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Corvo Attano vs Alex Mercer
- Thread starter Arcker123
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No not that I know of.
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Yeah, but he doesn't use sleep darts, he just goes for the kill. Although, as I said, if he has knowledge of his opponent and his absorption via touch ability, then him going for ranged weaponry makes sense.
What other methods of incap?
He can't stop time forever or anything, nor does his possession last forever either.
The only thing I could possibly see him doing is injuring Mercer and not allowing him to regenerate, as, IIRC, Mercer needs to fresh biomass from another living thing to regenerate, especially on a Low-High level, since that is how you regain health during gameplay and in the cutscene, after he was nuked, he remained as meaty strains and blood until a crow pecked at him, thinking it was food, in which he absorbed it and regenerated completely.
I don't think that Alex can regen on his own, but it has been a long time since I actually played Prototype. So maybe Corvo can just cut him down and then stay out of Alex's range to incap.
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Corvo actually doesnt normally go for the kill in-canon, the only person he has ever canonically killed is Havelock
Arcker123
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Again, I am pretty sure a living virus constructed from a dead person that never sleeps or even gets tired is going to be able to fall unconscious. Or be affected by a chemical substance meant to induce such a state.
I think what I said about cutting Alex into pieces is a much better wincon.
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Well, the Dishonored 2 opening implies that maybe Corvo got harsher after 15 years.
He instantly went for the kill on the traitorous guards and Delilah, so I think it will go either way, especially if he has knowledge on his opponent
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I feel either Corvo incaps Alex by cutting him to pieces while not allowing him any fresh biomass to regenerate (Again, I am pretty sure how that works, and if I am right, Alex needs to have a note that says that his regeneration isn't very explicable for 1v1 fights), or Alex just absorbs Corvo.
Actually, speaking of that, what is the AP value for these guys? Can Corvo even severely hurt Alex?
Actually, speaking of that, what is the AP value for these guys? Can Corvo even severely hurt Alex?
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Corvo can possess corpses and zombies actually
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It's not the idea that Alex can't be possessed that I have a problem with, although, physically merging your body and mind to another on a character which absorbs the biomass of that which he touches doesn't sound like the best idea ever, but I digress.
My problem is that I am pretty sure that you can't just put Alex to sleep, since he is a virus that contains the consciousness of a dead person and doesn't ever run out of stamina.
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I think any part of his biomass that interacts with another can absorb another's biomass, but I don't remember this happening in-game.
Also, I think the win-con I had for Corvo was thrown out the window, I was partly wrong, Alex on his own does have a regeneration factor without the absorption of fresh biomass, as seen here where he instantly regenerated having his arm cut off twice.
Maybe cutting his head off, or cutting him in half might work, but it is possible that it doesn't, and that he only needs fresh biomass if he remains as nothing but a puddle of meat and blood.
Also, I think the win-con I had for Corvo was thrown out the window, I was partly wrong, Alex on his own does have a regeneration factor without the absorption of fresh biomass, as seen here where he instantly regenerated having his arm cut off twice.
Maybe cutting his head off, or cutting him in half might work, but it is possible that it doesn't, and that he only needs fresh biomass if he remains as nothing but a puddle of meat and blood.
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I mean he can still be conscious even with his head blown open.
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He was still conscious as a pile of goo, that doesn't mean that he can regenerate from that on his own.
But it's a possibility and likely a probability that he could, so I can't say if Corvo has a legitimate win condition here.
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Corvo reduces th things h kills to ash including things that can regnrate normally
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Gravehounds that can regen from their disembodied skull
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From what I can tell its .0056 tons scaling from destroying tanks
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Alex's physiology is way different than a human or animal's, really only sharing aesthetic similarities, so I doubt sleep dart is gonna work on him. Corvo could incap by just using time stop and pulping him with spring razors, explosive bolts and bullets, etc. Though I did see that Mercer can manipulate his density and make his matter comparable to hard, strong metal, so perhaps he could raise his durability with that?
