• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Cthulhu Mythos

Hat_mchat

Hat_mchat

430
279
(I think I'm permitted to make this thread in accordance with forum rules, feel free to close it immediately if this is not allowed or if it is just the wrong board to post to.)

I've become quite interested in the Cthulhu Mythos and I would very much like to get into actually reading it. I'd just like some advice on some things. First of all, can you recommend an anthology containing all or most of the Cthulhu Mythos stories? I'd like to note that I'm only interested in original stories by H.P Lovecraft.

Secondly, what order do you recommend reading the stories in, or at least what story should i begin with.

Thirdly, what style of writing should i expect, what narrative am i likely to be presented by? Is it first person point of view, is it like reading a diary etc.?

Fourthly, what story do you personally like the most?

Finally, is it actually an enjoyable read? Is it a casual read that you can pick up anywhere or does it require intense focus?

Thsnk you for your time.
 
1. H.P. Lovecraft: The Complete Fictio can be purchased for about $25 US online. It contains all stories ever written by Lovecraft himself that are part of the Mythos. If you do not mind reading them digitally, all of said stories can be found here completely legally, as Lovecraft left his stories public domain.

2. There are only a few stories in the Mythos that have a set order/narrative to follow, while the others are separate and can be read in any order.

The stories that should be read in order are the stories featuring Randolph Carter. They are:

  • The Statement of Randolph Carter
  • The Unamable (Minor story that does not really affect the rest of the narrative)
  • The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath
  • The Silver Key
  • The Case of Charles Dexter Ward (Another Minor story that does not affect the rest of the narrative)
  • Through the Gates of the Silver Key
  • Out of the Aeons (Basically a cameo after Through the Gates)
As for other stories you should read first, some of my personal suggestions are:

  • The Call of Cthulhu
  • The Colour out of Space
  • The Dunwich Horror
  • Dagon
  • The Music of Erich Zann
3. Depends entirely on the story. Some are told from the perspective of an omniscient narrator, others are written as if discovered in journals, and yet more are told from the perspective of the protagonist.

4. Guess I answered this in #2.

5. Lovecraft's writing is not for everyone, but few require intense focus. Many of his stories are only a couple to a dozen or so pages long, while his absolute longest is basically a short novella. You will be expected to read rather esoteric language and terminology (not quite like reading Shakespeare, but getting there. Reading early Tolkien may be a good comparison), but aside from that it doesn't require immense focus unless you are combing it for deeper meaning.
 
So i assume the complete fiction does then have all Lovecraft Cthulhu Mythos tales?

Azathoth, do you prefer Tolkien or Lovecraft?
 
Yeah, it does.

I couldn't really compare them, because their genres are so different. They are two of my favorite horror and fantasy writers, respectively.
 
Ok back at this thread again: Does the Cthulhu Mythos have the same scale of lore as Tolkien's Lord of the Rings?
 
No. Much of it is left intentionally vague, as you are not meant to be able to fully comprehend many of the higher things in the lore. There is a lot of background, but many things remain purposefully unanswered. In Tolkien's case, you have stuff like the Silmarillion, which acts pretty much as a history book to everything prior to the Third Age.
 
What?! There's a website where you can read all of Lovecraft's work? Ever since I've played Bloodborne, I've been interested in reading his stuff!
 
From what I've seen lovecraft loves mad adjectives, can't get enough of them, suspiciously almost like he predicted that this wiki would be created and he is just trying as many descriptions as possible until he hits that tier 1-A 'boundlessness' mark.

Well my question is this: is it difficult to understand what is going on in terms of the words he uses? Do i need a dictionary at hand to check up on every other word?
 
Nah. Most words off his stuff will be pretty straightforward for anyone with a mid-level or above understanding of English, though some composition might be a bit obscure. A few stories are less straightforward than others, but it doesn't feel like you're reading another language (except when written in another language).
 
This is a question about power in the mythos: I sort of got this impression but wasn't sure: Are the outer gods above all concepts as well as being beyond dimensional space? I read your respect thread and got the picture that even 1-A beings were unfathomably insignificant to the outer gods.
 
Why did hypnos go crazy when he went to the ultimate void but randolph carter was just: "oh nice"?
 
