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CC Goku vs Dante

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Isn't Resistance Negation negating Layers NLF?
Yes, Power Null page says so, you cannot assume RN insta negs layers, its case by case. Also Res Neg isn't exclusive from Power Null either, especially since it is just power null being applied to layers surgically. We don't assume power null insta neg any powers or tiers, same for res neg, it cannot be assumed insta neg of layers.
 
It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and also that a character may be resistant to the ability, at least in one of its forms, preventing it from having its usual effects.

However, certain forms of Power Nullification may prevent the usage of powers through less direct methods, making resistance less useful and the strength of the ability less relevant.

Resistance Negation is the ability to remove an opponent's ability to resist the effects of other powers, allowing the user to then affect them with those abilities. In extreme cases, this ability can even override apparent immunity.

However, simply overwhelming something with hax stronger than what they can resist normally wouldn't qualify. Keep in mind, there are limits when it comes to this ability. Characters who do have Resistance Negation wouldn't be capable of negating all of their opponent's resistances unless there is more to their power than what has been shown.
 
Yes, Power Null page says so, you cannot assume RN insta negs layers, its case by case. Also Res Neg isn't exclusive from Power Null either, especially since it is just power null being applied to layers surgically. We don't assume power null insta neg any powers or tiers, same for res neg, it cannot be assumed insta neg of layers.
What the hell? Resistance Negation directly targeting your resistance, either ignoring it or nullifying it completely, resistance layers is completely irrelevant toward resistance negation, same as hax layer is completely irrelevant toward power nullification if you don't have resistance toward power null.

The NLF part is referring to that you can't assume power null can't null all power & abilities, it is only able to null what abilities it show to have nulled in the verse, for example if Power Null in the verse only nulled IM2 and CM1, we can only say it can null IM2 and CM1, not other abilities, same with resistance negation which interacting with hax resistance instead. It have nothing to do with layers
 
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What the hell? Resistance Negation directly targeting your resistance, either ignoring it or nullifying it completely, resistance layers is completely irrelevant toward resistance negation, same as hax layer is completely irrelevant toward power nullification if you don't have resistance toward power null.

The NLF part is referring to that you can't assume power null can't null all power & abilities, it is only able to null what abilities it show to have nulled in the verse, for example if Power Null in the verse only nulled IM2 and CM1, we can only say it can null IM2 and CM1, not other abilities, same with resistance negation which interacting with hax resistance instead. It have nothing to do with layers
It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified
If the strongest thing your Resistance Negation has nullified is 1 layer of resistance to X, you shouldn't be able to nullify 2 layers of resistance of X based on the above quote.
 
What the hell? Resistance Negation directly targeting your resistance, either ignoring it or nullifying it completely, resistance layers is completely irrelevant toward resistance negation, same as hax layer is completely irrelevant toward power nullification if you don't have resistance toward power null.

The NLF part is referring to that you can't assume power null can't null all power & abilities, it is only able to null what abilities it show to have nulled in the verse, for example if Power Null in the verse only nulled IM2 and CM1, we can only say it can null IM2 and CM1, not other abilities, same with resistance negation which interacting with hax resistance instead. It have nothing to do with layers
Go make a CRT. Complete NLF on RN part. I quoted the page, I am correct.
 
If the strongest thing your Resistance Negation has nullified is 1 layer of resistance to X, you shouldn't be able to nullify 2 layers of resistance of X based on the above quote.
That not what the page say, what the hell?

Go make a CRT. Complete NLF on RN part. I quoted the page, I am correct.
Did you even see the page mention anything about layers?
 
If the strongest thing your Resistance Negation has nullified is 1 layer of resistance to X, you shouldn't be able to nullify 2 layers of resistance of X based on the above quote.
It's talking about power null not resistance negation,resistance negation has a seperate entry on the page
 
It's talking about power null not resistance negation,resistance negation has a seperate entry on the page
It's talking about any negation power...
It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified
Resistance Negation is also just a subset of power null so same limitations obviously apply to both
 
I don't care that much about this match up.

But so many times I have seen Res Neg being treated as some omnipotent ability that insta negs every resistance and layer, it's complete wank and agenda. This has been a prevalent idea on this forrum for a long time, especially with members making up headcanons..

This shit needs to die.
 
It's talking about any negation power...

Resistance Negation is also just a subset of power null so same limitations obviously apply to both
"Strongest thing it has nullified"

Not to mention it is under power null tab rather than resistance negation if you have a problem go make a q&a thread for it for clarification

Also resistance negation definition and it's capabilities are given in seperate entry
 
Yeah, because Resistance Negation still nullifies resistances, that's how the power works

Because it is a subset of Power Nullification, hence why they're on the same page to begin with
The above negation is talking about abilities negation or in this sense nullifying abilities like i said if you have a query you can make a q&a thread to clarify
 
There's reason RN is defined in the same page as PN. Its literally a subset category. Its just same mechanic but more local target on resistance.

