• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Cosmic cube durability downgrade

Imagine giving examples of Toon Force characters as valid. You DO know Marvel isn't a comedy series where the competence of a character isn't dependent on the gag they're doing and DOESN'T shift every 5 seconds? And they do have valid reasons to be Varies, because Toon Force is directly responsible for that, there are bajillion instances where cartoon characters are magically far stronger than their regular showcase and get massive muscles to pull off an insane feat. They're straight up ignoring physics at that point, that's why we list them as having that.

And yes, he can't destroy it because the thing has 2-A stats listed for it and it isn't changing its power level. This is just ignoring its showcase on your end at this point to think a 10-C can just "break" the Cosmic Cube.

It isn't wrong because we don't know what the hell it's dura is at any point because it's a plot device that bends to whatever the writer wants, and our statistic is representing that. Saying that "oh it changes it's power level" is what is the massively wrong statement.
 
You DO know Marvel isn't a comedy series where the competence of a character isn't dependent on the gag they're doing and DOESN'T shift every 5 seconds? And they do have valid reasons to be Varies, because Toon Force is directly responsible for that, there are bajillion instances where cartoon characters are magically far stronger than their regular showcase and get massive muscles to pull off an insane feat. They're straight up ignoring physics at that point, that's why we list them as having that.

And yes, he can't destroy it because the thing has 2-A stats listed for it and it isn't changing its power level. This is just ignoring its showcase on your end at this point to think a 10-C can just "break" the Cosmic Cube.

It isn't wrong because we don't know what the hell it's dura is at any point because it's a plot device that bends to whatever the writer wants, and our statistic is representing that. Saying that "oh it changes it's power level" is what is the massively wrong statement.
That is true, but from my point of view giving a Varies to this cubes any civilization and person can create with seemingly different amounts of power (based on their feats, not our stats) is less crazy than our classic and modern keys some characters have. The Varies wouldn't mean that a cube can shift its durability every 5 seconds, but that a cube in all its lifetime may have 1 durability while other can always have other durability.

You did recommend Unknown, I talked based on that Unknown, idk what 2-A stats you're talking about. When WS destroy it, if we were to accept that as something that can happen, then the cube's dura is on WS's level or lower, the lesser the more likely, when Marvel destroyed it the same applies but Marvel was after like 4 panels of Thanos aging him to death. If we do accept those cases to be a thing then we can only say the dura is 10-C as it has no proof of anything higher, there's no "we don't know" as we do know a minimum.
 
I mean if "any civilization and person can create it" and you're purporting they different statistics, it shouldn't be composited like this anyways and have multiple profiles.

Again I don't particularly mind it being 10-C if it has feats for it, but to my knowledge that thing can be thrown around and doesn't get damaged in the slightest, so it wouldn't be 10-C regardless.

Also you don't know the minimum, again, when has a human just throw the Cosmic Cube and it shattered into a billion pieces? If there is a feat for this please show it, alongside the Cube tanking something far higher. Winter Soldier is still 9-A/8-C, not 10-B.

You're argument at this point is just... confusing. You're saying it's a Variable in power level except it's not. You're saying it has different versions except you're compositing all of them. You're saying it is 10-C for being destroyed by a 9-A. I think at this point you barely know what you're arguing here tbh :V
 
The profile's called "Cosmic Cubes" (even tho it should be on singular), it simply needs to acount for cubes that look like any other cube and are just called Cosmic Cubes. 10-C things can get thrown around with no damage, otherwise getting thrown around would be a 10-B dura feat. They don't scale to WS, it got destroyed by him, assuming we do give the cubes durability based on those lower feats then they're no different than any other character/thing whose only durability feat is getting one-shot by WS and an almost dead Marvel.

