azontr
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As good as Ayanokouji thinks she is.
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Can a High Schooler slay a Princess?
- Thread starter Vizmer
- Start date
RoggerReggor
He/Him- 2,336
- 888
So, if Ayanokouji thinks that she's as strong as an ant, that would pretty much just make her as strong as (or should I say "as weak as") an ant?
RoggerReggor
He/Him- 2,336
- 888
Yeah, the thing is, I don't think he would think of her as an extremely weak adversary, or an extremely strong, either. In fact, Kiyotaka admittedly doesn't form his judgment upon hypothesis, and doesn't speak without certainty, in serious situations at least:
(Source: Chapter 19 from the Year 2 COTE manga)
(Using a manga scan feels illegal, so yeah
(Source: Year 2 Volume 1)
In Year 2 Volume 4, during the fight with Tsukishiro and Shiba, his immediate analysis wasn't hypothesis about Tsukishiro and Shiba's power levels, but environmental analysis, and the possibility prediction of the boat driver being a possible ally with them, or about them having a possible concealed weapon.
In fact, even after fighting them, his intuition only thought of their clear power levels (which were much lesser than his own, to the point where he was still thinking about taking any of them in a single one-shot, meaning that he still didn't clearly "overestimate" them):
(Yellow: Represents Kiyotaka's processes done purely through intuition. In all the conclusions drawn through intuition, the analysis formed doesn't put either of Tsukishiro and Shiba above him.
Green: Represents that Kiyotaka hadn't dismissed any possibilities regarding the differences in Tsukishiro and Shiba's power levels, while simultaneously having the information about the levels of at least either of them.
Light Blue: Represents that Kiyotaka was still thinking of the one-shot plan he had thought of before. Yes, Kiyotaka was actively thinking about a plan where he took one of them in a single hit, and then fight with the other. And his opinions on being able to one-shot still hadn't changed much, even after the revelation of his opponents' abilities only being better than before.)
However, I wouldn't go on outright voting Kiyotaka off these. These only prove that Kiyotaka wouldn't think of Princess as very highly even in the first glances and wouldn't form analysis which are impractical.
How strong is the Princess in deception? Like is it just plain lies? Or are they some kind of mind-hax?
(Source: Chapter 19 from the Year 2 COTE manga)
(Source: Year 2 Volume 1)
In Year 2 Volume 4, during the fight with Tsukishiro and Shiba, his immediate analysis wasn't hypothesis about Tsukishiro and Shiba's power levels, but environmental analysis, and the possibility prediction of the boat driver being a possible ally with them, or about them having a possible concealed weapon.
In fact, even after fighting them, his intuition only thought of their clear power levels (which were much lesser than his own, to the point where he was still thinking about taking any of them in a single one-shot, meaning that he still didn't clearly "overestimate" them):
(Yellow: Represents Kiyotaka's processes done purely through intuition. In all the conclusions drawn through intuition, the analysis formed doesn't put either of Tsukishiro and Shiba above him.
Green: Represents that Kiyotaka hadn't dismissed any possibilities regarding the differences in Tsukishiro and Shiba's power levels, while simultaneously having the information about the levels of at least either of them.
Light Blue: Represents that Kiyotaka was still thinking of the one-shot plan he had thought of before. Yes, Kiyotaka was actively thinking about a plan where he took one of them in a single hit, and then fight with the other. And his opinions on being able to one-shot still hadn't changed much, even after the revelation of his opponents' abilities only being better than before.)
However, I wouldn't go on outright voting Kiyotaka off these. These only prove that Kiyotaka wouldn't think of Princess as very highly even in the first glances and wouldn't form analysis which are impractical.
How strong is the Princess in deception? Like is it just plain lies? Or are they some kind of mind-hax?
azontr
Any/All- 41,133
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Nothing she says is technically a lie, because she believes every word. The only character who will outright lie to you is The Narrator, but the Princess, initially, believes she is just a poor princess trapped in a basement and only realizes she is meant to end the world when explicitly told.
Ayano may be led to believe she's lied to him if he thinks she's harmless but suddenly she pulls out a katana from her ass and starts showing the greatest swordsmanship skills in the galaxy, but that'd just be her unique subjective reality at work.
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Depends on the perceiver.
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Bump
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Tbf the SBA does address this
Yes but well, there are issues with that. As the Narrator states
The Long Quiet's main advantage when going against the Princess is that he was honestly just weird. He had a rather extreme ignorance of the outside world and was overall very different from a normal person. It's why that Narrator killed their real self, because they would just accidentally repower the Shifting Mound if he was still alive when the avatars awakened from the construct.
So in this case Ayanokouji can view her as weak as an ant, but if he thinks "What if she can do X or Y" she'd permanently gain those traits.
The main issue is that you'd need someone to make a judgment on the Princess and then never at any point stray from that initial judgement. Which is hard, since the Princess seemingly has awareness of her power since she can say things that can influence you like "Do you think this could have really killed me?".
