Composite main JoJo villain vs Misogi

[Chariot190]

>Kumagawa does ANYTHING. He hard negs King Crimson. There is no action to erase. Something has never been there. If kuma does anything, it has never been there, be it time, people, hax etc.

Except the fact that, ya know, the act of him attempting to do that never happened, if King Crimson deletes the time in which he decided to use all fiction then he himself, had never used all fiction, given the act of him doing so is gone as well. King Crimson effects causuality as well mate (that's actually on his profile), don't forget. He's not deleting it as Kuma does it, he's deleting it before it happens and it gets caught within the ten second time frame of all actions never occuring, and he has no feats of his ability working in such a situation.

Also given he doesnt have prior knowledge given that's against the rules (given it should be anyway, lots of jojo characters know of other things as well, good example is FOTNS and Kenshiro, but in a match that knowledge would be moot) and the character in question aint even anything he would realize he knows, kinda a moot point.

>love train redirecting a time paradox

tbf I think that's just something jojo characters in general dont gotta deal with it, at the very least Funny is one such character.

Also Epitapth can be utilized inside a time skip, so he knows when and what to do after the fact.

 

[Chariot190]

Also there's always the 50/50 love train insta destruction and BFR from the world the moment it begins.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If both abilities activate at the same time. Kumagawa's All Fiction wins by virtue of being retroactive. Example if Kumagawa erases KC's ability and at the same time KC erases time. KC's ability is gone, because "it has never been there".

That's actually true. In a thread a while ago it was agreed that if a verse specifically has stated to have certain verses as fiction inside them it's ok to say they have knowledge of such a verse. Medaka has that with a bunch of verses.

Why doesn't funny gotta deal with time paradox?

 

[Chariot190]

>If both abilities activate at the same time. Kumagawa's All Fiction wins by virtue of being retroactive. Example if Kumagawa erases KC's ability and at the same time KC erases time. KC's ability is gone, because "it has never been there".

Except, and here's the key part, All Fiction wont be active, because the act of him using it didnt happen, even if it's retroactive it still has to be used to retroactively take effect and if it that activation happens within a time skip, then it didnt happen. And he doesnt have the feats to suggest that it would superceede it. You're basically saying All Fiction will work even if it never was used, which going by the profile, isnt the case in spite of it being able to effect the past. And that's where Epitaph comes in, Comp will be faster on the draw in these situations.

>That's actually true. In a thread a while ago it was agreed that if a verse specifically has stated to have certain verses as fiction inside them it's ok to say they have knowledge of such a verse. Medaka has that with a bunch of verses.

Link to the thread? Because it says kinda plain as day on the SBA page that isnt the case unless otherwise noted. But as I already said, even if he did have prior knowledge, that aint gonna exactly help given the character in question isnt literaly said jojo characters, it's a composite, it's only helpful if he knows that he's fighting a composite jojo villain.

>Why doesn't funny gotta deal with time paradox?

Because apparently interacting with your past self and shit in JoJo aint gonna effect the future you and you're fine if you do so, and no timeline splitting involved. This at least applies to a handful of characters, one of which is Funny.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah, what Chariot says, otherwise Composite Human would have had prior knowledge on all verses it fought against. (Y'know, back when Composite Human still existed.)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Actually, Kumagawa's all fiction was unable to erase his actions into "not having wished for it". Because once it's gone, it's gone, until he gains Non Fiction that is. And again, KC won't be able to erase his action if it never existed in the first place. Your argument can only exist if KC activates first, not All Fiction. And yes All Fiction superceedes KC because it's retroactive and therefore "faster".

Meeting your past self doesn't give time paradox immunity.

 

[Chariot190]

>Actually, Kumagawa's all fiction was unable to erase his actions into "not having wished for it". Because once it's gone, it's gone, until he gains Non Fiction that is. And again, KC won't be able to erase his action if it never existed in the first place. Your argument can only exist if KC activates first, not All Fiction. And yes All Fiction superceedes KC because it's retroactive and therefore "faster".

