Can higher dimmensionnal being/power can affect NEP 2 and Transduality type 2

[Regidian]

Elizhaa have tell me this it is true? I have see many thread that being an higher dimmensionnal being not let you affect NEP 2 but well prefer to ask.
(Same question for an 1-A+ ability and if the NEP type 2/Transduality type 2 are over concept type 2 (+ the NEP 2 of this being is more 'fundamental?" than an other NEP 2 from the same verse)


"NEP/Transduality Type 2 would still be limited by higher-dimensionality. Higher-dimensional/higher transcendent beings or abilities should have not an issue affecting them."

 

[Elizhaa]

I would argue yes. Currently, it should be the current standards at least NEP Type 2 when discussed in the original thread is here. I am fairly sure that Transduality Type 2 follows a similar logic.
Topics being discussed in threads like vs thread doesn't mean they are accurate.

 

[Regidian]

I would argue yes. Currently, it should be the current standards at least NEP Type 2 when discussed in the original thread is here. I am fairly sure that Transduality Type 2 a similar logic.
What is being discussed in threads like vs thread doesn't mean it is accurate.

I have see staff talk about it it's why i ask.

Like that quote by a staff

"A 3-D character is higher dimensional that a type 2 NEP, but we can't interact with them. There's probably an argument for 0 and 1-A due to how being beyond everything is not being anything, but that's up to the verse."

 

[Lapsad]

.

 

[Elizhaa]

A 3-D character is higher dimensional that a type 2 NEP, but we can't interact with them.

I don't know the context. What the dimensionality of the type 2 NEP character to the 3-D's?

There's probably an argument for 0 and 1-A due to how being beyond everything is not being anything, but that's up to the verse.

I don't know the full context; it sounds like the statement was made before the tiering revisions. 0 and 1-A don't necessarily exist beyond most things like they use to do before the tiering system revision that happened in 2019. I would argue my earlier statements still apply.

 

[Regidian]

I don't know the context. What the dimensionality of the type 2 NEP character to the 3-D's?

I don't know the full context; it sounds like the statement was made before the tiering revisions. 0 and 1-A don't necessarily exist beyond most things like they use to do before the tiering revision. I would argue my earlier statements still apply.

It was made in November 2020 so after the tiering revision

The context was praticaly the same than here, an user have asked if an higher dimmensionnal existence can affect NEP type 2 without have show to be able.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Why would they be able to affect something that doesn't even exist in the first place? If they have no feats, they can't do shit to it. That's like saying a higher dimensional with no feats of affecting abstracts can affect them now.

 

[Elizhaa]

I mean the current standard on NEP Type 2 didn't change in a CRT from what I know so I would argue what I said is more correct just like the case of Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 being accepted to affect Acausal Type 5 being in this thread.

Why would they be able to affect something that doesn't even exist in the first place? If they have no feats, they can't do shit to it. That's like saying a higher dimensional with no feats of affecting abstracts can affect them now.

Because they would exist in a higher-dimensional concept, from what I recalled (speaking of non-tier 1-A and up, to be exact).

 

[OriginFox]

I mean the current standard on NEP Type 2 didn't change in a CRT from what I know so I would argue what I said is more correct just like the case of Conceptual Manipulation Type 2 being accepted to affect Acausal Type 5 being in this thread.

Because they would exist in a higher-dimensional concept, from what I recalled (speaking of non-tier 1-A and up, to be exact).

But NEP2 is literally don't even have a concept to begin with so why would that matter?

 

[Rikimarox2]

I don't get it, why the hell would that matter? Isn't that like saying a Type 2 concept manip can affect a NEP2 that was erased by a type 3 concept manip?

The character doesn't have a concept to begin with, so it literally doesn't matter if they exist in a higher plane.

 

[Elizhaa]

But NEP2 is literally don't even have a concept to begin with so why would that matter?

In short, no in their current dimensionality/transcendence but in higher-dimensionality/transcendence as they do as stated via standard. In the old definition of Type 2 NEP which was changed, they basically didn't as they used to not exist beyond all conceptual frameworks.

