Choujin Sensen stuff

[DontTalk]

Carbonoid physiology

The profiles mention their carbon based physiology, but don't explain what that means for them.

As explained here they don't have a heart and can easily stop bleeding, even from wounds like beings shot to where the heart would be, due to their self propelling bloodstream.

That much I would add to their pages.

I think there might also have been some statement about one having to do something on the level of cutting their head off to kill them, but I am not sure and can't find it, so... ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

Isaac Newto
Regarding this attack here.

It was stated to be like a magnitude 7 earthquake.

A magnitude 7 earthqake radiates a seismic energy of 1.995262e+15J

That would fit the fact that a crater with a diameter of 200 and depth of 100 (so basically half a sphere with radius 100m), would have a volume of (4/3*pi*100^3)/2=2094395.1023931954923084 m^3 = 2.094395e+12 cm^3 and if pulverized (given that the content of the hole seemingly completly disappeared) would hence have taken 2.094395e+12*214.35 = 4.4893356825e14J to create.

Both would be Large Town level.


A second thing is that here they appeared from a portal.

Given that Saiko's ability is mind control and Leo's ability is energy manipulation, I would say that Isaac, who has demonstrated manipulating spacetime through his graity manipulation, is the one with the ability to create portals here.

Evariste's speed and those scaled from that
That feat that is described there is no speed feat.

A human quite naturally sees light, the fact that the doctor dude sees the light emitted from electrons is a matter of precision of sight. In his case his sight is so precise that he can even see the each individual electron and the light it emits.

And even if he could percieve the actual light moving, there is a huge step between being able to percieve something and actually being able to react to it.

And why the FTL+ in the first place? I mean that would be 10 times faster than light, given for the statement that he can see light?


All in all I don't think that ranking the characters as "possibly FTL+" is justified in this case.

Regenerationn girls rege
So I just want to establish what level of regen Hiiragi Koharu has.

Reading from here onwards she could regenerate of having her body spread through 4-D space.

I think that would qualify for low godly regen (mostly because "regenerate from other realms").

If so on Evariste's profile it should be specified that he can negate regen up to and including that level with his abilities.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems reasonable.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

http://********.me/manga/choujin_sensen/v07/c026/15.html

What do you make of this, DontTalk?

There's a lot of talk of Higher-Dimensional powers and Regenerationn throughout the end of the series.

 

[DontTalk]

@Matthew: He has the ability to move/spread stuff throughout up to infinite dimensional space using his leeches. In the particular instance he spreads Hiiragi through infinite dimensional space. I assuem the reason that this negates her Regenerationn different than 4-D stuff is that it spreads her over so complex space that her Regenerationn power can not find the coordinates in which to put her back together anymore.

In regards to her regen, as said above, I think I would be low godly.


In any case it is nice hax. One of the few higher dimensional hax (except those that are tier 1 or 2 of course). Hence he should be able to take down a lot of things using that.


The question whether we should give MATE a High 2-A ranking for its true form, which never directly appeared in the story, is maybe also an interesting one.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Didn't the naked fairy girl (Forgot her name) grant every single character their powers, and is superior to all of them?

I would assume that would make her High 1-B, since that guy can influence Infinite-Dimensional Space.

 

[DontTalk]

power granting Ôëá having that ability

Just because you can grant an ability that has a certain amount of influence on higher dimensions it wouldn't mean you actually have a meaningful control over such space.


And being superior to a character with hax Ôëá being superior to everything he can influence with the hax.


For example, without the [Gate] FEE and MATE are unable to to enter 3-D space. Actually ones it collapses they will be forcefully expelled from it.


To use a To aru comparison:

This is essentially like saying that researchers in Academy City are tier 1, since they have given teleporters that ability to move stuff through 11-D space.

Or that the makers of the Curtana are Tier 1.


Furthermore in case of the "four dimensional leeches" for example he made 3-D leeches move through 4-D space, not created 4-D leeches.

In other words he can move and spread 3-D stuff over higher dimensional space. That he can actually destroy higher dimensional objects isn't given through that.

All in all a nice hax, but that isn't tier 1 worthy.


Btw. Evariste would actually have been granted the ability by MATE and not FEE, I think (though the ability actually depends on the genes of the person the ability is granted to IIRC)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This seems reasonable

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There's a character who's Low 2-C, though, right? I saw some scans about Quantum powers and Big Bang abilities.

 

[LazyHunter]

I agree with the revisions.

 

[DontTalk]

@Matthew:

Hmmm...?

For quantum powers there was the quantum pulse thing, which is average hax I would think.


I don't remember anything that would suggest anything even close to 2-C though (except the MATEs true form being 5-D statement, as mentioned)

I mean we have Leo rambling about his ability a bit here, but this isn't meant to mean universal or something.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That Leo scan was the one I meant.

It really does seem Universal.

 

[DontTalk]

That it's a "universal power" means universal as in "Newton's law of universal gravitation" here.

He explains that the ability to manipulate energy is essentially the ability to manipulate everything in the universe, as the universe is dominated by energy, but he doesn't really say that he can manipulate this large amounts of energy at once or energy in this large an area.

