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Cave Story Speed Revision

Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer

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VS Battles
Retired
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Cave Story is one of my favorite games of all time. It has a good story, characters, plays off tropes very well, and has amazing mechanics. The music is also superb.

However, some user that created the profiles seems to not understand the speed of the characters. For instance, the reason everyone is MHS is becuase Quote dodges "missles and lighting". And every other character is scaled to him. Citation needed?

Firstly, this is not natural lightning. It's a magic based attack, and on-screen/in-game it does not move much faster than the character, which we can see moves at a speed in the range of Human level and Superhuman. It doesn't jump across the screen faster than a single frame, and there's no cinematic time. The game features no cutscenes, just tect boxes and instances the player must read while somthing else happens, but the entire game is played at one speed.

Secondly, the missles. Most of you know how fast a missile is. However, in the game, most of these explosive projectiles do not seem to move like real life missiles launched from silos, or something of that sort. They don't move anywhere near that fast. In fact you can see they move like RPG-7 rockets. Key word rockets, not missiles. Just cause the game is poorly translated doesn't mean it should still be seen as a missile and therefore move as fast as one. Even if it was intended, there are instances where we know the actuallity of author/writer's intent/WoG doesn't portray how fast something actually is.

And from the Cave Story Wiki, it does say it is a "long range arm dealing big damage" but this is revised to say "wide range" in a remake of the game, further showing the translation errors. From what Hop knows, it might be a modified/cartoony version of the RPG-7, since it seems that is the closest thing we can compare it to.

But furthermore, It's not even these missiles he's dodging. No other character in the game uses this weapon. I suspect he is referring to this final fights of the game. In which the boss Undead Core and the Doctor have magic like missiles it fights with.

Really what I think is going off the lore and gameplay. Quote is a robot, so it's safe to assume he's on the high end of this gap. His movement speed and reaction might be very high on the scale but other than that I am ceratin they are not MHS.
 
Using the argument that Lightning doesn't LOOK to move like lighning doesn't work. Although I'm guessing it being magical may disprove it's MHS+ status already.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Using the argument that Lightning doesn't LOOK to move like lighning doesn't work. Although I'm guessing it being magical may disprove it's MHS+ status already.
How so? Just because either of us say it is or isn't doesn't make it so, it works either way. It also isn't "lightning". It's electricity being used as a weapon. Also it doesn't make sense for "lightning" to move twice as fast as a bubble. (There is a bubble shooting-firearm in the game).

For your second sentence: Yes, This page says this already.

"Most lightning in fiction are not real lightning. Often they are supernatural in nature and are possibly not even electricity. Therefore lightning are only accepted as such under certain circumstances."
 
I hope you realize that if we followed your logic more than 80% of fiction would be Human level, right? A lot of character moves at speed much faster than the normal speed of projectiles they are hit with, especially in a video game.
 
You seem to be unfamiliar with this game, and that is not "my logic". I'm going by what we see, what I can see as a player, and this wiki's standard assumtions, as well as criticism/skeptical nature. It also counts as an inconsitency to move at MHS and get caught off guard by a Human level enemy, right? Good strawman right there. I never wanted anyone to follow anything of mine. I want to accuratly index the verse and characters.

Also, I am simply pointing out how flawed the scaling it. Also going by YOUR logic, CoD characters must be subsonic due to sometimes dodging bullets, right? Otherwise, I don't well understand your argument there.

What's the big factor in this speed is the lightning, since electriciy is faster than "missiles". The missiles are more like RPG rockets than anything.

The "lightning" is not lightning, period. Quote (or any other character for that matter) does not dodge it in the traditional sense, as it is rather aim dodging ("This technique is widely seen in fiction, and allows a lot of characters to dodge attacks/projectiles much faster than their own reactions"), and furthermore, fictional electricity can move at any number of speeds. From 0 to infinite or immeasurable, whatever the creator wishes it to be. And I'm certain Pixel and the feats in the game don't intend to show they moving and fighting at such speeds.
 
By what feat do you have such characters at Human level? Being featless doesn't make you Human level. Beside, regular mook enemy taking on the player is usually considered Gameplay Mechanic.

Depends how they do it. If it's not aim-dodging and they legitimately dodges then yes they are subsonic.

I'm not arguing weather or not this lightning is real or not. Just that saying that Quote gets hit by bubbles isn't in anyway a good way to disprove higher speed feat.

We tend to not care about Author intend here.
 
He does not get hit by bubbles. Read it again.

Quote has a gun that shoots bubbles .

"Tend not to care about the author intend here"

Are you dense or blind? One Word of God statement dropped Tier 0 TOAA to Tier 1. WoG and what they say about their verse matters more than anything shown or calced.

