Chainsaw Man discussion thread

[Zabazab]

Frieren get Low 7-C

Carried by the tornado being made of fire, most of the energy was temp change.

 

[OhMrKnight]

You cannot use these moments to scale these characters to the same speed as a group. Not only does this cause a lot of inconsistencies, but it's also just basic physics at play here. In chapter 87 (the first hybrid union fight you mention) they all transform at the same time and make an airborne jump toward Pochita. Once characters are airborne, their trajectories are no longer determined by running speed, only by the initial push and gravity and a panel showing characters moving toward something at the same time does not always mean their velocities were equal. Panels visually compress time and distance for readability. This is where feats come into play so we can have a narrative understanding of where characters scale within the story. You are arguing that "All hybrids = same speed". This brings issues:

1. Base Quanxi decapitating Katana Man during his sword draw dash while fighting Nail and War simultaneously. This cannot be possible if Katana Man is just as fast as transformed Quanxi, who is faster than her base counterpart.
2. Quanxi speed blitzing Miri Sugo who is unable to even detect her because of her sheer speed. Same reasoning as with Katana Man. This should not be possible.
3. Barem being surprised by Quanxi's speed. Again, not possible if he can do the same thing once he transforms.

Even going to the second round against Pochita, Miri and Katana Man being side by side in travel and maybe combat speed because they jumped at the same velocity might be a reach, but I'll at least give them the benefit of the doubt. Katana Man is not even using his sword draw dash there, so you can't make a definite comparison between the two when his base combat speed is much slower than his full speed capabilities. The best you can get out of this is Bomb and Whip going bar for bar in travel speed when approaching Pochita. That's about as close as the similarities get, because again, there should be a distinction where Barem gets blitzed by Chainsaw Man while Quanxi can react and defend against him to some extent. From all the showings in the manga, hybrids vary completely in speed. A speed char would look like:

• Quanxi (Transformed) > Quanxi > Barem (Transformed) > Chainsaw Man > Katana Man (Sword Draw Dash) > Whip Woman ~ Bomb girl (Explosions) > Bomb girl > Sword Man ~ Katana Man > Spear

In short, they are shown to not be equal, and they clearly are not equal in power, speed, skill or anything else.

Here's a draft of what future CSM scaling will look like. It's outdated, but when movie calcs start coming in I'll start updating it.

There’s something that catches my attention, why is Barem superior to Denji?

 

[GunshyFever]

There’s something that catches my attention, why is Barem superior to Denji?

Reacting to and dodging Weakened Pochita's chains

 

[OhMrKnight]

Seeing that this calculation wasn’t approved, how would we define the speed of the bottom tiers? https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Giannysmag/Power_blitzes_Katana_Man

 

[GunshyFever]

I will replace those soon. Low tiers will be comfortable at Subsonic+ - Supersonic.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

Neither. She Upscales most of the verse physically but she only gets >20%, possibly >100% gun devil power based on her not only getting the 20% gun devil's power but also damaging Part 1 Pochita

Power based she's above 20% GD and possibly even 100% GD?
@GunshyFever @Zabazab Didn't you tell me that Pochita isn't more feared than the GD at 100% or even 20%?

 

[GunshyFever]

Power based she's above 20% GD and possibly even 100% GD?

With her abilities, yes.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

With her abilities, yes.

How?

 

[GunshyFever]

How?

She already no diffed the 20% Gun. 100% is up for debate, would make a good versus thread for anyone who want's to steal the idea.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

She already no diffed the 20% Gun. 100% is up for debate, would make a good versus thread for anyone who want's to steal the idea.

How do you argue she's above 100%?
Also didn't you or somebody else say that she only did that through a whole combination of devils which could have one shotted Pochita as well

 

[GunshyFever]

Also didn't you or somebody else say that she only did that through a whole combination of devils which could have one shotted Pochita as well

Arguably but it would've never hit

How do you argue she's above 100%?

You don't need me to think for you all the time now

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

How do you argue she's above 100%?

the only reason we do is because Part 1 Pochita is a Super mega statement merchant and makima believes winning against him is unwinnable despite negging 20% Gun devil and even then with those combination of powers 20% gun devil wasn't completely destroyed as it became aki-47

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

@GunshyFever @Zabazab Didn't you tell me that Pochita isn't more feared than the GD at 100% or even 20%?

Dawg, we already give Part 1 CSM scaling above 20%, possibly above 100%'s physicals.
What they argue that he's not immensely superior to the gun devil in fear like the primals are in Part 1, therefore he doesn't scale to the city feat that Gun devil can preform. besides, that level of energy kills the gun devil anyway so, if they matchup up and the Gun Devil rams into Pochita, it'd be an incon for both

 

[Hypercyber37]

Isn't the bomb devil more scarier than the katana devil? If Reze is still alive, wouldn't She be stronger than katana man?

