Cerberumon vs Composite Link

[Cropfist]

Speed equalized.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Oh thanks Crop.

Anyway this fight depends on whether Link in-character start with Time Stop.

If not, then I can see Cerberumon howling to seal Links abilities before either destroying his soul or banishing him to the Dark Area.

So for now I vote Cerberumon.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Un seconde. Small revision which may get Link to have resistance to Power Nullification. Though most of his hax comes from items.

But disregarding that. Link's far from stranger to people who abuse sound moves. Including howling. In fact, he does both himself. So Link is going to either drown him out with his own music or teleport himself out of there or attack when he sees something reminiscent of that. Furthermore, the Magic Mirror gets him out of the Dark Area, as it gets him out of the Dark World. Link also has soul manipulation and resistance to help him out, as he resisted Sharp's soul-killing song long enough to play the Song of Healing, and that itself is a soul-healing thing.

Finally, Link is a character who will abuse any weakness and item he can find, similar to Mega Man.

So I vote for the fairy boy.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It isn't Power Nullification, it's Sealing

Technically the howl is not even an attack, soooo I doubt Link would automatically assume to drown him in it.

Will it really get him out when he's immediately erased into nonexistence? It's not Soul Manipulation it's Existence Erasure. Only thing he safe from is the Durability Negation.

This is also assuming he can move in that timeless space.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Huh...the item thing still stands ovo.

I mean, neither is that of the Shadow Beasts, or Wolf Link for that matter. Link just knows that howling=bad.

Is it really immediate? Like, not gradual at all? Because Link just needs 2 seconds to get out. Mind giving more ideas of the mechanics?

Considering that's why he's infinite, I'd assume he could.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I was speaking of his items Plenty of Digimon hax is also weapon based. See Imperialdramon and Omegamon.

But do those howls seal abilities? The moment he hears the howl it's goodbye abilities.

Yes actually. When sent to the Dark Area a being's very existence is erased. " Having emerged from the abyss of the Dark Area, it is a dark Demon Beast Digimon. Its large build is that of a demon beast, as immense as a mountain and possessing sturdy limbs, and attached to its lower half is a "Maw" large enough to swallow everything. What is more, it is said that the hole is connected to the abyss of the Dark Area, and it's said that those who are sucked in have their souls (Digicores) smashed to pieces and are no longer able to escape. Its power is mighty, and it's also said that it could destroy the world in seven days "~ [Digimon Reference Book (Gulfmon) It should be noted that Digicores are more than just souls. Digicores are the mind, body, soul and everything else that makes up an existence.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Thing is, since Link is well...Link, exploitation extraordinaire, he's going to play his own music to do whatever he can to not hear it. He did that with Sharp, one of the Composer Brothers, and stopped taking damage when he was playing the Song of Storms.

In that case, I keep my statement intact. Link has Soul Resistance that'll last long enough to grab the Mirror. The Dark World is the same experience, but replace existence erasure with transmutation, so there's little chance he won't escape.

Digicore vs SOUL vs Star Seed lol

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Except how will he do so when even his body gets destroyed along with mind and flat out existence immediately. Matter of fact can he even move in a timeless space?

Did he do that immediately when he heard a howl? Matter of fact he doesn't even need to hear it tbh as it is never stated the opponent needs to hear the how. So either way Link's abilities are getting sealed. Don't you love loop holes?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We aren't given an immediate timeframe tho. We can't assume literal instantaneousness. And considering said Void is the reason the dog is infinite, I'd assume so. Otherwise, speed isn't really equalized

I do love loopholes.

If we assume that he doesn't need to hear it, then it would have to be soundwave based, and therefore, Link can just run away from it, as he's either Relativisticor Infinite for this site. Also, Link learns from his experiences, but when he hears a howl that's bad, it's because Shadow Beasts are resurrecting their fallen with the song. And if Link didn't kill them all at once, it happens, and normally he's too far away to stop it.