 

[Regidian]

In short, no in their current dimensionality/transcendence but in higher-dimensionality/transcendence as they do as stated via standard. In the old definition of Type 2 NEP which was changed, they basically didn't as they used to not exist beyond all conceptual frameworks.

i think it's weird, we are 3D we can't touch thing that are non existant in 2D, concept are differiencie by their type (1,2,3,4) not by their dimmensionnality, it's like tell someone that don't have the concept of death in 3D, will have it in 4D, will be the same thing with acausality type 5( they will just transcend the causality of their dimmensionnality witht his logic) etc if it's like that for the NEP2 it should for all thing that related to a concept

 

[Rikimarox2]

In short, no in their current dimensionality/transcendence but in higher-dimensionality/transcendence as they do as stated via standard. In the old definition of Type 2 NEP which was changed, they basically didn't as they used to not exist beyond all conceptual frameworks.

Refer to what I said above, isn't that like literally saying a Type 2 concept manip can affect NEP2 if said being was deleted by type 3 concept manip?

 

[Elizhaa]

i think it's weird, we are 3D we can't touch thing that are non existant in 2D; concept are differiencie by their type (1,2,3,4) not by their dimmensionnality

Technically, it is via both in the wiki; the first case is only to check for type and the latter case is usually accepted as a for,higher-D hax.

it's like tell someone that don't have the concept of death in 3D, will have it in 4D

I mean it would be like NEP Type 2 doesn't have a concept in 4-D spce but in respect to a higher-dimension like 5-D, they do, for example.

 

[Elizhaa]

Refer to what I said above, isn't that like literally saying a Type 2 concept manip can affect NEP2 if said being was deleted by type 3 concept manip?

Technically, this point is not thread's main topic.

 

[Regidian]

Technically, it is via both in the wiki; the first case is only to check for type and the latter case is usually accepted as a for,higher-D hax.


I mean it would be like NEP Type 2 doesn't have a concept in 4-D spce but in respect to a higher-dimension like 5-D, they do, for example.

but for how far i remember none of the two work like that, if you don't have a concept of death as a 5D you still wouldn't for 26D

 

[Elizhaa]

but for how far i remember none of the two work like that, if you don't have a concept of death as a 5D you still wouldn't for 26D

I mean this not a proper example of the NEP Type 2's case that I described.

 

[Regidian]

I mean this not a proper example of the NEP Type 2's case that I described.

why you tell that if a being is NEP 2 as a 5D being, a higher dimmensionnal being can still agffect t because she will still have her concept of being in that dimmension, and here i tell you that if we never have do like that for all the concept related think (like not concept of death)

 

[Elizhaa]

The case is not related; not having a concept of death without proper context is at best Immortality type 5. I want the thread to stay on topic.

 

[Regidian]

The case is not related; not having a concept of death without proper context is at best Immortality type 5.

i don't have tell the contrary, but higher dimmensionnal being can't kill an type 5 if they don't have thing that bypass and this being that don't have concept of death in his dimmensionnality will not have a concept of death in a higher dimmension than him too, i have never see someone made the argument that because he have 5D death manip he could kill a 3D without concept of death etc

 

[Elizhaa]

I mean the concept of the character would still exist in a higher-reality so the higher-dimensional abilities killing the other characters aren't possible. Characters of Tranduality Type 2 can be stomp by more transcendental characters, for example. Like said, I want to remain on the topic so you can make a new thread if you wish to go more in-depth on the other topic,

 

[Regidian]

I mean the concept of the character would still exist in a higher-reality so the higher-dimensional abilities killing the other characters aren't possible. Characters of Tranduality Type 2 can be stomp by more transcendental characters, for example. Like said, I want to remain on the topic so you can make a new thread if you wish to go more in-depth on the other topic,

i still wait for the other to answer about the NEP think, since most of the user think like me i think, so well if the staff are telling that what you tell is true then we need to tell it in the NEP profile that beong a higher D being is enough to affect a NEP 2, (transcendental type 3 and 4 being able to stomp type 2 is normal for me) but i still don't think that a being of higher dimmeension can affect a NEP 2 just because he's from a higher dimmension (the only one that i could accept it NEP type 2 from type 2 concept being able to affect NEP2 from type 3 etc) but not that a 6D being can affect a NEP2 that is 3D for example.