But, I did some research and things just got a bit more complicated; based on the pages the All-New Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe had about the Cosmic Cube (here, here and here):
  • Cubes may or may not have their full potential unlocked, or be incomplete, and stories may not hint this in any way until some other story may do so (For example, a nascent cube could not remake the universe to match Dr. Doom's dreams because the change was too massive)
  • Kubik is an adult form of a cube whereas others are recontextualized as young and newborn ones.
  • The cube WS crushed was an imperfect one.
  • The Magus didn't use 5 cubes to defeat Eternity, he used 1 Cosmic Cubes and 4 other extradimensional Cosmic Containment Units, said not to be cubes. The so-called defeat also never happened, only the part where Eternity was left catatonic, which is kinda hax.
  • They should have Dimensional Travel as they were use to sent Keeper and Kubik into another dimension and Cap into other dimensions.
  • Cloth Manip as armor was made due to one.
  • Summoning as RS used one summon demonic beings against Cap.
  • More Size Manip as RS used it to shrink Cap.
  • Possession as RS used to switch his body wth Cap's, and later used an imperfect one to transfer his consciousness into the mind of his assassin.
  • Accelerated Development for itself as 1 began erratically developing power over various years.
  • Low-Godly Regen for its user as the RS, while reduced to a living shadow, was shown by Korvac "how to physically recreate himself with the Cube's powers inside his new body", but the cube didn't grant any ability to still think while having his body was gone, RS was just lucky to be transmuted that way.
Of course, this is the Handbook's take on the events and not the real context, if anyone can help out by pointing out the stories where each thing happened then that would be neat. That said, many conclusions can be made from this, which I'll go over other day.
 
Last edited:
The cosmic containment units were clearly very strongly implied to be the versions of cosmic cubes assembled from other realities. A sufficient amount of them could also fuse together into a larger cosmic egg.
 
An imperfect cube getting destroyed by Winter Soldier implies it's below 9-A. How are you getting a 10-C statistic aside from random guesswork on your end? You don't know the low end here, you just know it's below 9-A, that's it.

How is it a Varies if you don't know it's high end? Please show an example where the Cosmic Cube tanked something.

Your logic for "varies" is: Assuming the low end definitely is 10-C for being destroyed by a 9-A (who is explicitly stronger than other 9-As btw) and not ANY values between them, and assuming it has tanked stuff from anyone.

That thing is getting Unknown unless you get proof that it is 10-C i.e getting destroyed by a 10-C or 10-B source. Listing it 10-C off your convenience here is lazy in addition to dishonest, and in this scenario if you want to propose a Varies as well, find an equal amount of feats for it tanking far higher attack.

Rest of the stuff feels like it's a different CRT requiring research, and somewhat unrelated to the scope of this one. Feel free to make a Cosmic Cube CRT when you get suitable research to justify your points :V
 
The cosmic containment units were clearly very strongly implied to be the versions of cosmic cubes assembled from other realities. A sufficient amount of them could also fuse together into a larger cosmic egg.
Were they? I fuzzily remember Infinity War and still don't know how Magus survived being erased with his timeline, but I'll look that up. In any case, its first page in the handbook points out how the exact nature of that powers the Beyonders gave depended on the universe in which it was brought and that Earth 616 had them as Cosmic Cubes, so they need to be pointed out to not be the same.
An imperfect cube getting destroyed by Winter Soldier implies it's below 9-A. How are you getting a 10-C statistic aside from random guesswork on your end? You don't know the low end here, you just know it's below 9-A, that's it.

How is it a Varies if you don't know it's high end? Please show an example where the Cosmic Cube tanked something.

Your logic for "varies" is: Assuming the low end definitely is 10-C for being destroyed by a 9-A (who is explicitly stronger than other 9-As btw) and not ANY values between them, and assuming it has tanked stuff from anyone.

That thing is getting Unknown unless you get proof that it is 10-C i.e getting destroyed by a 10-C or 10-B source. Listing it 10-C off your convenience here is lazy in addition to dishonest, and in this scenario if you want to propose a Varies as well, find an equal amount of feats for it tanking far higher attack.