 

[GunshyFever]

Isn't the bomb devil more scarier than the katana devil? If Reze is still alive, wouldn't She be stronger than katana man?

Thing is, nuclear weapons "were" erased from exsistance. So Reze "was" nerfered.

 

[Hypercyber37]

Thing is, nuclear weapons "were" erased from exsistance. So Reze "was" nerfered.

But isn't Bomb Devil still alive and more terrifying than Katana? Also, shouldn't Reze be stronger than the current Katana-Man before the Nuclear Weapons were erased?

 

[GunshyFever]

But isn't Bomb Devil still alive and more terrifying than Katana? Also, shouldn't Reze be stronger than the current Katana-Man before the Nuclear Weapons were erased?

For sure.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

What they argue that he's not immensely superior to the gun devil in fear like the primals are in Part 1, therefore he doesn't scale to the city feat that Gun devil can preform. besides, that level of energy kills the gun devil anyway so, if they matchup up and the Gun Devil rams into Pochita, it'd be an incon for both

But didn't you tell me if you're more feared than 100% GD you're 7-B? Also why is him defeating the 4 horsemen likened to him being possibly above 100% GD

 

[OhMrKnight]

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Hell yeah

 

[Zabazab]

96 hours.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

But didn't you tell me if you're more feared than 100% GD you're 7-B? Also why is him defeating the 4 horsemen likened to him being possibly above 100% GD

Yes I did but Pochita, at the time, had no statement that reasonably proved that he's more feared than the gun devil in the same immense way primal devils are, especially when he only got primal level scaling in part 2, basically saying he wasn't that level beforehand.
Primals are stated to be "transcendent" to devils far more feared aka way stronger than the gun devil, Part 1 Pochita, despite his statements, has no such transcendence.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Eren vs Denji

Wanted to celebrate finally finishing an almost 4 month CRT and I realized this matchup is possible This battle has been done before but the stats are different now Eren is his Post-Time Skip (Season 4) key but starts in his Human Form, Denji is his Post-Broadcast key Speed Equalized, SBA...

vsbattles.com

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

Yes I did but Pochita, at the time, had no statement that reasonably proved that he's more feared than the gun devil in the same immense way primal devils are, especially when he only got primal level scaling in part 2, basically saying he wasn't that level beforehand.

So just being more feared than the 100% GD doesn't mean anything and it has to be a really big difference in how much more feared they are?
Also what is used for Pochita being ~ to 100% GD

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

So just being more feared than the 100% GD doesn't mean anything and it has to be a really big difference in how much more feared they are?
Also what is used for Pochita being ~ to 100% GD

Correct
Alongside his vast array of statements, he defeated nukes in his prime

 

[Sammy818]

Yes I did but Pochita, at the time, had no statement that reasonably proved that he's more feared than the gun devil in the same immense way primal devils are, especially when he only got primal level scaling in part 2, basically saying he wasn't that level beforehand.
Primals are stated to be "transcendent" to devils far more feared aka way stronger than the gun devil, Part 1 Pochita, despite his statements, has no such transcendence.

I still kinda hate how we taking Barems statement at face value

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I still kinda hate how we taking Barems statement at face value

if it was just the statement, I wouldn't like it either.
But, my brother in scaling, we have a multitude of instances of Pochita harming and withstanding attacks from the Aging Devil with them outright using dura neg multiple times to try getting him out of the fight

 

[Mommyleona]

if it was just the statement, I wouldn't like it either.
But, my brother in scaling, we have a multitude of instances of Pochita harming and withstanding attacks from the Aging Devil with them outright using dura neg multiple times to try getting him out of the fight

primals are buns

 

[ElJoaki5]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ElJoaki5/Chainsaw_Man:_Michigan_&_Oregon_Sword_Full_Calc

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

if it was just the statement, I wouldn't like it either.
But, my brother in scaling, we have a multitude of instances of Pochita harming and withstanding attacks from the Aging Devil with them outright using dura neg multiple times to try getting him out of the fight

Tbh harming Primals means nothing. Makima did it, Denji did it, Yoru did it. Primals aren’t difficult to injure unless they block.

I’ve been meaning to say but like the idea that Primals physically scale over Gun Devil is really weird since they aren’t ever portrayed in such a manner. Darkness is transcendent but Makima can beat it in a quick draw then gets blitzed by Pochita so is part 1 Pochita transcendent?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Makima did it

though literal duraneg

Denji did it

Weakened Falling, who's not so transcendent

Yoru did it

Again, weakened falling controlled by death

I’ve been meaning to say but like the idea that Primals physically scale over Gun Devil is really weird since they aren’t ever portrayed in such a manner. Darkness is transcendent but Makima can beat it in a quick draw then gets blitzed by Pochita so is part 1 Pochita transcendent?

