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CAPE Calcs and Storm Feats (Staff only)

Oh.

Possibly. The revisions could potentially be put off for the new Environmental Damage discussions so we don't have two storm feat related revisions happening at the same time, since these are finally being looked at.

But yeah. A new thread would be fine if this thread is insufficient for whatever reason, I guess it is starting to get sorta crowded.
 
DontTalkDT has agreed to modify the page based on the above discussion.
 
We aren't really changing standards for creating or moving clouds, the only thing is like vaporizing or freezing clouds; which very few characters are rated based on said feats iirc. But there may be some cloud creation feats that assumed kinetic energy value might be what's effected.
 
We are indeed changing our standards.

Earlier it was "KE is the default for storm creation" while now it's "CAPE is the default assumption and KE needs to be proven".
 
Maybe a highlight is needed. This does affect a crapton of profiles and would result in many revisions. Yet, many people don't know this thing exists.
 
Of course there are feats with legitimately proven kinetic energy, prime example at the top of my head is Wario's feat. If cloud feats are also caused with the shock wave of strikes among other things, that's also legit kinetic energy; as is someone moving a cloud via sneezing, burping, farting, or breathing. Telekinesis users such as the ones seen in Star Wars or StarCraft, I'm also positive are still Kinetic energy. But things such as the Fire Emblem Rex Bolt calc use CAPE for sure. Not sure about Shovel Knight though, that might need to be redone.

I agree with highlighting this though.
 
RWBY uses KE, but it's fine because there is evidence for that (Discussed it with Kep when the feat was recalced)
 
It's not 100% yes or no.

CAPE is the basic assumption.

If you have evidence that justifies KE, then use KE.
 
I'm pretty sure Emrys is going to get hit by this.

I can't think of anyone else offhand that I know much about, though.
 
Just take into account just because a storm extent from one point to another do not means its moving, real life storms do that and aren't moving they are forming cells, and if it the sky is clear in one scene and in the next one is cloudy do not assume it moved from outside the horizont when is much more factible it just formed above.

That would be the standard assumption, characters that moved (eye, not dissipating) the clouds/fog/storms via shear power (using its wings to to launch an air blast, causing a shockwave) will remain as they are (except of course that the standard thickness for storms changed to at least 8 km to at most 11.8 km).
 
As Anton says. Clouds are taking vapor from the sky and thus should not default to KE. If KE can be proven, then yes, by all means it should be used, but CAPE is a safer assumption and can be used with little proof aside from "there was a storm".

Also, to address the idea that "longstanding = correctness"- it does not and never has. That is all from me for now.
 
Hurricane energies more fall into the new Environmental Destruction pages than here, I believe.
 
Sound interesting but I don't see any equation, it could be useful tho.

@Bambu, I think that both storms and hurracanes fall into Enviromental Destruction (depending of the case), they are also related to weather stuff.
 
I know they do, was more saying hurricanes don't fall into the normal category of storms.
 
Hurricanes are storms, though.

Edit: Regarding equations. They explain how condensation is a good measurement for the total hurricanes energy and how much water condenses in a hurricane on average (and technically over a certain area).


That aside, should CAPE be used if it is lower than condensation? Clouds gonna come from somewhere after all...
 
Condentation is the method by default, but just in theory, the more unestable the storm is, the higher value is CAPE compared to enthalpy of creation.
 
Just to clarify, Environmental Destruction is only in regards to the applicatio of a feat, rather than the feat's calculation.

Basically, a character who can summon a Tier 6 storm through an ability unrelated to their other powers shouldn't be able to use that sort of energy to harm their opponents in the conventional, direct sense without good reason.

It doesn't apply just to weather, too, it applies to any power that just covers a large area with destruction, but isn't related to their capacity to actually hurt their opponents with all that energy.

Saying this as the term was brought up here, and I think the two discussions are unrelated.
 
Ice Manipulators ususally have good justification for their feats scaling to their other powers.

It's mostly for those who have one storm/environmental ability (Magnus Chase, Witcher characters) that bloats their other statistics if taken seriously for conventional AP.

Case by Case. If you can give good justifications for the scaling to AP/Dura, good on you. However it tells you that this is not always the case, and evidence must be supplied.
 
It affects only those with Weather Manipulation, the freezing calcs are not affected by this (Although they may be affected by the Enviromental Destruction but that is apart as Dargoo said). Several current calcs assumed they moved a storm beyond the horizont to that specific point when good it could have been just created in the sky.
 
Creating directly an storm would give it automatically weather manipulation, unless is created in a indirect way (like DB characters).
 
All Might has weather manip because his attack specifically pulled in a storm. No, he does not have a power that directly causes him to create weather, but he can manipulate it in some way.

not that weather manipulation is normally useful but still
 
"Creating directly an storm would give it automatically weather manipulation, unless is created in a indirect way (like DB characters). "

Pretty sure All Might falls under this category
 
Welp, that was more like an opinion, but I wouldn't give someone powers that he not directly control (we do not rate DB characters with wm nor those that can stop the heart with tk with death manipulation).
 
I dunno the specifics but this really isn't the place to debate the powers on a My Hero Academia page. If anything I'd ask Therefir.
 
No, that character's perform isn't different that All Might's feat; only thing it could change is the thickness of the storm since now we use 8 km as low-end and 11.8 km as high-end.
 
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