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Shadow kill does not bypass Mercer's regeneration. From what I can gather, the feat Gravehounds does with their skill involves them being turned into glowing skulls after they were defeated, in which the player (Corvo/Emily) have to destroy the skull to end them... And from what I can gather, the Gravehounds coming from their glowing skulls was described as resurrection even from the Dishonoured wikia, which is not regeneration as regeneration and resurrection are two different things. At best, it could be somewhat assumed that Shadow Kill could deal with resurrection (although only types of resurrection that is dependent on the body still being intact, as Shadow Kill only counters resurrection if the bodies are also destroyed as well as in the case of the Gravehounds' skulls, as proven by the demonstration that Shadow Kill does not prevent Gravehounds from tunring into their skull states after being defeated), not regeneration.
Also, as for that Shadow Kill ability, the description of the ability is as this for even its max upgrade "Turn all enemies to ash as they die."...
... One big factor to note about that ability, which is "as they die". Mercer's regenerative abilities prevents him from "dying" in the first place. Corvo would need to damage to the extent that it bypasses Low-High regeneration for him to even be able to kill characters of such regeneration to qualify those characters as "dead" in the first place, which is not going to happen with AP alone as Corvo's AP isn't 8-A or Tier 7 to even be assumed that he could do things such as Vapourise via higher AP advantage with both of them being 9-A in this match. As for Corvo's AP advantage, that is not going to matter in this fight considering 12x AP advantage makes no significant difference against Low-High regeneration as those values aren't even enough to assume Vapourisation via AP. Considering Mercer's Type 1, 2, 3 and 7 Immortality (along with canonical statements where Mercer doesn't fit the classifications of living or dead, along with his own statements of being being beyond Life and Death in Prototype 2), it's very arguable that Corvo could even put Mercer in a "dying" state to begin with. Shadow Kill is more of an ability that disposes bodies of killed targets rather than actually turn living targets to ash.
And that AP difference is going to be made less significant with Mercer's Musclemass ability, which doubles his strength in all areas, thus the 12x AP advantage would get reduced to 6x AP advantage once that happens. Also, Mercer's AP is probably higher than just destroying M1 Abrams tanks as Mercer was shown to withstand explosions such as that one explosion that levelled an entire room and blasted him out of the building (with the flames from the explosion covering a notable range around the building he was in) and also that one explosion that devastated the entire building in the Military base he was in - it's just that nobody has tried to calc those explosions for Mercer before, so they aren't used in Mercer's profile for his AP yet.
Also, many statements in this thread about Mercer requiring biomass to regenerate is not quite correct. Mercer can regenerate without biomass or absorbing biomass. Depleting his biomass reserves does make his regeneration speed slower, but it does not stop his regeneration altogether. Not only did Mercer regenerate a notably large hole in his head without absorbing anything when General Randall shot him in the head while he was in disguise, but the Supreme Hunter (a parasite/creature made from Alex Mercer's own DNA, and notably inherited similar abilities to Mercer such as shapeshifting and absorption) was capable of regenerating from a puddle as shown when it reformed a hand, a regeneration which Mercer should also scale to due to the Supreme Hunter's capabilities being deprived from Alex Mercer's own DNA as shown by Alex Mercer's profile stating that his healing capabilities being similar to the Supreme Hunter's. Not only that, but the existence of Health Regeneration upgrade (an upgrade which is present in the Prototype series) also debunks the logic that Mercer loses the ability to regenerate without biomass altogether, as the Health Regeneration upgrade works by allowing the player to regenerate without needing to use Absorption or having biomass reserves. Mercer doesn't need biomass to regenerate, he only needs biomass to boost his regeneration, so he can still regenerate fine enough without biomass reserves.
Not only that, but Mercer has absorbed the biomass of at least a thousand humans inside his body (possibly a few more), so Corvo would need to get past all that reserves of biomass (which would not be easy as even a Crow's worth of biomass is enough for Mercer to reform rapidly quick) for Mercer's regeneration to even start to slow as literally the only time Mercer ever needed to boost his regeneration speed was when he gets heavily burnt by heat that exceeds his heat resistance (he is capable of withstanding heat from thermobaric explosions, which is a little over 1900 degrees Celsius) such as when he got scorched when near the blast of a nuclear explosion. Last I've checked, the only heat-based attack Corvo has is Incendiary bolts... Which all it does is light targets on fire, which Molotov cocktails (which is around 25 degrees Celsius based on the ignition of alcohol) and Incendiary ammunitions can already do in real life (and they don't reach anywhere near 2200 kelvins). Incendiary bolts does not really have the heat needed to do anything significant to Mercer from what I can see.