 

[Elizhaa]

Unless change, I mean the standard is the standard. Sure, it sounds fine if you want more inputs.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Question, wouldn't it be something like. They aren't made up of dimensional axi but something different entirely but this different substance is not greater than dimensions in a transcendental way, but equal?

Hopefully that makes sense...

 

[Regidian]

Question, wouldn't it be something like. They aren't made up of dimensional axi but something different entirely but this different substance is not greater than dimensions in a transcendental way, but equal?

Hopefully that makes sense...

i don't understand personnaly sorry

 

[Everything12]

Pretty sure an Outerversal power should at least be able to affect a mere Higher-Dimensional NEP Type 2, as compared to the Outerversal power the NEP would be mere fiction, the lack of Concepts should be Irrelevant for so great a difference in existence. It would honestly be an NLF to argue lacking Type 2 Concepts matters at all to a being who messes with Type 1 Concepts.

 

[Regidian]

Pretty sure an Outerversal power should at least be able to affect a mere Higher-Dimensional NEP Type 2, as compared to the Outerversal power the NEP would be mere fiction, the lack of Concepts should be Irrelevant for so great a difference in existence.

for outerversal maybie, but for the other? ( low1-C high-1-B)

 

[Elizhaa]

Pretty sure an Outerversal power should at least be able to affect a mere Higher-Dimensional NEP Type 2, as compared to the Outerversal power the NEP would be mere fiction, the lack of Concepts should be Irrelevant for so great a difference in existence.

To be fair, the interpretation of the Outversal sounds like it is before the tiering revision changes in 2019. Though, I would agree a transcendent character have no real issue with dealing with lower-dimensional beings with those abilities, as I said earlier.

 

[Regidian]

To be fair, the interpretation of the Outversal sounds like it is before the tiering revision changes in 2019. Though, I would agree a transcendent character have no real issue with dealing with lower-dimensional beings with those abilities, as said earlier.

personnaly i don't really he would affect it (doubt he can see it if not prove it in dimmension or maybie like being 1-A and more)), a character that see a lower dimmension like a book, if the character of this lower dimmension is a NEP2, the the higher one will just don't see the lower NEP 2 since he doesn't conceptually exist in here (if neever show to see/interact with NEP2)

being from higher dimmension doesn't allow you to affect everything on the lower dimmension (like tell he can affect soul of lower being when he can't affect them in his dimmension or that he can kill high godly regen being of lower dimmension when he doesn't show him to be able to do in his dimmension etc)

 

[Regidian]

I can be okay for conceptual manip type 2 be able to affect NEP2 from type 3 concept but not for thing like 7D conceptual manip being able to affect 5D NEP2(don't know if it's understable or it is what you want tell)


For transduality type 2 being from an higher dimmension and having a higher order of the conceptuel manip (type 2 for transduality type 2 of type 3 concept by ex) should be enough


I really can't see the rest bring understandable for me

 

[Elizhaa]

Question, wouldn't it be something like. They aren't made up of dimensional axi but something different entirely but this different substance is not greater than dimensions in a transcendental way, but equal?

Hopefully that makes sense...

I think it would be like this case; the character is with NEP Type 2 or Transduality Type 2 exist beyond or outside their level of existence. But from the perspective of a higher transcendent being, the lower character would exist something like paper which they can affect without any issue.

 

[Ionliosite]

Being higher-dimensional SHOULDN'T help against Type 2 NEP. The reasoning as simple as the two being completely unrelated from each other: affecting higher dimensions means affecting something infinitely more complex than the character in question, while affecting a type 2 non-existant means affecting something that doesn't conceptually exist. The definition between both abilities are completely unrelated from one another, and thus it shouldn't be assumed being able to affect one allows the character to affect the other. The reasoning that a higher dimensional being would see the type 2 non-existant as part of a piece of paper isn't actually correct, since due to them being type 2, they conceptually don't exist within the frame of said paper - something interesting about this anology is that it'll mean that they can affect the frame the character lives on, but not the character itself, since character doesn't exist in said frame.