People are saying them being mentioned differently in same page as if it's some sort of "gotcha" moment. This is just pedantry and semantics to push agenda.

Just like emphatic hax or memory hax is considered subset of mind manipulation in many cases and relevant mind resistance can protect against madness or fear aura. You don't need a seperate fear or madness resistance.
That's just basic common sense, even tho these abilities are mentioned on completely different pages.
Want another example? Information Analysis is considered subset necessary under Power Mimicry. And even they have seperate pages.
 
Honestly I think some changes need to be made. Not standard changes, no, just that we need concise word usage on the page. I feel as though it’s too up for interpretation and due to that there’s been a lot of disproportionate views. I don’t even know what to believe anymore but, I’ve asked one staff member if they could offer their input before this thread goes bunk. Obviously, not everything has to be spoon fed and named out but I think it would help to mention “layers” and add another example of NLF args.
 
What the hell? Resistance Negation directly targeting your resistance, either ignoring it or nullifying it completely, resistance layers is completely irrelevant toward resistance negation, same as hax layer is completely irrelevant toward power nullification if you don't have resistance toward power null.
Resistance Nullification is reducing a resistance to 0. This is different from Resistance Layers, which is how much potency you can withstand of an ability like telepathy.

Resistance Nullification can negate an ability up to a scale that it's been shown (so a Resistance Nullification of a 2-C ability is not assumed to work on a Low 1-C ability), but layers do not have an effect on it if its within the same range. Only Resistance to Resistance Nullification or general Resistance to Power Nullification would directly counter the power.
 
so a Resistance Nullification of a 2-C ability is not assumed to work on a Low 1-C ability
wut?. bro we stop applying tier or dimensionality on non-physical hax, unless it is 1-A and above
 
wut?. bro we stop applying tier or dimensionality on non-physical hax, unless it is 1-A and above
I feel like you didn't understand my comment and the page based on this comment. That scale was in reference to this page note:
It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and also that a character may be resistant to the ability, at least in one of its forms, preventing it from having its usual effects.
The strongest thing it has nullified is talking about the scale or potency of an ability, which I was demonstrating through power ranges as that's the easiest thing for someone to understand. As Low 1-C range > 2-C range.
 
Only Resistance to Resistance Nullification or general Resistance to Power Nullification would directly counter the power.
So resisting Power Nullification(I'm guessing the PN in question has to nullify, let's say, some power system that also grants you your resistances) would allow you to resist Resistance Negation, is that correct?
 
So resisting Power Nullification(I'm guessing the PN in question has to nullify, let's say, some power system that also grants you your resistances) would allow you to resist Resistance Negation, is that correct?
Resistance to Power Nullification includes Resistance Nullification by default. So if you can resist Power Null our system says you can resist Resistance Null.
 
I'm pretty sure soul being deeper than concepts already has been debunked by Vieth. It just makes souls immunity to CM destruction but not getting their other aspects destroyed.
Debunked? Firstly it's even more complicated than just being deeper, but that we will handle in another CRT and blog.
Secondly, this is a weird argument.
1. The Source is not deeper than the Body in MGK only immune to it's destruction.
2. The Soul in GoW is not deeper than the body only immune to it's physical destruction.
3. Concepts, Info, Plot, Laws in the wiki are not superior to Souls in general, just characters made of such abstractions are immune to destruction of their soul etc.

If you can see the problem, that's good. I can go on with more examples but the point should be clear by now.

We have a concept of Fundamental Aspect, that is the most fundamental to an entity's existence. Entity can persist or regenerate other aspects but erasure of FA can affect it. The FA generally helps to identify the order of aspects.
I hope this helps.
That’s pretty much what my comment entails and to be fair I’m starting to get lost on what’s true and what’s not true. I did make this QnA thread with the intent of someone helping me understand but it didn’t gain much traction and there were only two answers. But assuming Hecky’s comment was true which I’m unsure of,
You can just read the page.
Hecky, is kinda correct but it need not be limited to AE1 of the Metaphysical Aspect.
Y's Info hax could erase the body by virtue of erasing the info but it can be regenerated by X's Metaphysical Aspect. It is reliant on it and not on Info.
However, since we don't have a common aspect to ascertain clear hierarchy and benchmark the aspects between these two verses, it would be considered indeterminate and neither can affect the other.
 
Resistance to Power Nullification includes Resistance Nullification by default. So if you can resist Power Null our system says you can resist Resistance Null.
A bit unrelated to the current topics but still related to this thread.
How does the wiki deal with multiple temporal dimensions history erasure and acausality, particularly Type 1, 2, and 4?
 
