Cueball revision

[DontTalkDT]

I made a revision thread some time ago, but I think that was probably too complicated and wordy and didn't go anywhere (with its 2 or something replies), so let's redo this with me restricting myself to some simpler points.
On the right you find all feats of the character.

For those not familiar with Turing Machines let me summarize what happens as follows:

An immortal human derives the entirety of the laws of physics and then uses that knowledge to run a very slow simulation of an universe on a computer. This universe is can be speculated to be the normal human universe.

With that on to the revision:

Stat upgrade
The current stats come from the fact that he can edit only one particle at a time.

However in that case you might as well downgrade any other character that destroyed/reprograms virtual worlds because they destroy/reprogram them one Bit at a time.

To that comes that if cueball simply stops moving the simulation stops, ending the universe as consequence. In other words he can freely pull the plug to the universe simulation and by that erase the universe.

Given that he should be 3-A.

Infinite speed downgrade
The infinite speed is given because if he doesn't do the steps in the simulation the universe won't progress. The problem with that assessment is obvious: If any character resists his power, or in other words isn't dependend on being simulated by cueball, he would fight a cueball with the speed of a normal human.

The difference is basically like the difference between an infinitely fast character and a character with passive time stop. It seems the same as long as nobody resists, but in fiction it makes a huge difference.

Intelligence downgrade
Supergenius seems appropiate, nigh-omniscient not.

Since I wish to avoid the long winded explanation on turing machines I gave in the last thread let's just say: A programmer can run a game he made on a computer and yet he would not be nigh-omniscient regarding that game given that he does not actually know everything that happens in a moment, but only the rules (sourcecode) based on which the things happen. For example a programmer could not tell you the optimal way to go through a level or how a set of complicated interactions between game objects will end up (otherwise physics simulations would be useless....).

 

[DontTalkDT]

bump

 

[GyroNutz]

Simulation or no simulation, he's moving the rocks one by one. Is there any proof he can 'pull the plug' on it all and just destroy the universe at once?

 

[DontTalkDT]

What do you think happens if he simply decides to sit down and do nothing from now on?

Since the entire simulation depends on him moving the rocks everything would just stop. End of history. In analogy it is stopping the universe program he is running.

And as said the "he moves one rock at a time" is a questionable argument in my opinion, as every other universe simulation we have basically does the same (changes bits one at a time).

Edit: Consider it like this: He already controls everything at once. Even if he takes time on doing the changes he actually prevents everything else from changing.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that this should probably be fine.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

If he just sits down and does nothing, he's not really destroying anything. He's just not letting it progress.

 

[DontTalkDT]

If he just sits down and does nothing, he's not really destroying anything. He's just not letting it progress.

Well on one hand, I am quite sure that stopping everything in the universe dead in its tracks, not through time stop but through what is essentially reality warping, is already a universal feat. As said it already is at the "controls everything in the universe"-stage of things.

On the other hand see it like this: From the last instant he simulates there is no future anymore. Imagine you time travel 1 second into the universes future, after the last instant he stopped the simulation. You would find nothingness, since that second never exists. In that universes timeline everything would just disappear in the instant he stops, since it will never be created.


What about my other two points btw.?

 

[GyroNutz]

For the record, I agree with your other two points

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I agree with downgrading his speed and intelligence. I just don't think he should be universal.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well, I will apply what was agreed on then.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is fine.

 

[DontTalkDT]

To ask one more question, since I don't want to do another thread just for that:

Should he have Plot Manipulation and Small Size?

I don't know where plot manipulation comes from at all.

Small size seems like a misconception to me. He does not have an avatar inside the simulation, does he? Comparing the size of outside and inside the simulation wouldn't really make sense.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not sure about the infinite speed downgrade.

His 3-A rating is dependent on the opponent being in the universe he's simulating, so the speed rating should be decided similarly, and be left at infinite, right?

 

[Antvasima]

If there is no reason for plot manipulation and small size, you can remove them, yes.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm not sure about the infinite speed downgrade.
His 3-A rating is dependent on the opponent being in the universe he's simulating, so the speed rating should be decided similarly, and be left at infinite, right?

Well, for one thing if we make his speed infinite there is 0 excuse to not make him 3-A.