Even if we include the PIS scene from when Heller defeated Mercer in Prototype 2, it took Heller ripping Mercer's arms of a multitude of times before Mercer even had his regeneration begin to slow down, and even then Heller began to consume him 21 seconds later after Mercer's arms was ripped off near the final fight cutscene. Given the Supreme Hunter's regenerative feat without needing biomass, Mercer's own regenerative feats without needing biomass and the fact that SBA requires incapacitation to last over over a day (over 24 hours), Mercer has more than enough time to regenerate from all the potential damages done to him in this fight even if Corvo managed to deplete Mercer's thousands of reserves of biomass as 24 hours is obviously much more time than the 20-30 seconds that Mercer was estimated with his regeneration speed being slowed down by Prototype 2's PIS scene of Heller defeating Mercer.
Tranquilisers/Sleep darts should not be of any significant effect against Mercer. Alex Mercer can and has resisted biological attacks made against him before, such as when he gained the antibodies to resist the Parasite (Supreme Hunter in Parasite form) injected into his body, adapted to Bloodtox (a chemical that destroys infected tissue at the Cellular level by causing Necrosis within infected tissue), or when he infected the chemicals made specifically to cure him with his own blood. Given Mercer has dealt with things such as cellular-destroying chemicals and a cure made against Blacklight, all of which are chemicals made specifically to kill beings like Mercer (so if he can adapt against biologically attacks made specifically to affect beings like him with their complex physiologies, then it would likely be an easier time for Mercer to deal with chemicals that aren't specifically tailored towards such beings), so tranquilisers/sedatives should not be of much issue to Mercer. Even if we assume that they somehow get past all of Mercer's resistance to Biological Manipulation (which is doubtful, considering chemicals/drugs/toxins also falls under Biological Manipulation apparently, with Mercer's own resistance to Biological Manipulation also including chemicals), it wouldn't take him very long to start adapting to it considering Mercer's adaptive abilities is such that he started adapting to biological components (such as chemicals including Bloodtox) nearly straight after he got exposed it, so adapting to biological chemicals such as tranquilizers should not be much of an issue to him considering he already dealt with biological chemicals before... Which is all assuming that those chemicals don't immediately get infected by the Blacklight Virus upon entering Mercer's body, thus gaining control over all traces of the chemicals in him at the molecular level, or him simply absorb those chemicals. Sleep darts aren't effective against Mercer here.
Not sure if Corvo could possess beings outside of humans or animals, but even if we assume he could (which isn't an unlikely assumption), it would not help Corvo win here if he were to possess Mercer. Based on what I can recall, Possession has a limited duration based on its descriptions. From what I can recall, at best, Corvo has only around 3 minutes of duration with Possession based on the Inhabitant achievement, and even then it requires unique circumstances such as possessing a rat and staying in a tunnel or possessing a fish and staying in a pipe (which could likely be just gameplay mechanics). Given the win condition for incapacitation is over a day, Corvo wouldn't even reach anywhere near 24 hours until he runs out of duration for his Possession, and thus end up freeing Mercer each time.
Corvo's Bend Time is similar, with its duration not lasting much longer than several seconds. At best, it can only help Corvo buy time by delaying the inevitable. And considering its cost, it would cost Corvo around 60% of his stamina/mana to even use. As Corvo was shown to tire out after blinking several times in rapid successions (thus showing the limit of his stamina), Corvo evidently won't last against Mercer's Limitless stamina. Even with bone charms and the elixir from Corvo's optional equipment, they wouldn't help anymore than buying him more time and delay the inevitable.
Given that Mercer can absorb via touch in this key, and that Prototype series canonically has all any bites/scratches from the Infected end up with their targets becoming infected, Corvo would eventually run out of stamina/mana and end up with Mercer taking advantage of that opening to absorb him or scratch him with any of Mercer's physical attacks. And while Corvo does have ranged options, so does Mercer with his Whipfist and his Devastators (which was shown to be able to cover the entire city block he was in such as when it destroyed M1 Abram tanks and other vehicles in the cutscenes). If Corvo even manages to get touched by Mercer, he gets absorbed, and if he gets scratched... He would get infected by the Blacklight Virus, which would overpower any resistance to Disease Manipulation Corvo has ever shown with Blacklight's molecular level infection from what I can see. Though even if we assume Corvo manages to continuously dodge Mercer's attacks forever even during periods when he's tired from the usage of his abilities (which is unlikely considering Mercer is not an idiot, and would obviously take as much of an advantage as he can against an evidently annoying target that appears in several areas around him each time), Corvo is not immortal/ageless like Mercer is, so Corvo would eventually die from old age as well if there's nothing he can do against Mercer.
