Can a Chain Chomp's composition be assumed & that assumption used for most or any Mario game?

[Imaginym]

https://www.mariowiki.com/Chain_Chomp#Paper_Mario_series_2

"It's a Chomp. You've heard about Chomps before, I'm sure. Max HP: 4, Attack Power: 3, Defense Power: 3 They're made of such hard stuff that most of your attacks won't even faze them. I heard a rumor that the Chomps are a little peeved at Tutankoopa because he works them so hard." "That's a Chain-Chomp. I'd hate to get chomped by those teeth. They look nasty. Max HP is 7, Attack is 6, and Defense is 5. Its body is hard, so most attacks won't do much. Plus, you can't damage it with fire and ice attacks. You can freeze it, though. Luckily, it has low HP, so you could take it down with a special move or an item. Chomp-Chomps are like, so super-pumped all the time. Don't they ever get tired?" Perhaps most relevantly: "That snarling, tethered iron ball is a Chain Chomp... Max HP is 4, Attack is 1, Defense is 4. Even flames can't hurt this beast... Its strong Defense protects it from most attacks. Try using items and Pixls..." https://www.mariowiki.com/Chain_Chomp#Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl "A black, spherical character thought to be made of some metal, such as iron. Although usually tethered down with a chain, Chain Chomps will eagerly chomp at passersby, inflicting major damage. In Super Mario 64, a Chain Chomp appears in the first level. It cannot be defeated, but you can daze it temporarily by throwing bombs at it." PAL Description

"An iron ball with a face, complete with shiny white teeth, that shows up fairly often in the Mario series. They're impossible to tame, so they're almost always chained to a post, and this game's no exception. Seriously, don't go anywhere near them unless you want to end up a Chomp's dinner." (Description from Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U)


With all that in mind, eyes aside, would it be possible to assume the Chain Chomp is made mostly of iron, its teeth possibly excluded? Enamel could be a possibility for the teeth. If so, determine hollowness, & we may be able to find weight, no?

So if the Chain Chomp gets a literally-made-of-iron-assumption-weight applicable to Chain Chomps in most/any/all Mario games....

Ergo, if we found the Chain Comp's mass, wouldn't that be a good scaling point for VERY low tier Mario characters?

 

[Vrokorta]

This makes sense to me, guess we'll wait for more input.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It would be good scaling to low tier Mario characters, though I did calc King Bills to be 8-B.

The Chain Chomp in SM64 does have a casual wall to small building level feat via pulverizing those iron bars containing the Power Star.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Does this includes the Goombas & Koopas? Because good lord those 10-C to 8-C stats.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Koopas, maybe, given the durability of their shells. Definitely no to Goombas. Chain Chomps one shot them.

Koopa shells have a 4-C feat via being able to one-shot the Angry Sun ovo

 

[Imaginym]

Well, actually, I had been wondering about Chain Chomps because there's actually 11 other species that have combatted them, thanks to Mario Party 3's Duel Mode.

https://www.mariowiki.com/Mario_Party_3#Duel_Mode_Partners (It may also be worth noting that the Chain Chomps seen in Duel Mode generally seem to be smaller than the one from Super Mario 64.)

Sadly for the Goomba, it can only survive a Chain Chomp's regular attack while under the effects of a Power-Up Space, which means its stats (Attack, HP & Salary cost) are doubled. (Default Goomba is 2ATK, 1HP, 2 Salary, Default Chomp is 1ATK, 2HP, 6 Salary.)

If we went by Duel Mode, it would suggest most of those species can harm each other, except for 0 ATK Whomp. Thwomp, in Duel Mode also OHKs any Partner, but doesn't attack Mario, Yoshi, Peach, etc. Presumably because OHK would be broken if it could hit the PCs.

ANYWAY, perhaps more productively, Chain Chomps have feats via their attacks in Duel Mode, which might be quantifiable, if we assume they are indeed mostly made of iron.

Basic attack is ramming through the entire opponent's team. Maybe gets speed & AP? (Baby Bowser flies up in the air presumably because ordinarily, CC goes through the opponents in a row; I assume they didn't consider teams standing at corners like that.) It also seems to cause small explosions on the ground with its charge.

Powered up attack. Enlarges considerably, & crushes the enemy team. Greater AP feat, possibly?

In Duel Mode, Koopas, Snifits, Whomps, Thwomps, Mr. Blizzard & other Chomps can survive the basic attack. Powered Up Chain Chomp's Attack OHKs any but Whomp & Mr. Blizzard.


Also, perhaps worth celebrating is I found an AP feat for a Goomba!