You don't get it do you? It wont be retroactive because All Fiction will never actually be used, he'll try yeah, but it'd ge used in a time skip, meaning it was never actually used. Yeah in theory what you're saying is indeed right, but it wont superceede anything because it has to actually be used in the first place in order to erase anything, even in the past but if he quite literally, never uses it then he's obviously not gonna effect King Crimson, and given Comp has precog, he's gonna be quicker on the draw in using his c&e manip in every situation. It's not faster, it just has an ability that can effect the past, but said ability must be used first first to do so. Plus being able to precog within the time skip is just gonna snowball into always knowing when to use time skip to avoid all fiction being used.

>1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes, but remain just as vulnerable in the present and can be affected by normal Causality Manipulation and similar abilities.

No, from what I can tell, meeting your past self, having your past self and his experiences and story be widly changed to the point it's barely the same, and you yourself are 100% fine and completely the same and uneffected seems like it to me.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Why are you assuming KC will activate faster? Also seeing the future and thinking of a counter would be slower

May need scan on that.

 

[Chariot190]

It isnt about activating faster, it's about doing it first. Precog helps with that, if his 400IQ and weird personality mishmash of Kira and Diavolo doesnt assure it to begin with. Because, once again, Kuma doesnt have prior knowledge, his first move could be multiple things, especially if he doesnt know what his opponents skillset is and especially in character, Comp doesnt have to deal with that because precog helps show what will and will not work and what Kuma will do before he does it, so he always knows when to delete pre-emptively.

Think of a counter? He has around ten seconds to think of a counter, he can use Epitaph within timeskip, which is kinda broke ass but him thinking of a counter wouldnt be slower, he has a free ten seconds each skip to think of one, and due to precog he can tell what may or may not work so the choices get singled out quite fast.

>May need scan on that.

Don't worry, I was actually gonna make a CRT on that on my off day, so by the end of the week I'll have the thread made.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You missed the point. No matter what kumagawa uses, it's over. Whether he erases the comp jojo, the power, time, insta seals the stands etc. It's all the same. You can't really argue not in character if anything he does gets rid of KC

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

He's still effecting nothing since, well, Love Train, so I doubt activating first matters anything.

 

[Chariot190]

>You missed the point. No matter what kumagawa uses, it's over. Whether he erases the comp jojo, the power, time, insta seals the stands etc. It's all the same. You can't really argue not in character if anything he does gets rid of KC

No I fully get what you're saying, yeah, if Kuma uses something that's likely it in regards to King Crimson, well, maybe, given I know for a fact he doesnt always lead with things like that in character.

The thing you don't seem to get is he has to use his power, and that's the thing, he won't be able to, whenever he tries to do it, the time in which he tries to do doesnt exist, ergo he never actually used his ability. If he gets his ability off, then yeah, he's probably good to go, issue is he wont.

I'd also like to point out >insta seals the stands

That's implying he even realizes what he's fighting, he can't see Stands. All he'd see he is probably a somewhat buff dude. And he probably won't get that off, given the act of him sealing will probably be skipped over. Actually, I doubt he'd be able to seal anything due to Love Train given the screw has to touch the target.

Also you keep you bringing up a multitude of thing's he'd do, that's counterintuitive, if he doesnt instantly do something that'd net him the win the literal second the match starts, in character mind you, then he screws himself because by then comp will have likely already deleted or stopped time, be looking at epitaph, see everything Kuma will do and what powers of his will or will not work, then go from there, at that point Kuma will get nothing of as Comp will know ahead of time what Kuma will atempt to do and Kuma is unwillingly bound to fate, of which he has no resistance towards being bound to, as such Comp is guranteed to know exactly when and what Kuma will do and can pre-emptively delete Kuma trying to perform the action ahead of time, from there it's just a matter of BFR'ing or paradoxing, maybe even mindhaxing given looking at his profile he has no resistance to mindhax and he seems to have to actively want to use it to activate it. On another note, looking at his profile, it says he uses his hands in character even though he doesnt need to, kinda automatically making him slower on the draw in this match.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Erasing time is very in character.

And bookmaker can be spawned inside ppl. So love train gets bypassed.