MeleeniumRXJ said:
Is the term Outerverse based off of his term for Outer Gods?
Click to expand...

The Outer Void concept actually pushed me to the idea of calling dimensionless realms this way.
 
Well, he kinda wasn't. He completely lost his entire sense of self.

"And then, suddenly, he felt a greater terror than that which any of the Forms could give—a terror from which he could not flee because it was connected with himself. Even the First Gateway had taken something of stability from him, leaving him uncertain about his bodily form and about his relationship to the mistily defined objects around him, but it had not disturbed his sense of unity. He had still been Randolph Carter, a fixed point in the dimensional seething. Now, beyond the Ultimate Gateway, he realised in a moment of consuming fright that he was not one person, but many persons."
 
At least he didn't die. I re-read hypnos and yog sothoth, but i couldn't find a specific reference to the outer gods being beyond all concepts. Also did yog sothoth 'benevolently' help carter keep his identity of self?
 
@Hat

Considering Carter's status afterwards, I doubt it.

Anyway, here's these if they help.

  • This is merely beyond the first gate, and even then, the reality Carter experiences is something that is totally undimensioned and something that can not be put into any sort of words.
"Memory and imagination shaped dim half-pictures with uncertain outlines amidst the seething chaos, but Carter knew that they were of memory and imagination only. Yet he felt that it was not chance which built these things in his consciousness, but rather some vast reality, ineffable and undimensioned, which surrounded him and strove to translate itself into the only symbols he was capable of grasping. For no mind of earth may grasp the extensions of shape which interweave in the oblique gulfs outside time and the dimensions we know."

  • The sheer "scale" (if one can call it that) of the beings beyond the gate transcends any and all conceptions of size, being, and boundaries.
"While most of the impressions translated themselves to Carter as words, there were others to which other senses gave interpretation. Perhaps with eyes and perhaps with imagination he perceived that he was in a region of dimensions beyond those conceivable to the eye and brain of man. He saw now, in the brooding shadows of that which had been first a vortex of power and then an illimitable void, a sweep of creation that dizzied his senses. From some inconceivable vantage-point he looked upon prodigious forms whose multiple extensions transcended any conception of being, size, and boundaries which his mind had hitherto been able to hold, despite a lifetime of cryptical study. He began to understand dimly why there could exist at the same time the little boy Randolph Carter in the Arkham farmhouse in 1883, the misty form on the vaguely hexagonal pillar beyond the First Gate, the fragment now facing the PRESENCE in the limitless abyss, and all the other "Carters" his fancy or perception envisaged."

  • The very idea of change itself is a lie. It is merely from the perspective of beings restricted to conventional reality (and even beyond, in many cases). All conceptions of everything are based on perspective that can ultimately never be true, for truth is relative.
"Time, the waves went on, is motionless, and without beginning or end. That it has motion, and is the cause of change, is an illusion. Indeed, it is itself really an illusion, for except to the narrow sight of beings in limited dimensions there are no such things as past, present, and future. Men think of time only because of what they call change, yet that too is illusion. All that was, and is, and is to be, exists simultaneously.

These revelations came with a godlike solemnity which left Carter unable to doubt. Even though they lay almost beyond his comprehension, he felt that they must be true in the light of that final cosmic reality which belies all local perspectives and narrow partial views; and he was familiar enough with profound speculations to be free from the bondage of local and partial conceptions. Had his whole quest not been based upon a faith in the unreality of the local and partial?"

  • The Outer Gods, on the other hand, are beyond all perspective. They simply are and are not.
"But the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will."
 
"From some inconceivable vantage-point he looked upon prodigious forms whose multiple extensions transcended any conception of being, size, and boundaries which his mind had hitherto been able to hold, despite a lifetime of cryptical study."

That is quite good evidence for conceptual transcendence, however i didn't quite understand this quote:

"But the entities outside the Gates command all angles, and view the myriad parts of the cosmos in terms of fragmentary, change-involving perspective, or of the changeless totality beyond perspective, in accordance with their will."

What exactly does it mean by 'command all angles' and by 'changeless totality'.