It is in any case absolutely not supported by his showings in the battle.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that DontTalk seems to make sense.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Holy shit didn't even know this existed, and perfectly fine with the changes. Although in that case the reactions for them would be whittled down to MHS then since the electron speed would still make sense regarding the feat on seeing electrons move/shake.

And thanks Donttalk!

 

[Antvasima]

Were the suggested changes ever applied?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I'll handle the changes no worries.

There is one thing I wanna argue on how one of the martial artist's final attack was compared to a quantum pulse.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

And DT, what do you suppose we could put MATE as a tier right now if there is a profile for him?

And I must've mistyped when I placed FTL+ instead of FTL for the other characters. Then again we do have a person reacting to someone who can make space infinite and slow down time and accelerate it. And the doctor himself seems to see the flow of time itself although I don't know exactly how to quantify that but when he's already MHS+ and if he could see the future or at least how it flows... not a good time for me to reread. I'm gonna sleep first and then re-analyze it.

Gotta make that Koharu profile too.

 

[Antvasima]

It might be best if DontTalk handles the changes.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Ah. Sorry just did all of them, I can undo them if needed. But I actually want to defend the FTL issue since even if the Doctor couldn't perceive it-

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-687hKMc9HyA/Vi7YwugFMmI/AAAAAAABWuY/hFTuCOFgFdc/s0-Ic42/040.jpg

It was still defined as a qunatum based particle wave attack and that is something Evariste was still able to defend against that at the last moment.

Edit - Also found the "they can only die by getting their heads shot off" part

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe DontTalk can make adjustments later.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I don't mind. I do have another feat to discuss with him. Anyway taking a night off now. Wishing you a good night.

 

[Antvasima]

Good night.

 

[DontTalk]

But I actually want to defend the FTL issue since even if the Doctor couldn't perceive it-
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-687hKMc9HyA/Vi7YwugFMmI/AAAAAAABWuY/hFTuCOFgFdc/s0-Ic42/040.jpg

It was still defined as a qunatum based particle wave attack and that is something Evariste was still able to defend against that at the last moment.

The doctor could perceive it (he said there was a white flash of light) he just couldn't react to it and neither comprehend it.

So here the difference between perception and reaction showed quite nicely actually. He saw the attack, but couldn't possibly react to it.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalk Can you check if the edits are okay?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

That's true now that I think about it. Then yeah he definitely does not have any speed feats. However Evarist was still able to react to it in quite a speedy manner (talking in the middle of attacks otherwise) and it was defined as quantum waves no?

 

[DontTalk]

He was able to react to it easily, but we don't know how fast it is.

It was defined as quantum particle wave, but that doesn't relate to its speed. Quantum particles don't necessarily move with the speed of light or anything, take electrons for example.

 

[DontTalk]

@Antvasima: Aside from the speed, which still has to be done, everything is good.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

That makes sense. Alright one last argument before I rest my case. The description on the Mad Doctor's perception of light was indeed just seeing light. Although at the same time well there's still the shaking of the atoms and how he could sense light with them spiralling towards him.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FG-IMwnYwIE/Vi7YnnLbItI/AAAAAAABWuY/yCzsX97tCNA/s0-Ic42/018.jpg

And for him to sense the flow of time itself, err, that's a but unquantifiable but then again he was able to perceive everything in the world. Anyway my core argument is that he sems to be at least able to react to it in either way. And with how he sees through any sort of attack itself minus that one, that's what I choose to validate the 'possibly' FTL ranking.


Also on MATE's regards, there were come confusion on whether his form should be 2-A or not but what if we separate it to two versions of him being in the 3-D realm, and him in his own realm? And the reason why I compared FEE to MATE is because of them regarding each other as equal. I'll probably have to refine their abilities soon to match anyway.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalk Okay. Thanks. Do you wish to fix the speeds?

 

[DontTalk]

For MATE we should definitely seperate the 3-D from the 5-D form.

His 5-D form is in theory High 2-A (though also technically never really appearing in the story).

I wouldn't scale FEE to that however. Under normal circumstances FEE's 2-D world and MATE's 5-D world aren't really connected, to my understanding. In other words as gods of their respective worlds they are similar and in the 3-D world probably equal powerwise, but I wouldn't assume that FEE can manifest herself in the 5-D world by default. (Or that MATE can influence FEE'S 2-D world)


Regarding speed: I don't think he reacts to the movement of the light, but he sees the light of the electrons (when the photons are spiralling into his brain) and by that can concludes what the nervous cells do before they really begin doing it.

Much like his prior technique of reading the nervous system, just that instead of seeing the nerve signals and beginning to react before they actually cause movement, now he sees the electrons in the nerves and begins to react before even those nerve signals are fired.

That means he can begin reacting the moment the opponent decides on making a move and through that in total gains a huge advantage in reaction time. That is more extending the time he has to react than reacting faster actually.

In either case I don't see him suggesting to be able to take an action in the timeframe light needs to move between the two.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Actually I think there might be since they seemed to display some closeness and well further interactions than what's normal. I'll reread once I get the time. I'll get started on the profiles for both and refine them.


That makes total sense. Was originally hyped for those mini feats but those make sense. Alright, I concede and will edit the speed for Evariste as soon as I get home. I would argue that Leonardo managed to block in time against Rinji's final attack.