However, 3-A or not, the opponent would for that key per default be assumed to be inside his universe. That doesn't mean infinite speed, because, as explained above, if you can resist his power over you then you will also not be bound by only moving if he does his simulation of you. Hence you wouldn't be frozen like the rest of the universe and experience him editing stuff in real time instead.

 

[Agnaa]

For you to "resist his power over you" wouldn't you need to be able to move in stopped time?

Perhaps a note should be added to the profile explaining this unique case?

 

[Agnaa]

Is it really accurate to have his speed in-simulation at normal human? It should be below average human, he has to lift and rearrange rocks at normal human speed to have the tiniest movement within that simulation.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Not really in stopped time as much as resist reality warping. Real time still progresses after all.

That things usually don't happen without his power is already documented.


As I mentioned I don't think he has any in-universe avatar. He only does out of universe movement and that he does at normal human speed. His keys are different perspectives more than different avatars or forms.

 

[Blahblah9755]

As Cueball can freely move forwards and backwards through the universe's time just by walking through different lines of the code, wouldn't Cueball's speed from the simulated universe's perspective actually be immeasurable?

I agree with the intelligence thing for sure btw.

 

[Agnaa]

Real time still progresses, but the opponent would have to be in the simulated universe for the 10-C attacks and all his abilities to apply. Meaning both that time would be stopped in the simulation for opponents, and that his speed should reference how quickly his interactions propagate through the rock simulation.

Also, from the perspective of being inside of the rock simulation, shouldn't he have Type 9 immortality for existing outside of that simulation?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

You mean type 9?

 

[Agnaa]

Yes, my bad.

 

[DontTalkDT]

As Cueball can freely move forwards and backwards through the universe's time just by walking through different lines of the code, wouldn't Cueball's speed from the simulated universe's perspective actually be immeasurable?

Hmm... since different from a normal turing machine all the prior iterations are preserved one could possibly argue that. Then again it is a very strange thing in that regards, as any changes he does to the past will not affect the presence.

How simulation transcribes to reality here would be the question. Quite possibly it has basically no meaning.

If that were accepted, though, that would mean he can remove all stones in an instant, which would make him Low 2-C.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Also, from the perspective of being inside of the rock simulation, shouldn't he have Type 9 immortality for existing outside of that simulation?

I'm not really sure how type 9 works, tbh. Wouldn't that be the immortality his in simulation avatar would have, not the one he himself has? If so, it fails at the lack of an in simulation avatar.

Essentially he only exists outside the simulation, which is the same plain he can be killed on.

 

[Blahblah9755]

It actually would have an impact on the future. For instance: If you remove a line meaning "create particle x" particle x will never exist and all lines of code pertaining to it will just be junk. If you remove a line meaning "move particle x three steps right" that movement to the right will never occur which completely changes its position and interactions throughout the future. These can also change what happens to any particle that has a line that causes it to interact with particle x, since they might not meet at the original point in time or space anymore, or might not meet at all.

Should he have acausality, causality manipulation, and law manipulation?

Acausality because he's completely unaffected by the rock simulation's causality.

Causality manipulation because he controls how every particle interacts and could change the causality of how they do so.

Law manipulation because he chose to create the world as a physics simulation, but could create it in any other way he wants if he just programmed that instead.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

On the topic of law manipulation

He took an awfully long time to work out all the kinks in the laws of physics. While he could probably remove those laws, it would likely take him an equally long time to come up with a functioning set of new laws.

 

[Agnaa]

I'd think that a character that can change laws, but takes a while to get exactly which laws they want, would still be said to have law manipulation.

He could change some fundamental constant and not get exactly what he expects, but still have law manip, right?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He'd still have it, just would need to take a long while to think things through if he wants to program an entirely new law.

 

[Agnaa]

For something specific, sure. For scrambling physics and chemistry so matter as we know it doesn't exist, that would be quick.

 

[Blahblah9755]

I mean, he takes an awful long time to do just about anything. And also, the set of laws he gave the world were something incredibly complex because he was deriving and creating fully realistic laws of physics, if he decided to change the universe to something like rpg logic, it would only take about as long as programming an rpg in binary would.

 

[Agnaa]

That's also why I don't agree with "average human" for his speed. It takes ages for him to make any change to a simulation, so I don't think any metric would give you his "in simulation" speed as being average human. Outside of simulation sure, but they're different keys.