I really love loopholes.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"We aren't given an immediate timeframe tho. We can't assume literal instantaneousness. And considering said Void is the reason the dog is infinite, I'd assume so. Otherwise, speed isn't really equalized"

We kinda can though. You know why? Because when a Digimon is sent to the Dark Area after death it is immediately judged by Anubismon. Anubis literally grants an artificial Mid-Godly Regen to good Digimon and turns them into Digitama, or just leaves them nonexistent. This is immediate. Unless you can prove to me that it isn't.

"We aren't given an immediate timeframe tho. We can't assume literal instantaneousness. And considering said Void is the reason the dog is infinite, I'd assume so. Otherwise, speed isn't really equalized"

Or Cerberu is scaled down to Relativistic. And speed equalization areas aren't equalized. Just speed. Unlike Cerberumon, Link doesn't naturally inhabit the area. So technically by our rules Cerberumon would be scaled down.

"If we assume that he doesn't need to hear it, then it would have to be soundwave based, and therefore, Link can just run away from it, as he's either Relativisticor Infinite for this site. Also, Link learns from his experiences, but when he hears a howl that's bad, it's because Shadow Beasts are resurrecting their fallen with the song. And if Link didn't kill them all at once, it happens, and normally he's too far away to stop it."

He learns yes, doesn't mean he'll immediately run away from a howl. Logically he'll try to stop it based on the example you gave. You're using the "He learns from his mistakes" to justify him immediately running away from a fight in which Cerberu can chase him and howl or just flat out use Inferno Gate instantly.

 

[PaChi2]

I like how everyone forgets that this is a 4 vs 1 battle since link can multiply himself by 4 with the Four Sword. Proceed with time stop and kill Cerberumon. And thinking the howl will reach the 4 of them at the same time before he timestops is unlikely.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I like how people forget that while link multiplies Cerberumon can howl during the split.

 

[PaChi2]

well, the splitting is instantaneous, speed is equalized, Link can safely split before he gets howl'd.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

People act as if a howl takes forever to happen. It is literally nothing more than the equivalent of a dog barking. Are you saying Link can split AND time stop before a single sound is made? How does his time stop work at that? The moment the howl starts it is game over.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That doesn't sound immediate, and having immediate in the title doesn't mean velocity = 0. Sounds more like Anubismon is waiting for them. At least a little bit of cinematic time passed. Basically, nothing (other than being a timeless void and all) implies being instantaneous rather than relatively wuick.

Not entirely. Ever and I were going back and forward on this. It's not giaranteed. Also, Link throughout all of OoT was sent back and forward to the place where he was sealed beyond timespace, to keep him out of Ganon's reach until he was ready, so...yeah. Actually, speaking of sealing, Link possesses the full triforce. The triforce itself is sealed almost 24/7 to keep jerks like Ganon from getting it, yet it's power still balances the world.

I was being facetious (in a harmless, non jerky way). As it's far more likely to be via hearing than via phonons. Like a bell toll kinda thing.

Assuming Link, the item abuser doesn't timestop and hax after that.

 

[PaChi2]

The time stop works instantly, I mean, in Phantom Hourglass you took an item, activated the Hourglass and puff, timestop. Composite link is supposed to already have the item so...

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"That doesn't sound immediate, and having immediate in the title doesn't mean velocity = 0. Sounds more like Anubismon is waiting for them. At least a little bit of cinematic time passed. Basically, nothing (other than being a timeless void and all) implies being instantaneous rather than relatively wuick."

You realize the soul has to get to the Dark Area first right? And based on Gulfmon's entry it is fast enough to at least keep link from moving. Once you get sent to the Dark Area it is game over. Note how Digimon like the Royal Knights can't survive this fate(They have died countless times) And there is is also the simple fact that the Dark Area erases your existence. I have never seen Soul hax resistance save you from complete existence erasure. Heck I guess we can argue every existence erasure give the one effected to maneuver. Yet it is never treated like that. I should note that NO DIGIMON is safe from this.