Thus, this fight either results in Mercer killing Corvo after a period of time when Corvo is exhausted from using his abilities, or Mercer outlives Corvo.
Also, as for that Shadow Kill ability, the description of the ability is as this for even its max upgrade "Turn all enemies to ash as they die."...
... One big factor to note about that ability, which is "as they die". Mercer's regenerative abilities prevents him from "dying" in the first place. Corvo would need to damage to the extent that it bypasses Low-High regeneration for him to even be able to kill characters of such regeneration to qualify those characters as "dead" in the first place, which is not going to happen with AP alone as Corvo's AP isn't 8-A or Tier 7 to even be assumed that he could do things such as Vapourise via higher AP advantage with both of them being 9-A in this match. As for Corvo's AP advantage, that is not going to matter in this fight considering 12x AP advantage makes no significant difference against Low-High regeneration as those values aren't even enough to assume Vapourisation via AP. Considering Mercer's Type 1, 2, 3 and 7 Immortality (along with canonical statements where Mercer doesn't fit the classifications of living or dead, along with his own statements of being being beyond Life and Death in Prototype 2), it's very arguable that Corvo could even put Mercer in a "dying" state to begin with. Shadow Kill is more of an ability that disposes bodies of killed targets rather than actually turn living targets to ash.
And that AP difference is going to be made less significant with Mercer's Musclemass ability, which doubles his strength in all areas, thus the 12x AP advantage would get reduced to 6x AP advantage once that happens. Also, Mercer's AP is probably higher than just destroying M1 Abrams tanks as Mercer was shown to withstand explosions such as that one explosion that levelled an entire room and blasted him out of the building (with the flames from the explosion covering a notable range around the building he was in) and also that one explosion that devastated the entire building in the Military base he was in - it's just that nobody has tried to calc those explosions for Mercer before, so they aren't used in Mercer's profile for his AP yet.
Also, many statements in this thread about Mercer requiring biomass to regenerate is not quite correct. Mercer can regenerate without biomass or absorbing biomass. Depleting his biomass reserves does make his regeneration speed slower, but it does not stop his regeneration altogether. Not only did Mercer regenerate a notably large hole in his head without absorbing anything when General Randall shot him in the head while he was in disguise, but the Supreme Hunter (a parasite/creature made from Alex Mercer's own DNA, and notably inherited similar abilities to Mercer such as shapeshifting and absorption) was capable of regenerating from a puddle as shown when it reformed a hand, a regeneration which Mercer should also scale to due to the Supreme Hunter's capabilities being deprived from Alex Mercer's own DNA as shown by Alex Mercer's profile stating that his healing capabilities being similar to the Supreme Hunter's. Not only that, but the existence of Health Regeneration upgrade (an upgrade which is present in the Prototype series) also debunks the logic that Mercer loses the ability to regenerate without biomass altogether, as the Health Regeneration upgrade works by allowing the player to regenerate without needing to use Absorption or having biomass reserves. Mercer doesn't need biomass to regenerate, he only needs biomass to boost his regeneration, so he can still regenerate fine enough without biomass reserves.
Not only that, but Mercer has absorbed the biomass of at least a thousand humans inside his body (possibly a few more), so Corvo would need to get past all that reserves of biomass (which would not be easy as even a Crow's worth of biomass is enough for Mercer to reform rapidly quick) for Mercer's regeneration to even start to slow as literally the only time Mercer ever needed to boost his regeneration speed was when he gets heavily burnt by heat that exceeds his heat resistance (he is capable of withstanding heat from thermobaric explosions, which is a little over 1900 degrees Celsius) such as when he got scorched when near the blast of a nuclear explosion. Last I've checked, the only heat-based attack Corvo has is Incendiary bolts... Which all it does is light targets on fire, which Molotov cocktails (which is around 25 degrees Celsius based on the ignition of alcohol) and Incendiary ammunitions can already do in real life (and they don't reach anywhere near 2200 kelvins). Incendiary bolts does not really have the heat needed to do anything significant to Mercer from what I can see.
