thing (spellplague), wasn't that by a paladin killing her?
 
Cyric is a Greater God and the Spellplague was due to Far Realm influence.
 
It is basically. Plus the amount of Mages that can challenge a Demigod is absurdly small and to my knowledge Raistlin Majere is the only mage that has fought a Greater God one on one and lived.
 
Mystra was slain by Helm, the God of Guardians, when she tried to get past him during the Time of Troubles, which led to the Spellplague @Bambu

Helm was also given Ao's direct power, which is how such a God slew Mystra herself.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
This is random, but should the Wizard Player Character page really only have stats for the absolute most powerful a Wizard Character can get in a Campaign?
Click to expand...
That's a good point, he should have different keys for different levels. That being said, player wizards can definitely become 2-C, albeit not until absolute max level for each edition.
 
Even at max (level 20) level, a standard wizard won't be 2-C. You would need to steal a god's power or recreate Karsus' Avatar, the 12th level epic spell, to become 2-C. A metric fuckload of work would go into a playable character Wizard getting to tier 2. Elminster is the most powerful magic-user in the Forgotten Realms setting for instance, has been around centuries, and the dude is Tier 6 with his best prep spells.

You'd need to be able to hit like, level 60+ as a wizard to get enough Spellcraft to create an Epic spell of even Tier 5 proportion. It's absurdly difficult to hit Tier 2 in the DnD realm as a whole without gaining ranks of divinity and ascending to godhood.
 
As well with 4th edition. There is the scales of war campain which ends with the PC at max level. Fighting and killing Tiamat in her own realm, in the Nentir Vale setting.
 
Xulrev said:
Even at max (level 20) level, a standard wizard won't be 2-C. You would need to steal a god's power or recreate Karsus' Avatar, the 12th level epic spell, to become 2-C. A metric fuckload of work would go into a playable character Wizard getting to tier 2.
Click to expand...
Being completely fair, the one use of Karsus' Avatar was used to temporarily replace Mystryl who is considered 2-A not 2-C. It probably wouldn't scale unless we have a key for a Wizard with a metric ton of prep time
 
Demon Lords are At least Low 2-C, likely 2-C and could be getting a "possibly 2-A" rating. The Wizard is already scaled to lesser deities, demon lords, archdevils, and so on.
 
But a wizard can't fight a Demon Lord on his own (the demon lord will surely defeat him). If we are talking about the standard wizard adventurer, he would need another few adventurers (the rest of the party) to help him.
 
I know some of the Legendary Wizards like Iggwilv, Mordenkainen, and I believe Zagyg have defeated/delt with Demon Princes or Demigods. But those three are also vastly above the standard Wizard and usually required prep for their stuff.
 
We've established wizards can rise ot this level. Like I said, this wouldn't apply to most wizards, literally less than a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent are on this level, but it has happened. Again, Nerull is a prime example of a wizard ascending into godhood (necromancer but you get the drift). Other classes can do it, too. I see nothing wrong with having the current tier, just expand on it to show the rest of the iceberg.
 
If the Wizard profile is supposed to be a composite thing sure. Make their peak rating 2A, but there should be very clear disclaimers imo.
 
Also isn't the avangion from darksun another good example of a wizard transending into a godly or at least a godlike level of power?
 
Yeah, I'm all for adding a note at the bottom saying something like "This tier is literally like a handful of wizards, practically none".

Also, dunno, never played Darksun. Isn't that the thing with all the psychics and stuff?
 
In Dark Sun the Avangions and the Dragons aren't really gods. They can grant clerical spells by being focal points to the elemental planes but they can't cast them themselves along with other caveats.

They are however, vastly stronger than the majority of the beings in the multiverse due to their incredibly high level along with magical traits. But ultimately they can be defeated by a very strong party, which isn't something a God would be subject to.
 
So they'd be somewhere along the lines of a demigod, then. High 6-A.
 
Borys the Dragon of Tyr is a level 30 Wizard in the body of a extremely strong Dragon. So maybe he fits in with the Epic Level/Demigod stuff. All of the Sorcerer-Kings were also empowered by the sun by weird magic, which turned it from yellow to red.
 
Oh. That's... strange. Darksun would be 4-C, then, much for the same reason DS is 4-C (though with maybe less standing, so that might be a stretch). Still.
 
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