 

[ShivaShakti]

I'd argue no, being "higher" or "Transcendental" over an NEP Type 2 shouldn't automatically equate to you being able to react to said character, unless under specific or unique cases. The only case I can think of would be the case if you have some type of Transduality (Which extends to binaries of existence and nonexistence.)

As for Type 2 Transduality being affected by 1-A being, I would say yes. Considering Transduality Type 2, is restricted to characters below 1-A, and thus does not extend to that level.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

From what I remember

NEP type 1 can be affected via concept hax type 2

NEP type 2 u can only affect if u have proff of affecting a type 2


As far as I am aware this is how it has been on all fight u have seen where one character is type 1/2

Idk about transduality

 

[Lapsad]

Sure well i agree with lonliosite differrent between author and fiction is no matter here

 

[Elizhaa]

I am just telling what was accepted in a staff thread, regarding NEP Type 2. On Transduality Type 2, I probably want to check more. From what I know, if one wants to change a standard, one should make a thread like a CRT on it.

 

[Regidian]

- The staff thread and the change made in rapport of conceptualy framework was made because even Concept type 1 is not that or that even 1-A doesn't have it (so no rapport avec higher dimmensionnal being since that was talk after and don't see anybody accept this except you and the other guy was that talking about that)


I quote litteraly what you tell yourself


"Except there is no such thing as not having any concept in conceptual framework. Nonexistence at a conceptual level is a thing if this argument and I am not against it, but the nonexistence beyond conceptual level or conceptual framework does not exist as again even 1-A have a conceptual framework."


"My solution is changing this text: " The lack of absolutely everything, including presence on a conceptual framework of any degree" to The lack of absolutely everything to a state of nonexistence at a conceptual level "



- And even that if what you talk being the concept of non existence is NEP1 not NEP2 since their still the concept of something (and if we use my exemple of akasha/void shiki, their non existant from even type 2 concept (and their not the concept if non existence)

"I agree it is feat dependent but average Concept Manipulator(Type 1 or 2; depending on the tier) by definition have the feats and should be able to destroy something that is conceptual nonexistent as "non-existence is a concept by definition". In some case, The concept of nonexistence is Type 3 concept depending on the fiction setting."


- And if we use the definition of this wiki NEP2 is the lack of everything to a state of Nonexistence at a conceptual (so not even being the concept of Nonexistence normally), and precede or opposes the state of existence on all levels (so don't know higher dimmensionnal being who are higher level of existence could be able to affect them), and in terme of binary this would be something that is neither existence or non existance (so when you have used your exemple of being the concept of non existence their will be 0 so no NEP2)


2: Idealistic Nonexistence: The lack of absolutely everything to a state of nonexistence at a conceptual level. Such a state defies even the most basic logical principles and is unknowable in the truest form, as it is not a state at all. Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness, or any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels. In terms of binary, this would be something that is neither 1 nor 0, where 1 is existence and 0 is nonexistence.

 

[Nilverse]

Higher D can't automatically affect NEP type 2 due to the only fact that adding one more information mean nothing to something that shouldn't exist on a Conceptual plane in the first place, in the same fact that adding 10 to x number and trying to compare it to zero, you will always have nothing to compare, or with the irl comparison, you cannot interact in any way with a manga characters from your favorite BD that don't exist.

for Transduality, i think it's the same since coming from an higher dimension could mean that you apply the rule of your plane where duality is different to a lower one with a transdual characters, in itself, it should not work without proper feat since we have no proof about the fact that the higher plane's duality is something above or different than the lower

 

[Elizhaa]

Regidian, you quoted some things and texts that I had with an issue with the wording Conceptual Framework being set as a basis; it was changed to conceptual level for those reasons and others discussed.

 

[Regidian]

Regidian, you quoted some things and texts that I had with an issue with the wording Conceptual Framework being set as a basis; it was changed to conceptual level for those reasons and others discussed.

It was changed because you guy have concluded that even 1-A can't be beyond that (conceptual framework), that had nothing to do with higher dimmensionnal existence, being able to affect lower dimmensionnal being that are NEP2.

So i don't understand why you have use that as an argument for the higher D being able to affect lower D with NEP2