Candice downgrade

[Dr.Fix]

Candice's heiligpfeil is 5 Gigajoules. Five Gigajoules convers to 1.19 tons which translates to an AP of building level+. Her current standing is Island level+ but that is based off of an unsubstantiated scaling to other Sternritters (There is never a comparison made in fight or in dialogue between her, nanana, and cang du) and should be thrown out for the proof in the manga.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

One word: Powerscaling

 

[Dr.Fix]

That's what I'm saying, she doesn't scale to them.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No, she DOES scale to them through powerscaling. There's nothing wrong with her current rating

 

[Dr.Fix]

"The logic behind powerscaling works much that of transitive relation. In which if A > B and B > C, then A > C.

So if Character A is stronger than Character B, and Character B is stronger than Character C, then logically, Character A is also stronger than Character C.

Another way powerscaling works is through attributing feats a character performs to other characters who are equal or greater than that character as well. . . "

That's how powerscalign works. In this case, it would require Candice to be shown or stated to be > someone else, which she is not.

 

[Schnee_One]

Incorrect, she doesn't need to be > someone, she needs to have fought on par with or comparable too.

 

[Dr.Fix]

"Although a misuse or over extrapolation of powerscaling can lead to grossly inaccurate ratings, a logical and moderate use can be both helpful and essential to properly determining one's power."

You have to use it approipately

 

[Schnee_One]

And it's used appropriately here.

 

[Dr.Fix]

@gargoyle, you are right, the same principle applies though.


Good example of Power scaling:

• Alternatively if Character A has a City level feat, Character B overpowered Character A and Character C overpowered Character B. Then it is safe to assess that Character C has City level AP as well.

Bad Example of Power scaling:

• Character A is City level, and Character B was able to survive attacks from or harm Character A. However Character A was holding back, restricting themselves, not putting their all into their attacks or was in a weakened state during the fight, then it is not safe to asses that Character B has City level AP or durability. As this would clearly indicate that the two do not have comparable power and that one is much superior to the other.

Ie what happened with Ichigo

 

[Schnee_One]

And? Well aware.

 

[Dr.Fix]

And? Well aware.

Glad you agree she needs to be downgraded.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There is nothing wrong with her current tier. Its basic powerscaling

 

[Schnee_One]

And? Well aware.

Glad you agree she needs to be downgraded.

I don't.................

 

[Dr.Fix]

You're not making any sense. If you understand power scaling as it is clealry defined on this site than you understand Candice does not meet the criteria.

 

[Schnee_One]

She does tho...

The one not making sense is you, I genuinely don't get what you're saying...

 

[Dr.Fix]

I genuinely do not understand what you are saying, but then you aren't saying much besides you do not agree and powerscaling. Could you explain what you think power scaling is and your reasoning please?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Candice is Island level+ by powerscaling to the other Sternritters

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Dr.

Dud Candice fight an island fighter?

No? Downgrade.

Yes?

Fine as gargoyle and weekly said.

 

[Dr.Fix]

See what I asked gargoyle please. You're not actually understanding and/or reading anything I've said if you're still going by that.

 

[Schnee_One]

What the hell are you even saying at this point and why are you bribing it on my wall?

 

[Dr.Fix]

Dr.
Dud Candice fight an island fighter?

No? Downgrade.

Yes?


Fine as gargoyle and weekly said.

Your summation is accruate but not your conclusion:

Candice did NOT fight an Island level fighter at full strength

Downgrade? Yes

Agreeance with Gargoyle and weekly? No, for some reason they hold an opposite opinion which they haven't cited. Since they just keep citing Power scaling it goes back to what I keep explaining that she does not fit the criteria and must be downgraded in the abscence of any other evidence.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

She didnt HAVE to fight someone who is Island level, she is comperable in power to people who can. Thats how powerscaling works

 

[Schnee_One]

Didn't cite....

Literally on the page

 

[Dr.Fix]

Question going forward, are either of you well versed in Bleach?

Or

Are you simply going off of what someone placed on Candice's wiki (but didn't cite from the source)?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Candice is one of the Female Sternritters and is considered to be comparable to her allies.

There is no reason that Candice should be MASSIVELY weaker then her allies.

Heck the other Sternritters dodged Candice's attack which means it can hurt them.

 

[Schnee_One]

Question going forward, are either of you well versed in Bleach?

Or

Are you simply going off of what someone placed on Candice's wiki (but didn't cite from the source)?

I'm fully versed in Bleach. Why?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Alright look I'm not well versed in Bleach but here is some things that should be explained.

Now this type of powerscaling can work but only in the right cases.