Furthermore, again I'm talking about power in the mythos because well hey this is the vs battle wiki, if all these archetypes - which i understand to be dimensionless beings that are the totality of all parallel versions of a being - transcend all concepts, why aren't they all 'High 1-A'. For example, Featherine from Umineko is high 1-A due to her complete transcendence of all hierachies.

What separates featherine from these archetypes? Am i actually mis-interpreting the text to mean that the archetypes transcend concepts when they don't?

Finally, are the archetypes outer gods? Are they lesser than well-defined outer gods like nyarlathotep? If they aren't outer gods, how do they compare to outer gods?

Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions and i apologise if this is becoming frustrating for you and if my ignorance is showing.
 
It's not a problem, at all.

"Command all angles" refers to the fact that all angles of space-time are merely fractional perspective of these entities, which exist only because they allow it. "Changeless totality" refers to the fact that they are beyond all forms of perspective, as stated earlier. From the perspective of a being who is a denizen of a lower world to beings who transcend all forms of space-time, their perspective is just that; a flawed perspective. The Outer Gods view all that is and is not as its true state, which is a changeless totality, for change is an illusion.

High 1-A is, in most cases, a positioning thing in terms of hierarchies that get this advanced. High 1-A and 0 end up being very conceptual tiers not always directly governed by "how much stronger is this character?". The majority of the archetypes are very high-end 1-A, but not quite High 1-A (along with the Mist and the Darkness, but they are very likely coterminous to Yog), as that is a position occupied by Yog-Sothoth, who technically composes all of them. The only thing "beyond" that is Azathoth. Similar to how Featherine has ascended to the very last step below the Creator, but does not go farther, for she would no longer be Featherine.

That said, you are correct in that they are very powerful 1-A entities, and due to their nature, you'd be hard pressed to find a High 1-A that could actually "destroy" or "erase" them.

The archetypes are the Outer Gods, yes. They are referred to as "the archetypes" within Through the Gates of the Silver Key as they are indeed the archetypes of everything, for everything on all layers is but a fractional perception of them cut in a different way.

Nyarlathotep's true self likely exists on the same level as them, despite him being classed as the messenger of the Outer Gods. It's important to note that the true Nyar is likely never seen, as even the Nyar in The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath reveals he is but one of the entity's many avatars in his last encounter with Randolph Carter.

"Go now—the casement is open and the stars await outside. Already your shantak wheezes and titters with impatience. Steer for Vega through the night, but turn when the singing sounds. Forget not this warning, lest horrors unthinkable suck you into the gulf of shrieking and ululant madness. Remember the Other Gods; they are great and mindless and terrible, and lurk in the outer voids. They are good gods to shun.

Hei! Aa-shanta 'nygh! You are off! Send back earth's gods to their haunts on unknown Kadath, and pray to all space that you may never meet me in my thousand other forms. Farewell, Randolph Carter, and beware; for I am Nyarlathotep, the Crawling Chaos!" - Nyarlathotep, The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath
 
In original canon, yeah. It's basically just a title and refers to their status. It's kind of like how Yog-Sothoth is referred to as multiple times in the story as other things, including "All-in-One and One-in-All", "the Being", "the limitless Mind", "the Presence", etc. They are all just fractional titles other things supply to Yog, because trying to ascribe it any sort of limited sense of self goes against its very nature.
 
What EU writers don't get is that the mythology of the Outer Gods with names, roles, histories and personalities is meant to be innacurate in-universe. It is simply the way that lower being try to comprehend the Outer Gods.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Zarcrod
Cthulhu mythos CRT: Azatoth tier 0
Replies
7
Views
2K
Maskofthedragon
Maskofthedragon
Livinmeme
Most complicated verse
Replies
3
Views
629
Swordsaint456
Swordsaint456
IdiosyncraticLawyer
  • Locked
Superficial Cthulhu Mythos CRT
Replies
3
Views
2K
Elizhaa
Elizhaa
Tdjwo
  • Locked
The Truth About The Outer Gods in Nasuverse.
Replies
24
Views
5K
Antvasima
Antvasima
IdiosyncraticLawyer
  • Locked
Cthulhu Mythos: Removing Nonduality/Transduality
Replies
32
Views
4K
IdiosyncraticLawyer
IdiosyncraticLawyer
Back
Top