"Not entirely. Ever and I were going back and forward on this. It's not giaranteed. Also, Link throughout all of OoT was sent back and forward to the place where he was sealed beyond timespace, to keep him out of Ganon's reach until he was ready, so...yeah. Actually, speaking of sealing, Link possesses the full triforce. The triforce itself is sealed almost 24/7 to keep jerks like Ganon from getting it, yet it's power still balances the world."

Irrelevant as it is not on his file. Also Both are 4-C so balancing the world is not that impressive. As far as I know Link is only Relativisitc and Cerberumon is scaled down. Simple as that.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

The time stop works instantly, I mean, in Phantom Hourglass you took an item, activated the Hourglass and puff, timestop. Composite link is supposed to already have the item so...

Would he start with that? What motions must he make? Unlike Databook Cerberumon who hasn't ever been seen in a fight, Link has been in multiple fight, tell me how many he has started with Time Stop. Especially against a foe he has no knowledge on.

 

[PaChi2]

Well, technically in-verse he cant because normally you dont have a fullpower Hourglass at the start. But in Phantom Hourglass I'd say its really in character to start by timestop, it gives plenty of info about your enemies' weakspots and in the final boss you need to timestop in order to win.

My guess is that he will abuse Timestop because... well, he is experienced enough to exploit his own strenghts and uses his items efficently.

 

[Executor_N0]

Note how Digimon like the Royal Knights can't survive this fate(They have died countless times).

Well, Dukemon X-Antibody escaped that fate.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^Well that X-Antibody does help since it is a natural resistance to existence erasure.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That doesn't prove he will time stop immediately. What gives Links info on his enemies. Most fights Links starts off with Sword attacks. What makes this any different?

 

[PaChi2]

Because in most games you can't Timestop. Link would use timestop at the start to test Cerberumon's durability.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

But there is an equal chance he will not.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Let's assume he does go from time stop, once again I'm still not sure that works on beings who live in a timeless void naturally. How does time stop work on a character who is naturally from a timeless void?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Didn't you open a thread for that once? Nobody replied?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I did. Didn't really get that much of an answer. From what I got, it depends on if the character is still Infinite speed outside the Dimension. Or depends on the verse in general.

 

[PaChi2]

But there is an equal chance he will not.

Why wouldnt he activate the most broken technique he has that gives him preparation time (which he loves to have due to his strategist nature)?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I can turn that around and say why wouldn't he treat Cerberumon like ther other creatures he fights and go for a sword strike. And once again I am still unsure on whether Time Stop will work on a being who naturally inhabits a world that lacks time to begin with.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Link is like Mega Man in that regard. That he'll use the most effective method right off the bat. It's why Repp is able to argue Mega Man would Time stop to absolute zero ice, instead of mega buster spam. Because that's Mega Man's strategy. To be as effective as possible and exploit as many weaknesses as he can find. Link is the same way. Btw, Link timestops with the Phantom Hourglass, the Stasis Rune, or the Stopwatch from NES Zelda.

Unless they resist time manipulation, then they shouldn't have it. That goes for the people who move in a timeless void. Time Stops aren't the same as a complete void. If he's scaled down as you say, then definitely not.

The fact that no one escaped from it doesn't mean it's inescapable, Royal Knights included. They don't have a way out. While Link has an item directly built for escaping a realm surprisingly similar to the Dark Area. And for the record, being able to kill a soul along with everything else is existence erasure. Not even bringing in Link's resurrection. Furthermore, Link has his soul linked (no pun intended) to his body via the Triforce, as in the events of TP, he and Zelda are the only non-Twili to keep their bodies instead of being solely their souls (still not intended)

About sealing, you lost me. The Triforce is almost always sealed away in another realm. Yet the world needs the Triforce to survive, as if it is gone, the world literally falls apart. Yet Hyrule is still here. Actually, I haven't asked you has it worked on weapons? Not that hax comes from weapons in the verse, but if Cerberumon has sealed abilities from items.

