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D&D: More Revisions (Deities)

To be fair, BB is assumed to be within the moon cell for her matches, and PMM witches inside their labrinths. Treat Ao's sphere similarly, and you're good. That doesn't sound right in the first place though.
 
Yes, but it needs to be noted that he doesn't have that power outside his own sphere, as even in a paradox set up just for fight reasons, it's a major weakness.
 
Give him another key? Also, the characters I used as examples generally consider their oponent leaving their domains as self BFR for whatever reason. While I don't really agree with that, it should carry over to Ao if that's the way we're doing it. Anyone who can forcibly teleport him gets a win though, still a huge weakness if correct.
 
I know it needs to be added to his weaknesses. And no, I don't think we should have another key because we just know he's weak outside his sphere, not how weak. I also can't edit Ao, so Azzy, the edit is on you, if you don't mind.
 
I don't think a key is needed, but that is a major weakness.

Even with someone like the Lady of Pain, we're not told that she doesn't have power outside of Sigil (considering she literally repaired the multiverse) because she's left so vague, while with Ao, we've been told directly that he failed to stop something that came from outside his sphere of influence, despite the fact he's supposed to be High 2-A within it.

That is a weakness.
 
Within the context of a thread, would all of his opponents not originate from beyond his domain? Seems pretty crippling.
 
Maybe something like

"Weakness: Ao's powers are limited to the Forgotten Realms multiverse. Anything outside of that multiverse or originates from outside of it are immune/cannot be affected by Ao."

Also remove the LOP parts while you're at it I guess.
 
So Ao literally can't be fought unless they originate within the Forgotten Realms. Shit. Again, technically our SBA automatically fixes this (allows paradoxes to put characters at their strongest) but what the hell.
 
For the sake of a "fair" VS match they'll probably start off in the FR multiverse or an alternate version of it. But for the sake of a proper catalog his weakness would need to be noted.
 
Yes. I know. Just saying his matches would still be technically legitimate.
 
Thanks boyo.

Anything else on our plate for the deities?
 
IDK. Did we ever finalize lesser deity rankings? I assumed them and the strongest demon lords would be "At least 2-C" or something. This isn't accounting for Last Word Orcus, obviously.
 
Lesser and Intermediate Deities have a weird tier right now. They're either Low 2C or 2C. Demon Lords in their realms have a Low 2-C ranking.
 
Wasn't Demogorgon explicitly said to be able to warp several layers of the Abyss simultaneously? I feel like that might have been in Mordenkainen's, but I'd have to double check.
 
Wouldn't surprise me if he did, but depending on the edition the various planar realms may be finite in size.
 
> And that his robe only has stars drawn on it?

My guess would be that, assuming the stars are real, the cloth is a pocket dimension sort of thing. But that is somewhat of a stretch without more information.

> So I assume even in avatar Ao is > everyone else?

Avatars are just a portion of a gods' power usually . However a god can pump as much power into an avatar as they want to. Vecna's avatar in Die Vecna Die was the full physical manifestation of his power for example. So Ao's avatar could be his full strength or just a small fraction of it.
 
What Qawsed said, basically.
 
Looking through Mordenkainen's a bit, and there's some interesting stuff about Demon Lords.

  • The demon princes (referring here to the top demon lords) are said to shape the Abyss to their whim. They also wish to warp the very laws and structure of the universe to their liking. The book goes on to clarify it is completely possible for them to do this, if given the opportunity.
"The Abyss is a vast wound in the cosmic order, a bottomless pit teeming with creatures that exist only to rend, tear, and destroy. The demon princes, individual demons of great power and determination, bend and shape the Abyss and its inhabitants to meet their every whim. These mighty beings imagine themselves at the center of the cosmos. Each demon prince believes that the universe will one day be theirs to command, its laws and structure twisted and warped to match the demons' ideal of perfection.

The demon princes' arrogance is exceeded only by their ambition. While any rational being would dismiss their goals as empty ambitions sparked by madness, the truth remains that the demon princes and their thralls are among the mightiest forces in the planes. It is conceivable that, if the Blood War turns dramatically in their favor, the demon princes could put the rest of their apocalyptic plan in motion."

  • Demon lords have turned entire planes into layers of the Abyss.
"The visitation of a demon lord to the Material Plane is a cataclysmic event. The lord's presence overwhelms the minds of other beings to keep them from resisting, and the lord's power enables it to commad the other demons already present in the world. They form a horrid army that sets about stripping the world of life and clearing the path for the lord's dominance.

At this point, a besieged world's only hope for survival is the expulsion of the demon lord. The lord's defeat leaves the other demons again leaderless, and they react by warring against each other, which makes them susceptible to attacks from the world's defenders. The longer a demon lord remains in control of all the other fiends, the more the world around it becomes irrevocably changed. When a demonic incursion runs its course, no vestige remains of the world that existed before--in effect, the realm has become another layer of the Abyss."