Even if we include the PIS scene from when Heller defeated Mercer in Prototype 2, it took Heller ripping Mercer's arms of a multitude of times before Mercer even had his regeneration begin to slow down, and even then Heller began to consume him 21 seconds later after Mercer's arms was ripped off near the final fight cutscene. Given the Supreme Hunter's regenerative feat without needing biomass, Mercer's own regenerative feats without needing biomass and the fact that SBA requires incapacitation to last over over a day (over 24 hours), Mercer has more than enough time to regenerate from all the potential damages done to him in this fight even if Corvo managed to deplete Mercer's thousands of reserves of biomass as 24 hours is obviously much more time than the 20-30 seconds that Mercer was estimated with his regeneration speed being slowed down by Prototype 2's PIS scene of Heller defeating Mercer.
Tranquilisers/Sleep darts should not be of any significant effect against Mercer. Alex Mercer can and has resisted biological attacks made against him before, such as when he gained the antibodies to resist the Parasite (Supreme Hunter in Parasite form) injected into his body, adapted to Bloodtox (a chemical that destroys infected tissue at the Cellular level by causing Necrosis within infected tissue), or when he infected the chemicals made specifically to cure him with his own blood. Given Mercer has dealt with things such as cellular-destroying chemicals and a cure made against Blacklight, all of which are chemicals made specifically to kill beings like Mercer (so if he can adapt against biologically attacks made specifically to affect beings like him with their complex physiologies, then it would likely be an easier time for Mercer to deal with chemicals that aren't specifically tailored towards such beings), so tranquilisers/sedatives should not be of much issue to Mercer. Even if we assume that they somehow get past all of Mercer's resistance to Biological Manipulation (which is doubtful, considering chemicals/drugs/toxins also falls under Biological Manipulation apparently, with Mercer's own resistance to Biological Manipulation also including chemicals), it wouldn't take him very long to start adapting to it considering Mercer's adaptive abilities is such that he started adapting to biological components (such as chemicals including Bloodtox) nearly straight after he got exposed it, so adapting to biological chemicals such as tranquilizers should not be much of an issue to him considering he already dealt with biological chemicals before... Which is all assuming that those chemicals don't immediately get infected by the Blacklight Virus upon entering Mercer's body, thus gaining control over all traces of the chemicals in him at the molecular level, or him simply absorb those chemicals. Sleep darts aren't effective against Mercer here.
Not sure if Corvo could possess beings outside of humans or animals, but even if we assume he could (which isn't an unlikely assumption), it would not help Corvo win here if he were to possess Mercer. Based on what I can recall, Possession has a limited duration based on its descriptions. From what I can recall, at best, Corvo has only around 3 minutes of duration with Possession based on the Inhabitant achievement, and even then it requires unique circumstances such as possessing a rat and staying in a tunnel or possessing a fish and staying in a pipe (which could likely be just gameplay mechanics). Given the win condition for incapacitation is over a day, Corvo wouldn't even reach anywhere near 24 hours until he runs out of duration for his Possession, and thus end up freeing Mercer each time.
Corvo's Bend Time is similar, with its duration not lasting much longer than several seconds. At best, it can only help Corvo buy time by delaying the inevitable. And considering its cost, it would cost Corvo around 60% of his stamina/mana to even use. As Corvo was shown to tire out after blinking several times in rapid successions (thus showing the limit of his stamina), Corvo evidently won't last against Mercer's Limitless stamina. Even with bone charms and the elixir from Corvo's optional equipment, they wouldn't help anymore than buying him more time and delay the inevitable.