This is even worse in the scenario the OP presented because if Ayanokouji knows that this person threatens the world, he would rationally try to determine what aspects she has that could do so. Is she incredibly intelligent? Charismatic? A great fighter? Has good connections? All of them?
In the end, I think characters like Ayanokouji have a harder time fighting the Princess than someone more dumb/brutal as a fighter, since him trying to analyze her and determine what she can do only makes it vastly more likely that he just keeps giving her powers and abilities to the point where she becomes unbeatable.
Anyways rant over, I feel like the plot and the information analysis of the character would make it likely that the Princess' Subjective Reality keeps her in the fight. After which its just a steadily downward slope until he gets beaten out.
RoggerReggor
He/Him- 2,336
- 888
True, this matchup is much more interesting than I thought out it could go.
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Btw, If Koji were to hit, Wouldn't she explode??
The 8x gap means it's a insta K.O, The difference here would be more than 40x
She won't have the opportunity to say anything if Koji hits her in the head or body (no lungs, no nothing to help her talk)
She would die on the spot, No?
Just thought of it now
The 8x gap means it's a insta K.O, The difference here would be more than 40x
She won't have the opportunity to say anything if Koji hits her in the head or body (no lungs, no nothing to help her talk)
She would die on the spot, No?
Just thought of it now
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,666
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She doesn't have any concrete stats, so unless Koji goes in with the idea that he's gonna hit her once and she'd explode, and never questions it, that won't happen.
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Her highest stat is 9-C (baseline), Koji will not see a chained frail looking princess as a threat to make her greater than him given he thinks logically (assuming he does not start questioning his sanity with the narrator lol)
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She won't necessarily look frail. She'll look like however he expects her to look. The fact that the narrator says she'll destroy the world if he doesn't kill her yet also tries to convince him that she's weak can cause some paranoia.
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Koji won't judge until he sees for himself, It's OOC for him to make assumptions without any basis
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,666
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Honestly him not jumping to conclusions and considering all possible outcomes is worse for him.
Since again, even just entertaining the possibility that she has an ability makes it real.
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Pretty sure Zefra has said smth about that, He needs to really believe in 1 of the things he says
Thinking about several options with uncertaintly will not active her powers (or so Zefra said)
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RoggerReggor
He/Him- 2,336
- 888
I am voting inconclusive.
Yes, it's obvious that a single intrusive thought from Ayanokouji can lead to his death, but after he has Information Analysis performed on her, it's like just bad to assume that he would actually think like that.
He would be able to deduce that the voices inside his head are fake ones through seeing contradiction between things.
But either way, that's assuming he does. Inconclusive is the best option here, I really see it going in both ways.
Yes, it's obvious that a single intrusive thought from Ayanokouji can lead to his death, but after he has Information Analysis performed on her, it's like just bad to assume that he would actually think like that.
He would be able to deduce that the voices inside his head are fake ones through seeing contradiction between things.
But either way, that's assuming he does. Inconclusive is the best option here, I really see it going in both ways.
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Zefra's wrong. Uncertainly can drastically increase the Princess's strength.
We see this when playing from the Princess's POV in one of the routes: The Opportunist being uncertain about her power allowed her to completely overpower him, despite being far weaker normally.
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It depends on what you mean for "uncertainly". I don't remember all the route of the game but usually when the mc loses is because he leaves open the possibility of him losing and believes it to a degree, like when she attacks her geniuely thinking she might hide a blade.
My point was mainly when X thinks both "she might be weak" and "she might be strong" without one belief surpassing the other. Is there an instance in the game where this happens?
Also the example you made happens because of a voice (who **** up most of the time), Ayanokouji won't have any silly voice keep ruining his run, ngl.
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Not her highest she is compared to a sledgehammer and she get stronger with each blow.
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a sledgehammer does not reach 12 KJ, she gets one shotted before she gets stronger
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and?
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Highly unlikely because it's not like koji is actively thinking he'd turn someone into a mist of blood through a single punch.
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No man, in this wiki the rules are that 8x gap is a K.O whereas 12x (iirc) gap your head explodes
Koji here has more than 40x AP advantage
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well the point is The Princess would just be passively amped to his level if Koji even has the slightest doubt. The whole point was that even if you're super confident but even have a single modicum of doubt she'd grow stronger. Like when in the Apotheosis they just randomly thought something on the lines of "what if I made her big" then tried to counteract that thought by trying to think her small but it just didn't work.
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Ok I misremembered some of details but it's still the same premise
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I think we already discussed that she was on her varies tier, given zefra's statement if he is doubtful by saying stuff like "is she stronger" or "Weaker" will trigger her subjective reality, not to mention that she is aware of her abilities like Qawsedf234 said.
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Correct me if I am wrong, wouldn't her fighting Koji will put the on wall tier range("The Adversary") above the hero who is also wall level?
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The base princess could technically go above any of the princesses so going above isnt a problem. The subjective reality stuff currently has an upper limit of 2-A.
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Oh I see, I see
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