On the Mario Party 4 board, Goomba's Greedy Gala, a Goomba rams a Roulette Ball about as big as itself -or slightly larger; Nearly Yoshi's size- hard enough to knock it into the air, & onto a nearby, giant spinning roulette wheel!

Googling gets me this info: "In the past roulette balls were made out of ivory. At present, in most cases they are molded out of acetal, nylon, or phenolic."

Yes, probably unimpressive, but at least it got some distance & airtime with the ball, right? Considering Goombas are currently 10-C (Below Average Human), that might be able to get them upgraded, no?

 

[LuckyEmile]

Well, remember that Chain Chomps are essentially hollow... That will quite drastically lower KE...

Plus, not sure if low tiers can scale seeing how in the PAL guides (which is canon, or at least official, as it's where we get infromation such as names sourced from) appears to class Chain Chomps as a thing that Mario would have a hard time dealing with, whilst Koopas and the like aren't that tough. So... yeah.

However, I did do some calculations of Bullet Bills and Banzai Bills on my wiki if anyone's interesting. I got Room level Banzai Bill pretty consistently across games.

EDIT: We are talking this hollow:

 

[Imaginym]

Does it help the cases for some other enemies that they can damage Chain Chomps in Duel Mode? (Admittedly, those ones are roughly the size of the Player Characters & lack any Chain.)

Also, do we have a stance on Paper Mario lore or feats being applied to other aspects of Mario characters? How do we treat Paper Mario RPG Partner characters like Goombario, Goombella, Kooper, Koops, Bombette, Bobbery, etc. compared to regular members of their species?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm pretty sure there's feats in Mario Strikers for the fodder.

The partner Goombas/Koopas are different. They'll probably be scaled to the other partners with feats.

 

[Imaginym]

....I should probably look into that. Would here be fine to post about any such feats I find? It is a Q&A Boards thread, as opposed to the Calculations Requests thread or a Content Revision Board thread.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Sure

 

[Imaginym]

Low quality video, music over audio, & awkward camera angles, but being that I'm a bit lazy, & it's hard to find skillshots of lesser characters in Let's Plays & such....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAuZM6Lq5aw This video seems to show off several Skillshots. Of course, I'd like better video sources for the moves if anyone knows of them.

This page provides brief descriptions of the Skillshots, & linked version provide more info & stationary images of the moves in action. https://www.mariowiki.com/Skillshot

How do they look as feats? (Ignoring Fire Meteor because Toad already has it listed on his profile. Although his Fire Manipulation specifies him needing a Fire Flower even though he doesn't seem to use one for this.)

https://www.mariowiki.com/Hammer_Throw_(Mario_Strikers_Charged) Creating hammers of notable size.

https://www.mariowiki.com/Shell_Smash Makes a giant white shell -assuming it's anything like real turtle shell, made of bone- which Koopa is apparently strong enough to kick. It stuns players it passes through.

https://www.mariowiki.com/Extreme_Egg AP for making a giant egg which encases the ball, & launching said giant, ball-containing egg? Can be blocked by others, but stuns them.

https://www.mariowiki.com/Dirt_Drill If we assume AP can be found by determining the material of the stages & assuming Monty Mole can dig through that ground as fast as it does, that might be a feat.

https://www.mariowiki.com/Shocker_(Mario_Strikers_Charged) Electricity Manipulation for Dry Bones, via electrically charging the ball. Causes visible blue electricity. Shocks opponents. Can be interrupted.

Perhaps most notable is Shy Guy's.

https://www.mariowiki.com/Bullet_Bill_Blast Shy Guy seemingly summons a Bullet Bill, which has flaming exhaust, & which Shy Guy rides to the goal. The Bullet Bill then explodes. This knocks out everyone within range (game mechanics?) including Shy Guy & Kritter (the goalie) but apparently Shy Guy will recover earlier than everyone else.

The point is, this Skillshot shows us that Shy Guy can apparently, summon & ride a Bullet Bill, as well as tank the explosion, & get up from it fairly quickly, as can other characters.

I dunno about the Kritter scaling -it's a DKC character, but we do have Kongs as Mario characters- but Hammer Bros, Koopa Troopa, Dry Bones, & Monty Mole are all Sidekicks along with Shy Guy.

(As are Toad & Birdo, but they're 4-A already.)

So that's something.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Just popping in to say that there's a reason Shy Guys tend to be treated on a better tier than Koopas amd Goombas in Bowser's army.

They're super versatile and can somewhat restrain a Chain Chomp while several of them working together can carry, chuck, and tank a Thwomp.

The RPGs also give them a Silence status effect to shut down the obviously overpowered Magikoopas by basically getting rid of what makes them deadly.