The Makima thing is an outlier imo and for the plot (like, the cast had to get out of there somehow but they were against) and the primals screw around

 

[Mommyleona]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ElJoaki5/Chainsaw_Man:_Michigan_&_Oregon_Sword_Full_Calc

multi continental

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

though literal duraneg

Weakened Falling, who's not so transcendent

Again, weakened falling controlled by death

The Makima thing is an outlier imo and for the plot (like, the cast had to get out of there somehow but they were against) and the primals screw around

Is there a statement it is dura neg?

Is Falling actually weakened? The source of that statement is Death who was lying about her abilities in the scene she said it.

So do we have any other instances of Primals doing anything physically comparable to Gun Devil? Do we have any instances of Primals being able to physically bully Pochita?

 

[Lilybitdun]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ElJoaki5/Chainsaw_Man:_Michigan_&_Oregon_Sword_Full_Calc

The timeframe is a little off. In the same link for the terminal velocity speed it notes how it takes 12s for someone to reach terminal velocity with them crossing a distance of 1500ft / 457.2m
Falling the rest of the distance: (1000-457.2)/53=10.2415s
12+10.2415= 22.2415s
very negligible difference

I feel like the roughly 1s per panel is a little questionable, might be reasonable to round up to 30s

 

[ElJoaki5]

multi continental

We aint running this wank

 

[Sammy818]

multi continental

No one gonna scale to it most likely, gonna be similar to ftl+ gun devil. Also kinda a problem considering the very next supposedly “superior attack” was a town level nuke

 

[ElJoaki5]

The timeframe is a little off. In the same link for the terminal velocity speed it notes how it takes 12s for someone to reach terminal velocity with them crossing a distance of 1500ft / 457.2m
Falling the rest of the distance: (1000-457.2)/53=10.2415s
12+10.2415= 22.2415s
very negligible difference

I feel like the roughly 1s per panel is a little questionable, might be reasonable to round up to 30s

Back in my day we ignored air resistance

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Is there a statement it is dura neg?

now but we currently accept it as such with solid reasoning

• Biological Manipulation (With a simple stare, Makima has shown to be able to cause massive amounts of bleeding from a person's eyes, nose, and mouth. While the exact method used by her isn't explicit, it's likely that she used some sort of biological attack to cause internal hemorrhaging within that man's brain with her stare.Uses a similar attack against the Darkness Devil later on.

Makima didn't even have bang yet due to not yet defeating the gun devil as, due to Yoru, we see that bang comes from the gun devil (which makes since. "Bang" after all)

Is Falling actually weakened? The source of that statement is Death who was lying about her abilities in the scene she said it.

the fact she was one pumped by Nuke Yoru, who, after getting stronger from exp farming in hell (I think she got stronger, I only hazily remember the details), went to harm P2 Pochita corroborates the statement

So do we have any other instances of Primals doing anything physically comparable to Gun Devil? Do we have any instances of Primals being able to physically bully Pochita?

Aging seemingly harms Pochita when they crush but at the same time Pochita 100% harms them afterward

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

now but we currently accept it as such with solid reasoning

• Biological Manipulation (With a simple stare, Makima has shown to be able to cause massive amounts of bleeding from a person's eyes, nose, and mouth. While the exact method used by her isn't explicit, it's likely that she used some sort of biological attack to cause internal hemorrhaging within that man's brain with her stare.Uses a similar attack against the Darkness Devil later on.

Makima didn't even have bang yet due to not yet defeating the gun devil as, due to Yoru, we see that bang comes from the gun devil (which makes since. "Bang" after all)

the fact she was one pumped by Nuke Yoru, who, after getting stronger from exp farming in hell (I think she got stronger, I only hazily remember the details), went to harm P2 Pochita corroborates the statement

Aging seemingly harms Pochita when they crush but at the same time Pochita 100% harms them afterward

That isn’t evidence it is dura neg. The evidence you even posted literally says we don’t know how it works.

That isn’t evidence she was weakened as Falling has like no durability feats and part 2 Pochita is the same guy who got harmed by pre nuke amp Yoru so it doesn’t even mean anything. Heck we see pre nuke amp Yoru harm Falling as well.

The fact that the statement of Falling being weakened comes from a character who was actively lying for most of the story and was lying about her powers makes it very suspect

So Aging is harmed by a character than pre nuke amped Yoru turned into a nugget? This doesn’t support Primals being physically above the verse.

 

[GunshyFever]

Man, I'd love to help answer this confusion, but I have a huge ass cast on my hand,w hich is preventing me from doing jack. I'll settle your thoughts in 2 weeks.