Rest of the stuff feels like it's a different CRT requiring research, and somewhat unrelated to the scope of this one. Feel free to make a Cosmic Cube CRT when you get suitable research to justify your points :V
It's not random. It can have WS's tier or anything lower down to 10-C, it showed basically no feats on any level and so 10-C is logical.

I did say that whoever made the cube with 2-A durability should be asked about it, don't ask me about something already on the profile.

Then again, any thing whose only durability feat is to get destroyed by WS is no reason to start talking about WS's tier, because the thing doesn't scale. The one Marvel destroyed the handbook implies was yet to reach its full potential, but without being imperfect, and I'm comfortable at saying it had 10-C dura given that it was destroyed after Thanos did this to Marvel.

No? The title says that it wants to downgrade the cube's dura, and here I ask; do we know if the cubes change their durability based on them being imperfect, not imperfect, yet to reach their full power, with their full power reached, newly born and adult? The rest of what I listed before can wait as I can bring it up some other day, but for this thread let's see what whoever may want to defend just 2-A durability has to say about those points.
 
Not really, no. Just because it is featless and destroyed by a 9-'A, doesn't mean it automatically becomes 10-C, that's downplay on your end.
 
I am genuinely not going to compromise over this, listing it as 10-C would be the most ridiculous wank I have heard, and haven't seen any other verse do this shit.
 
Also the feat you linked would just support an Unknown lol, since we don't know jack about Marvel's stats in that instance
 
Would 9-A to 2-A variable durability be more warranted, or is Unknown durability preferable?
 
Unknown is definitely more warranted in this case. We know it's below 9-A and nothing else.
 
So eh, what's else left to do here?
Cuz there're several CRTs being held by this CRT (Which isn't that important imo)
 
I think that you can probably add unknown durability.
 
I know absolutely nothing about the whole winter soldier stuff, or the cosmic cube stuff in general, but I found this if it helps:



This was taken from Captain America (2005) issue 14.
 
Last edited:
I suppose that could work, yes. So do you prefer a 9-A durability for the unevolved cubes and a 2-A rating for the entities that have evolved from them then?
 
Okay. Building level durability for unevolved cubes then.

Is somebody willing to apply the change?
 
If someone could summarize what the justifications should be, I’ll do it.
 
I do not have the time. Is somebody else willing to handle it?

I can unlock the page if you mention the exact title here.
 
The page is already unlocked. Somebody who knows what they are doing should apply this.
 
Can someone for the love of god say what is to be put in the page?
I went through the CRT and I got no idea if there's suppose to be now 2 Keys in general because Ant mentioned unevolved Cosmic Cube and no one said anything against that
 
Either way can we just open Tracer's CRT since this one basically finished and we just need to edit the page?
 
The_Impress:

What did we decide as a durability rating for unevolved cosmic cubes?
 
8-C

Annoying thing is that I don't think it should be a page in general now as we have learnt different Cosmic Cube's capabilities vary greatly, so it's a pseudo-composite rather than an accurate profile.
 
Okay. I think that a few other characters scale from it, but Marvel cosmic entity scaling is based on misleading and exaggerated composite cosmology, despite recurrent retcons and contradictions, yes.
 
No but this isn't even compositing different writer interpretations, it is straight up compositing in-canon unrelated objects.

This would be like compositing all of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents or something.
 
That is a good point. Undeveloped cosmic cubes are officially supposed to be of a similar power level to each other though.

In any case, if we delete the page, we would need to update all of the character profile pages that currently contain statistics keys derived from when they possessed a cosmic cube, so it might be better if we just try to clean it up instead.
 
Well, the problem is that most characters that have possessed a cosmic cube have not actually performed any universal feats with them, so assuming that they all used different cubes with different power levels seems very impractical to apply, as it would result in lots of unknown statistics.
 
Back
Top