Can this be considered real lightning?

[Kaltias]

So, i was looking for speed feats for Enter The Gungeon and i found these things

https://enterthegungeon.gamepedia.com/Thunderclap https://enterthegungeon.gamepedia.com/The_Emperor

The former is stated to be actual lightning, the second is stated to imitate them. Both cause water to be electrocuted on contact, briefly stuns enemies upon hit and the Ammonomicon (the book that provides the information) is basically a manual with informations about everything in the Gungeon.

 

[Therefir]

But real lightnin only come from clouds right?

 

[Kaltias]

Not necessarily. Lightning bolts produced by characters can be considered actual lightning bolts if the evidence is good enough

 

[LordGriffin1000]

If it's stated to be real lightning and acts like real lightning I don't see why not but that's just me.

 

[Anonimoe7875]

If it's stated to be real lightning and acts like real lightning I don't see why not.

 

[Antoniofer]

Stunning and conduction are properties of electricity, not necesary lightning.

 

[Kaltias]

"Lightning directly produced by a character is only considered as real lightning if it has demonstrated some properties that real lightning has. Some examples are: making muscles of affected beings contract, having an (electro)magnetic field, being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning, flowing through conducting materials, the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis." Lightning Dodging Feats page.

And the important thing is mostly that what is an important source of lore in the game says that they are lighting bolts

 

[Antoniofer]

That description is pretty generic tho, conduction through material is from electricity, and even I can create a electromagnetic field using AC current and a coil; taser also stun a makes muscles contract. Some properties more particluar from lightnings are producing a little shockwave enought to rupture the eardrum, temperatures of at least 28000 K enought to vaporizise the blood instantly, and are instantaneous.

 

[Kaltias]

Dunno about the shockwave, but they produce a flash of light when shoot (which is also a thing that real lightning bolts do) and the energy is also probably in the same ballpark because the weapon is 8-C which iirc is the same tier as the real lightning bolts

 

[Antoniofer]

Looking at the description more it say it fire balls, and the other one fires bullets conected by electricity, no ligtning works in that way; the also show the shot speed, whose in this case show that the speed of the first weapon is inferior to the ones with quantificable speed, like m1911 and magnum.

 

[Kaltias]

Ok, i'll concede. Which is the speed that we use for electricity?

 

[Antoniofer]

It could vary with intensity of current/voltage, the one that Lina calculed has a result of Mach 1.6 iirc, it was from a tesla coil.

 

[Kaltias]

So, I checked and not only ball lightning is indeed a thing, but it being slower than the Magnum doesn't really disprove anything seeing how said Magnum is 9-A to 8-C. Which means that it's nothing like a real life Magnum

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I side w/Kal here. If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, behaves like a duck, what is it? A duck. Aflac.

 

[Kaltias]

This comment made my day. Thanks cal

 

[ALRF]

^^ Cal made the best reply, i need a MHS+ duck right now.

In all seriousness, i agree with Karu and Cal on here

 

[Antoniofer]

... People can't just consider anything that has sparks and makes it as fast as lightning for no reasons. Seeing that page, it seems that lightning balls in the nature are so uncommon that there's no footage nor research about it, there nothing that can be used from it, even wirnesses where able to catch their views in it, so it shouldn't be that fast.

 

[Kaltias]

People have witnessed actual lightning bolts too...

And it's far from "for no reasons"

 

[Kaltias]

To recap, this weapon is:

1) Literally stated to be made using an actual lightning bolt

2) Electrocute conducting material like water on contact

3) Has a similar energy output to an actual lightning bolt

4) Briefly stuns people on contact

5) Makes a flash of light (property of actual lightning)

 

[Antoniofer]

Let me see: gradually descending, at least 1 s before vanishing, horizontal motion, even rotational, to a few meters per second. Yep, doesn't sound as the typical lightning strike.

Also, the last month has been people wanted to compare electricity with lightning, cuz any electric signal moves at that speed...

 

[Kaltias]

Okay? The Thunderclap is still stated to be made using a regular lightning.

Well, you know, lightning is electricity. They do share properties. And i'm not saying "it's electricity, so it's lightning". I'm saying "it's electricity that it's stated to be lightning, which reinforce the idea of it being a lightning"

 

[Antoniofer]

Using lightning's energy to create a weapon doesn't give it the speed of a lightning, otherwise anything that has the output of a lightning (8-C) would have MHS+ in whatever speed.

Also, unrelated, but I doubt that people that tanks lightning strikes are 8-C, lightning doesn't cause that destruction and even people is able to survive those strikes, futhermore, lightning only is in contact with a person for to little to dissipated all the energy in it.

 

[Kaltias]

No? That's not how it works and it isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that the most logical assumption is that the weapon specifically stated to contain a lightning is likely firing an actual lightning when it fires electricity.

Lightning indeed have 8-C energy, it's just dissipated trough the air. And the characters who are affected by those lightnings are 8-C by virtue of 8-C feats.

 

[Kaltias]

Bumping for more input

 

[Kaltias]

Bump

 

[Kaltias]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

A question:

Isn't the reason why natural lightning is swifter than the currents in real world man-made electrical devices, such as tazers, simply due to the far greater voltage and energy?

If so, shouldn't attacks using electrons that are at least as powerful as natural lightning be considered to have a similar speed, for simplicity's sake?

 

[Kaltias]

I don't know. But i think that the speed of a lightning is due the way it's produced, not the energy behind it

I don't think that that any lightning with 8-C or above energy should be considered MHS+ unless there is more evidence though.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Perhaps an easier way to figure this out is that...

• Cloud-to-ground lightning, in general, produces Large Building level yield in terms of energy, thus any electrical attack that are produced by characters who are above Large Building level in terms of AP should have the speed of their lightning attacks bumped up to actual lightning speed, because...
  • Said character should be able to generate more energy with his/her electricity in comparison to said cloud-to-ground lightning?

 

[Antvasima]

@Lina Shields

I suppose that may be reasonable.

I have started a new thread here for further discussion about this topic:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/966586

Would you be interested in asking the other calc group members to participate, so we can reach a conclusion for the wiki as a whole?

 

[Lina_Shields]

Will reply to the thread that you have made. Hopefully, others will drop soon.

I will ask the other calc group members soon.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help. After you reach a conclusion, we may be able to make an addition to the Lightning Dodging Feats page.

 

[Kaltias]

So i can use this as a legit lightning or not?

 

[Antvasima]

Given that we have allowed other similar instances to be considered as lightning, I think so yes. At least until we change our regulations.