Given that Mercer can absorb via touch in this key, and that Prototype series canonically has all any bites/scratches from the Infected end up with their targets becoming infected, Corvo would eventually run out of stamina/mana and end up with Mercer taking advantage of that opening to absorb him or scratch him with any of Mercer's physical attacks. And while Corvo does have ranged options, so does Mercer with his Whipfist and his Devastators (which was shown to be able to cover the entire city block he was in such as when it destroyed M1 Abram tanks and other vehicles in the cutscenes). If Corvo even manages to get touched by Mercer, he gets absorbed, and if he gets scratched... He would get infected by the Blacklight Virus, which would overpower any resistance to Disease Manipulation Corvo has ever shown with Blacklight's molecular level infection from what I can see. Though even if we assume Corvo manages to continuously dodge Mercer's attacks forever even during periods when he's tired from the usage of his abilities (which is unlikely considering Mercer is not an idiot, and would obviously take as much of an advantage as he can against an evidently annoying target that appears in several areas around him each time), Corvo is not immortal/ageless like Mercer is, so Corvo would eventually die from old age as well if there's nothing he can do against Mercer.
Thus, this fight either results in Mercer killing Corvo after a period of time when Corvo is exhausted from using his abilities, or Mercer outlives Corvo.
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Arcker123
He/Him- 8,078
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- #73
A 6x gap is still a massive disadvantage mercer is at, Corvo defeated the .069 guy as well. most of these are unsuable as they have not been calced
Corvo can possess corpses and zombies actually, and again possession was argued for allowing an incap
Why does that bypass resistance again, is that how its potency is judged, either way corvo can easily teleport away to stealth or heavily injure him and push him back with wind blast
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That disadvantage does not mean anything when it comes to characters with higher-tiered regeneration with hax abilities that can bypass conventional durability in several ways, such as Absorption. A 6x AP gap isn't enough to prevent a scratch either and then getting infected either.
Incapacitation only matters if it can be kept up for over a day. Unless Corvo has explicit showings, descriptions or quotes of doing that, he isn't going to have a possession duration greater than 3 minutes based on that Achievement (which can argued to be gameplay mechanics), so he would need explicit showings to even prove he can reach over 24 hours, which I haven't found any.
Teleporting away also has a distance limit for Corvo, based on the showings he has, and he isn't able to teleport through physical obstacles either, so his escape options aren't that many. Even if Corvo spams the blinking, Mercer would still continuously try to get close until Corvo eventually dies from even the slightest mistake that Mercer can take advantage of from a single touch with Absorption. Mercer has not only shown to absorb by touching with his hand either, he was shown to absorb even other targets from the touch of his tendrils, such as in Prototype 2 when he absorbed the Evolved (which should scale to this key of Mercer as it was not explicitly shown or suggested that such abilities are greater in Prototype 2), so he isn't exactly limited to just arms length as he can extend his reach through his tendrils. Corvo's stamina isn't infinite here, and there's also the fact that Mercer has some ranged options as well (and also one of his attacks being a Homing Attack). Corvo can keep trying to gain distance, but it only delays the inevitable. Either he dies from making a mistake from his exhaustion, or he dies of old age.
This match could qualify as a stomp now that I think about it, based on that.
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How long does it take to keep that target unconscious for Dishonoured?
Because it generally doesn't take anymore than than several minutes for people in real life to wake up (though sometimes they could wake up after several seconds) from getting knocked out into unconsciousness, unless it involves brain damage (which could take hours, days, weeks or even months depending on the severity of the brain damage. Obviously, brain damage would not apply to Mercer due to his capabilities, so durations involving brain damage for unconsciousness doesn't apply to him). When I tried to search for the duration of the unconsciousness, all I can find is guards waking each other up, or the bodies of unconscious targets disappearing for the Dishonoured series (which I'm pretty sure that's just game mechanics). If there is no explicit evidence such as descriptions/quotes or showings outside of Game Mechanics, then it's difficult to even estimate the duration of the unconsciousness without going under the assumption of real life logic.
Because it generally doesn't take anymore than than several minutes for people in real life to wake up (though sometimes they could wake up after several seconds) from getting knocked out into unconsciousness, unless it involves brain damage (which could take hours, days, weeks or even months depending on the severity of the brain damage. Obviously, brain damage would not apply to Mercer due to his capabilities, so durations involving brain damage for unconsciousness doesn't apply to him). When I tried to search for the duration of the unconsciousness, all I can find is guards waking each other up, or the bodies of unconscious targets disappearing for the Dishonoured series (which I'm pretty sure that's just game mechanics). If there is no explicit evidence such as descriptions/quotes or showings outside of Game Mechanics, then it's difficult to even estimate the duration of the unconsciousness without going under the assumption of real life logic.
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