 

[Bedroombedrock]

I think you're wanking epitaph a bit, it doesn't show abilities and how they work nor does it show everything that will happen, from what I remember it just shows 10 seconds into the future but mostly only the end results, ie, Doppio see's a scissor burst out of his throat in the future but doesn't immediately figure out Metallica's ability. Idk what Kuma's ic starting move is or what it even looks like but there's a good chance looking at epitaph won't immediately tell comp all he needs to know and from their perspective Kuma does just look like a normal person, also idk who's personality would stay dominant in a comp version, if it's DIO or Kars they most likely open with Time Erasure or something else for the kill but Pucci or Kira and I doubt it Diavolo and FV idk either

 

[TriforcePower1]

Erasing time is very in character.

And bookmaker can be spawned inside ppl. So love train gets bypassed.

Even if something gets past love train, it still gets redirected regardless. Happened with Act 2's bullets two or three times. They hit Funny despite Love Train, but then they get redirected somewhere else. Also, that's assuming it would form inside Love Train.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Redirecting sealing that would seal Love Train? Redirecting bullets is one thing, need some sort of proof he'll redirect power null the same way.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Love Train is powered up by the Holy Corpse. Hitting Funny's not going to do anything.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's going to seal it.

 

[Bedroombedrock]

"No" "yes" "no" "yes"

 

[Chariot190]

>bedroombedrock

You said it yourself, Epitaph will show exactly what will happen. It wont tell him what to use, but it will show him if he uses something and it fails, then he knows not to use that, then after a few quick checks the things that will work get singled out, or, if he decided to use something that will work it'd show it working. And as for showing what Kuma will do, well that's a guranteed thing.

Difference with Doppio is that he didnt have any other abilities, Epitaph aint that good on it's own but is broken with Time ERase as it allows Diavolo to be exempt by fate and causuality on what and will not happen, plus the fact that I'm like 90% certain Epitaph gets updated upon time skip, which is half the reason why it's deadly in Diavolo's hands.

>Redirecting sealing that would seal Love Train? Redirecting bullets is one thing, need some sort of proof he'll redirect power null the same way.

Actually wouldnt you need proof that they can even be spawned inside love train? Given the difference is technically what amounts to a dimensional wall that is infinitely big on the inside despite being paper thin on the outside? And love train isnt even from the user, hitting the user would have love train fire away the screws elsewhere and sealing love train would have to have Kuma even knows the source of it. And even then, Comp sees him do that in Epitaph, then it gets skipped over.

 

[Tincan123]

Kars: is useless here

Dio: as well pff Za Warudo means nothing to All fiction so bye.

Kira: It's funny how nobody has mentioned this: Third Bomb - Killer Queen Bites the Dust: Killer Queen's final and most powerful bomb, which it gained after Kira was stabbed by the Stand Arrow a second time. Born from his desire to live a peaceful life, without anyone discovering his true identity, Bites the Dust appears as a miniaturized Killer Queen that Kira can implant within a non-Stand user who knows of his identity. This is Killer Queen, and using Bites the Dust thus leaves Kira defenseless, operating its own. It triggers automatically when its host reveals its identity, whether audibly or through writing, when someone asks them about Kira, or when another Stand user sees it, quickly entering their eye. From there, Bites the Dust kills them with an explosion, and it can simultaneously kill multiple at once in this way. After triggering, Bites the Dust reverses time by around an hour, with the only person who retains the memory of previous loops being its host. Not even Kira knows what it has done. In the next loop, everything that happened in previous loops is destined to happen again, regardless of any actions the host takes to prevent them, killing all its victims once more at the same time, even if Bites the Dust was not triggered this time around. Bites the Dust will also prevent any harm from being done to its host, even from Kira himself. Alternatively, when first implanted into a target, Bites the Dust can be triggered manually to reverse time, allowing Kira to escape a difficult situation, which he used to undo his impulsive murder of Hayato. To me this is a win if Kira puls it of which is very likey.

Diavolo: King Crimson is a hard counter to All Fiction because it goes round and round they Diavolo can keep Misogi busy Kumagawa Kira or Valatine kills him.

Pucci: not very usefull cant see how he will be able to deal with All Fiction

Murica: is save from All Fiction because of Love train. Now can he kill Kumagawa probably might not be easy but it can happen.

this thread 10/10 love it here a shrek meme https://youtu.be/Uo2SNtFofWI?t=4