1. Said Person being stated comparable to the group.

2. Said individual doesn't possess any special skill/hax that would make them comparable to the others on the danger scale.

3. Said individual isn't regarded as weak compared to their group (though this is basically the same as 1)

Now, from my knowledge Candice has no hax and she is never talked down to by the others in her group.

So she should at least scale to the lower ones feats otherwise why would she be around them?. Now I would be in agreement with a downgrade if she was considered weak by the others in her group or stated to not be comparable to them.

I don't see any real harm in her rating as it is.

But again my bleach knowledge is low so if she is regarded as weak compared to the others then she should be switched to Unknown.

 

[Dr.Fix]

Thank you lord griffin, that summizes what I've been trying to say rather well. As for the citation you're looking for, I'm not home and don't have the volumes on hand, but around chap 596 Candice is called out as weaker than them (Them being Liltotto and Mennas) and again a few chapters later right before the Holy Selection to include being weaker than Gigi

 

[Dr.Fix]

Cont'd

From Volume 66


Òü®ÒüäÒüñÒééÒüôÒüäÒüñÒééµâàÒüæÒü¡Òâ╝Òü¬ ÒüºÒéé Õ«ƒÕèøþÜäÒü½Òü»ÒüéÒüƒÒüùÚüöÒüïÒéïÒü«Òü»ÕªÑÕ¢ôÒüáÒü¿µÇØÒüåÒü«Òâ╗Òâ╗Òâ╗
ÒüØÒéîÒééÒüØÒâ╝ÒüáÒü¬

Translation: Liltotto calls Candice and others pathetic and Meninas cites its understandable since both she and Lil are superior.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Liltotto saying that Candice is weaker than her is irrelevant since she is power-scaled to Cang Du and Nana. All that it mean is Liltotto and Giselle > her. That scan you're talking about with Meninas has them talking about their abilities as opposed to the one where Lilotto says she and Giselle are stronger. Even then she goes on to say that it would hurt to lose them meaning Candice isn't that much weaker. As LordGriffin said, if she were stronger why would they need a weaker member?

Also Liltotto stating that Bazz-B couldn't stop them with just a single attack. To which Candice tanked and got up in the same chapter and as we know in Bleach reiatsu = AP and Durability. So if Candice could take an attack from Bazz-B who is Island level+, she'll be Island level+ AP and Durability.

Finally, regarding as to why she power-scales to Cang Du and Nana is that Nana, despite having zero fight was able to survive Yammato's flames (albiet Bazz-B migated it) and as I pointed about the reiatsu thing he would be island level+ (possibly with "At most") and Bazz-B killed him with the same attack he used on Candice who tanked it. The same thing with Cang Du where Bazz-B rekt Toshiro with the same attack he used on Candice and Cang Du being one-shotted by Toshiro despite being gravely injured. So she should at least be comparable or even slightly stronger then both of them.

All of this is more than enough justification to keep her at that level.

 

[Damage3245]

Aside from all (or most) of the Sternritter being said to have Captain-level Reiatsu, when is Candice directly compared to the other Sternritter and stated that she is as powerful as them?

> Also Liltotto stating that Bazz-B couldn't stop them with just a single attack. To which Candice tanked and got up in the same chapter and as we know in Bleach reiatsu = AP and Durability. So if Candice could take an attack from Bazz-B who is Island level+, she'll be Island level+ AP and Durability.

How did she tank it? Didn't the attack go straight through her?

 

[LordAizenSama]

>Cancelled out a Getsuga from casual TSIchigo

>Put her as building level roughly 100 quadrillion times weaker

 

[KuuIchigo]

Okay. Not tanked, but took it and not instantly die or get knocked out.

 

[Damage3245]

@LordAizenSama; wasn't it the other way around? Didn't a tiny, casual Getsuga from Ichigo cancel out one of her attacks?

And while building level is a bit too far of a downgrade, keeping her at island level based only on powerscaling doesn't feel right either. We know her arrows aren't her strongest attack as she has that Electrocution move, but it shows that her ordinary arrow attacks aren't as strong as Island level.

 

[LordAizenSama]

......if ichigo cancelled out her attack it also means that she cancelled out his..............

>Based only on powerscaling

Lack of feats is a reason for powerscaling not against it.

Anyway dumb thread is dumb so I'm out

 

[KuuIchigo]

It's like people forgot the concept of power-scaling. I guess we should start downgrading 90% of the wiki's profiles.

>Anyway dumb thread is dumb so I'm out

Agreed.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with WeeklyBattles, LordAizenSama, and KuuIchigo. In-story claims are considered as far less important than explicit proof that comparable characters have far higher ratings.

I will close this thread.