In fact, the common heiarchy in most situations goes: WoG>Feats>Calcs.
 
"However, the writer Al Ewing retconned Marvel's definition of an omniverse into a far lesser structure, though to what degree is unknown."
 
That is why we dropped his tier. And besides, Pixel almost never talks about this game when it comes to indexing sites like ours.
 
It works in the same way. DIO can hit people with throwing knives, but that doesn't disprove MFTL speed for those who gets it.

The only reasons TOAA was 0 was because of a WoG. WoG rectconned it so that TOAA wasn't 0 anymore.

Also do you even..? WoG states that Homestuck can't go beyond Relativistic. Gee look at that, MFTL+ speed.

Same for a Flash feat that was called "Below Light Speed" was actually Trillions of c.

WoG has the same importance as statement except with the unreliability. Rick's WoG statement got "Possibly" even though it wasn't contradictory for him, due to it being a statement.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
It works in the same way. DIO can hit people with throwing knives, but that doesn't disprove MFTL speed for those who gets it.
The only reasons TOAA was 0 was because of a WoG. WoG rectconned it so that TOAA wasn't 0 anymore.

Also do you even..? WoG states that Homestuck can't go beyond Relativistic. Gee look at that, MFTL+ speed.

Same for a Flash feat that was called "Below Light Speed" was actually Trillions of c.

WoG has the same importance as statement except with the unreliability. Rick's WoG statement got "Possibly" even though it wasn't contradictory for him, due to it being a statement.
You seem to think I believe this applies everywhere. You must have missed where I used the words:

"common" and "in most situations"

Meaning I am aware of those instances in which it isn't always true.
 
It has no reasons to apply here. Not only, as you said, the author has made no statement about their powerlevel. And again, being comparable in speed in-game to slow stuff doesn't mean you are lower in speed, unless the character is portrayed as weaker much more often than what they have shown for feat, which doesn't seem to be the case here.
 
How can you say that? Have you played the game or seen a playthough? Outside of what I've shraed that is.

Also I bet you didn't notice the crosshair in the gameplay. You can see where the "lightning" attack is going to go, therefore it's probably aim doging, and this crosshair appears often, likely a feature of Quote's robot body. Although the wiki and official site say nothing about this.
 
Bro I'm not talking about that feat being legit.

I'm saying that if it was, Quote moving at similar speed to his bubbles attack or getting attacked by Mooks wouldn't be enough to disprove it.
 
Oh, of course. But then again, Mimiga and other lesser beings such as fish move at similar speeds.

Nothing other than the "lightning" feat itself suggests the verse and characters are above what ever they truly are.
 
It could be best to calc the lightning, however there are many issues with this.

Firstly, we need to establish a distance using the game. We could do something like 4x4 pixels is 1m squared. Although that's awfully small, so not that, but that's my example.

Secondly, the game can run all the way up to 120fps, if your PC can handle that. If you don't play on PC, for example the Wii, DSi, and other ports are either 30fps or 60fps.

Thirdly, we can find the distance using #1 and the speed using #2 and try to calc a speed of the magical lightning.

But we have to agree on what resolution, measurement, fps, frames taken to go from Point A to Point B, and yada yada, clac talk. But it may be hard if we don't decide on which version of the game is most appropriate.
 
Dude we have falling apples move faster than Kirby that doesn't make him ********. Are you going to legitmately downgrade him to Human level for something that happens in all video games ever?
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Dude we have falling apples move faster than Kirby that doesn't make him ********. Are you going to legitmately downgrade him to Human level for something that happens in all video games ever?
And I am downgrading rather due to the fact we can safely say the only things making him MHS aren't even MHS, We can't even calc the lightning without getting units of measurement in order for the game. He's likely as fast or faster than what he's fighting, which makes the most sense when it comes to his speed.

Also the OP that made the profile poorly understands the game, it seems.
 
We can. Literally, in all of fiction, normal stuff moves normally even in fight scene with much faster character UNLESS we are in a scene where the author want to portray how fast a certain character is by having everything move in slow motion. But it hardly ever happen. And I frankly don't quite get what you are trying to convey in the second part of your message.
 
I am becoming confused and we are getting further and further off topic.

I suggest we wait for input and hope someone can calculate the fastest feats of said character
 
Let's see if we can find other feats not similar to lightining. Dodging? Other types of combat or reaction speeds? Suggestions please.
 
I am not familiar with the game, and as such am uncertain about whether or not the lightning behaves like real lightning.

However, regarding the OAA, Marvel's omniverse was retconned into a lesser structure in-story.

Also, we tend to use "word of god" if it is clarifying, and not explicitly contradicting what has been shown.
 
I suppose, although it is uncertain if he will reply, or say anything useful.
 
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