Finally, most of Link's adventures have a lot of magical sounds. Recorder in the first one, Ocarina in ALTTP, OoT, MM, and LA, several others in LA, howling in TP, singing wind in WW, and probably others. If Link sees something look like it's going to howl, he's going to react. As he really hates howls (Re-Deads, Gibdos, Shadow Beasts, Re-Dead Knights, King Dodongo)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Btw, I haven't read this since befor PaChi posted. So I'm probably ninja'd as hard as anything. And I am responding to all since before Pa-Chi's post.

 

[PaChi2]

I can turn that around and say why wouldn't he treat Cerberumon like ther other creatures he fights and go for a sword strike. And once again I am still unsure on whether Time Stop will work on a being who naturally inhabits a world that lacks time to begin with.

Because Standard battle assumptions assumes he wants to kill Cerberumon and Link is as effective as he can be. In the games you are not timestoping everytime because it has limited uses and you dont want to waste it on minions and reserve it for bosses. If you think Link will treat Cerberumon as a Baba plant... well... its doubtful.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

For example, about the infinite thing, Immeasurable beings aren't no-selling time, space, and causality manipulation without resistances, despite the fact that in order to be Immeasurable, they have to be beyond that.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Standard Battle assumptions are in-character but willing to kill. He does not immediately have to kill.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You ignored me ;_;

 

[PaChi2]

Standard Battle assumptions are in-character but willing to kill. He does not immediately have to kill.

The difference between "willing to kill" and "wanting to kill"?

Also, Cal has a point on the howl thing, Link has already faced beings that try to attack by emiting howls, he wont probably tank it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I would also like to state that Bubbles (skull-like enemies) do the same sealing abilities and items thing as Cerberumon (as in Link can't literally do anything but run), and stuff like Nayru's Love, the Magic Armor, or other invincibility items completely no-sell it.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

"Unless they resist time manipulation, then they shouldn't have it. That goes for the people who move in a timeless void. Time Stops aren't the same as a complete void. If he's scaled down as you say, then definitely not."

Wouldn't someone who is not effected by time outside of causality not be affected by Time Manipulation though?

"The fact that no one escaped from it doesn't mean it's inescapable, Royal Knights included. They don't have a way out. While Link has an item directly built for escaping a realm surprisingly similar to the Dark Area. And for the record, being able to kill a soul along with everything else is existence erasure. Not even bringing in Link's resurrection. Furthermore, Link has his soul linked (no pun intended) to his body via the Triforce, as in the events of TP, he and Zelda are the only non-Twili to keep their bodies instead of being solely their souls (still not intended)"

Ummm You do realize the Royal Knights are also able to cross dimensions with portals correct? Link is no different. How is it similar to the Dark Area. Then pray tell why do we treat soul resistance and existence erasure resistance as two different things? How will Link do anything when his mind and body are also getting erased? Unless he has some magical Type 8 immortality, he's not surviving that.

"About sealing, you lost me. The Triforce is almost always sealed away in another realm. Yet the world needs the Triforce to survive, as if it is gone, the world literally falls apart. Yet Hyrule is still here. Actually, I haven't asked you has it worked on weapons? Not that hax comes from weapons in the verse, but if Cerberumon has sealed abilities from items."

I don't see why not? Many Digimon have abilities that are items, From Wisemon to Duramon. Heck Digimon like Zubamon are items themselves.

"Finally, most of Link's adventures have a lot of magical sounds. Recorder in the first one, Ocarina in ALTTP, OoT, MM, and LA, several others in LA, howling in TP, singing wind in WW, and probably others. If Link sees something look like it's going to howl, he's going to react. As he really hates howls (Re-Deads, Gibdos, Shadow Beasts, Re-Dead Knights, King Dodongo)"

He can react all he want. Heck Cerberumon has Precog as well to help him. But let's say Link stops him in time. What will he do? How long can he do it?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I would also like to state that Bubbles (skull-like enemies) do the same sealing abilities and items thing as Cerberumon (as in Link can't literally do anything but run), and stuff like Nayru's Love, the Magic Armor, or other invincibility items completely no-sell it.

Source?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

If it's magic based, then don't expect them to counter this.