  • Demon lords are said to hold sway over entire realms.
"If a demon survives for centuries, it accumulates changes to its form due to interaction with the energies of the Abyss. These long-lived demons often become demon lords, beings of such power that they can hold sway over entire realms within the Abyss."

  • Demon lords can shape the Abyss with nothing but their subconscious will, despite the Abyss being less pliable than somewhere like Limbo.
"The Abyss is a puzzle to those who seek to stufy demons and an attraction for those who seek power. It isn't as purely chaotic as Limbo nor as pliable, and yet demon lords can shape its essence by their subconscious will."

  • More confirmation that demon lords can control multiple layers simultaneously.
"The Abyss is a chaotic tangle of miniature worlds, each one shaped by the demon lord that claims primacy over it. Within the layers it controls, a demon lord manipulates conditions to match its view of how that world best serves the lord's desires."

  • Demogorgon's ultimate goal involves emptying the multiverse of everything living, leaving nothing but a void.
"His ultimate goal is to empty the multiverse of all other creatures, even his cultists. Free from any prospect of being betrayed or insulted, he can finally rest in a perfectly peaceful cosmos. According to one hypothesis, if Demogorgon were ever to achieve this end, his two heads would finally fight to the death, each devouring the other and leaving behind nothing but a void."


Also, a lot of our deity-level D&D pages seem to be missing a metric fuckton of powers.
 
How do you always have like 8 direct quotes on hand for whenever you feel like it do you just have folders on your computer of "quotes i may use for vsbw some day" or
 
I noticed powers were missing, was planning on borrowing some deity books (if the DM would let me, that bastard, love yah dad) to look for the deity's abilities, since they are all just like super basic stuff. And like, basic to the point of missing Weapon Mastery which they are holding in their profile picture.
 
> Demon lords have turned entire planes into layers of the Abyss.

From the look of that quote they can just take planets from the Material Plane and convert them into Abyss layers or combine them with their own. The others also don't imply the individual layers are all infinite in size.

> Also, a lot of our deity-level D&D pages seem to be missing a metric fuckton of powers.

Every page in DnD is missing a vast swath of abilities considering how much magic they can cast and everything they can resist.
 
> I noticed powers were missing, was planning on borrowing some deity books (if the DM would let me, that bastard, love yah dad) to look for the deity's abilities

I can link pictures of Gruumsh, Corellon Larethian, Vecna, and Orcus' stat blocks if you want
 
Also, this is a bit feat for Orcus, but he's stated to be capable of extinguishing every star in the Material Plane. However, this may scale to the "Outside of his realm" key.

"The bloated Demon Prince of the Undead seeks to end all life in the cosmos, replacing the living with immortal, undead creatures that answer only to him. In this grim future, the many suns of the Material Plane are extinguished, and all hope has faded away. All that remains is the eternally static realm of the living dead."
 
Hence all the revision threads, though we're almost done with the other RTs (just need that storm thing done).

After this one, maybe start a new thread with suggested abiltiies, if someone (Qawsed or someone else) feels like writing down the abilities each page should have. Again, I would, but I lack my own copies of the books. Maybe the library has them, though, could pay them a visit.
 
@Qawsed Would they contain all needed powers?
 
They list their feats, typical magic powers they've memorized and what clerical spheres they have control of.
 
Right. Yeah, do that, if you don't mind, and I'll have to look later for the other neat stuff they'd have (from lore notes). Thanks.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
> Demon lords have turned entire planes into layers of the Abyss.
From the look of that quote they can just take planets from the Material Plane and convert them into Abyss layers or combine them with their own. The others also don't imply the individual layers are all infinite in size.
Click to expand...
It's confirmed this can happen to worlds or entire planes, as the demon lord is destroying the boundary between the plane and the Abyss itself. While this is not confirmation of there being layers infinite in size, it is confirmation of there being layers universal in size, for 5e.

"The Abyss and its demonic inhabitants are akin to a virus. While most other factions across the planes spread their influence into other realms through conquest, conversion, or diplomacy, demons infect a world by travelling there and beginning to transform their environment to resemble the malleable, chaotic substance of their home plane. If demons dwell in a place for a significant amount of time, the area starts to warp in response to the abyssal energy that churns within it. If a demonic infestation is left unchecked, a portal to the Abyss is the result, and more and more of the essence of the Abyss pushes its way through. In time, a plane or a world could become a colony of the Abyss, overrun with demons and devoid of all other forms of life."
 
Hmm. Guess it can imply 3A to 2C levels of control for the Demon Lords.
 
We already have them at Low 2-C, likely 2-C though.
 
Also, this might be sort of a nitpick, but Orcus' keys should read "Outside of the Abyss" and "Inside the Abyss". Demon lords don't lose notable amounts of power when leaving their realms of the Abyss, as they routinely take layers from each other.

I can also almost guarantee Orcus is above High 6-A outside of the Abyss, as there's the quote about him extinguishing all of the Material Plane's stars, above.

Even ignoring that, he's literally stronger than a living planet in 4e, iirc.
 
Aren't Planewalkers a MtG thing? EDIT: Never mind I was thinking of another similar term.
 
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