Resistance to Power Nullification includes Resistance Nullification by default. So if you can resist Power Null our system says you can resist Resistance Null.
what?. No, that is not the case, wth? it is NLF to assume that Power Null also includes Resistance Negation here, so resisting Power Null would not allows you to resist Resistance Negation, the verse need to show that way
 
what?. No, that is not the case, wth? it is NLF to assume that Power Null also includes Resistance Negation here, so resisting Power Null would not allows you to resist Resistance Negation, the verse need to show that way
If the Power Null is negating an attack or power specifically it doesn't count. If the Power Null is "All of your powers are negated in this area" it does count, as the power null is suppressing all abilities.

Like if Dante can shoot a fire ball past the Fireball Negation barrier that is not a feat for Resistance Nullification but Power Null against Fire Manipulation resistance. If Dante is in "The Power Nullification Field" and shoots a fire ball anyways that would be Resistance to Resistance Nullification to my knowledge as Dante is actively resisting all of his abilities being negated.
 
but layers do not have an effect on it if its within the same range.
Lets say due to ridiculous arms race of evolution for hax and resistance ended up with certain X character adapting infinite layers of resistance. Lets say soul hax and resistance for example, then some new character Y comes in with Resistance Neg/Power Null soul hax, would that nullify all those infinite layers and defeat the character X?
 
Lets say due to ridiculous arms race of evolution for hax and resistance ended up with certain X character adapting infinite layers of resistance. Lets say soul hax and resistance for example, then some new character Y comes in with Resistance Neg/Power Null soul hax, would that nullify all those infinite layers and defeat the character X?
Resistance means you're resisting the application of a power. If you have infinite layers of Soul Manipulation Resistance, it means your Soul is able to resist Soul Manipulation of infinite potency.

But Resistance Negation is making your resistance value 0, which has nothing to do with Soul Manipulation. So having infinite layers does nothing against it as its application is irrelevant to the power interaction. For the same reason why resisting Spatial Manipulation doesn't give you Information Manipulation Resistance, as those are just two different abilities.
 
But Resistance Negation is making your resistance value 0, which has nothing to do with Soul Manipulation
No, I meant the numbers of layer part. Can you really assume RN can neg infinity layers, not just 1 if it's featless or max number based on feats shown. Saying so many layers getting begged seem NLF
 
Can you really assume RN can neg infinity layers, not just 1 if it's featless or max number based on feats shown. Saying so many layers getting begged seem NLF
That's not a NLF because it's different power interaction. For example, would having infinite Soul Manipulation Resistance layers give you resistance to Fire Manipulation? How about telepathy? How about status effect Inducement? How about power nullification?

The answer to all questions is no.

The power is negating a resistance. The potency of the resistance is not relevant unless they can resist the negation itself.
 
That's not a NLF because it's different power interaction. For example, would having infinite Soul Manipulation Resistance layers give you resistance to Fire Manipulation? How about telepathy? How about status effect Inducement? How about power nullification?

The answer to all questions is no.

The power is negating a resistance. The potency of the resistance is not relevant unless they can resist the negation itself.
You kinda strawmanned me there. I know difference between abilities. I just propped up a scenario to ask my question. I'll just do it bluntly since you seem to be confused.

What I am asking is why is a featless Resistance Negation being assumed to null infinity layers? Wouldn't the max layers you can null be limited to your best feats? I nulled only for example 15 layers, can I assume I can null 16 or 17 layers in a match or even infinity layers?
 
What I am asking is why is a featless Resistance Negation being assumed to null infinity layers?
Because it's not nullifying infinite layers. It's nullifying a single ability, which is Soul Manipulation Resistance. Layers only matter when its a power vs its dedicated resistance. If you have no Resistance to Resistance Nullification, then it doesn't matter how many layers you have, as your layers of Resistance to Resistance Nullification is 0.
 
I'll be blunt, that doesn't sit right with me, that page needs a good CRT discussion in that case. Maybe later when I am not busy.
I think Qaws is right in that. Res Neg is not nulling X Hax Layers, it is nulling Resistance to X Hax layers.

But it kinda doesn't matter here cause it's blanket layered Power Null for Soul/Magic stuff in DMC case.
 
Rn is crazy NLF ability ngl but Power Nullification and RN kinda different imo. So idt personally Power Nullification resistance would work against RN

Also Trish X Dante ship sucks btw
 
Rn is crazy NLF ability ngl but Power Nullification and RN kinda different imo. So idt personally Power Nullification resistance would work against RN
Res Neg is just Power Null of Res, it's like literally there on the page. A subset of power null that specifically targets resistance.
 
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