Calculations: Brick Destruction Values

[Flashlight237]

Hey there. So, there is a lack of information on the destruction value of bricks. I did some Google searching in order to try and find the necessary values for brick destruction, especially considering that somehow bricks are WEAKER than stone. From what I can tell, here's what I can gather.

Fragmentation (using the average shear strength of brick-and-mortar masonry): 0.51 j/cc (based on the average value gathered here: http://www.scielo.org.pe/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S2309-04132019000200006 )
Violent Fragmentation (using the compressive strength of brick-and-mortar masonry): 2.81 to 5.65 j/cc (based on this: https://www.ancientportsantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/ETUDESarchivees/Maçonnerie/CiasaillementMaçonnerie-NAMC-2011.pdf )
Pulverization (using compressive strength of the bricks themselves): 19.28 (https://www.ancientportsantiques.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/ETUDESarchivees/Maçonnerie/CiasaillementMaçonnerie-NAMC-2011.pdf ) to 24.37 j/cc (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214509520301418 )

Why not add this to the wiki already? Bricks are a very common and thus important material for the Vs Debating environment!

 

[Dalesean027]

Following

Should probably mention this calc here as well

Human-Shaped Holes Re-Calc

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

This seems like a good idea

I also would like for someone to calc the energy to cut off certain limbs such as arms or legs

That happens alot in fiction as well

 

[Flashlight237]

This seems like a good idea

I also would like for someone to calc the energy to cut off certain limbs such as arms or legs

That happens alot in fiction as well

I think the arm thing was done by StackExchange, but then again, that's a .com site.

 

[Flashlight237]

Bump

 

[Dalesean027]

Bump

Want me to @ some CGMs?

 

[Dalesean027]

Can you guys give inputs here


@KLOL506 @DemiiPowa @Jasonsith @Armorchompy @Damage3245 @Aguywhodoesthings @AbaddonTheDisappointment @CloverDragon03 @Dark-Carioca @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Antvasima

 

[Flashlight237]

I dunno if Calc Group members are able to ping people like Admins can.

 

[Dalesean027]

I dunno if Calc Group members are able to ping people like Admins can.

shit really :V

I swear I've seen KLOL ping peeps before

 

[KLOL506]

IIRC we also use concrete as a mainline standard for bricks now.

I guess this would work for red clay bricks. Maybe a value for clay as a whole too?

 

[KLOL506]

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Migue79 @CloverDragon03 @Aguywhodoesthings @Psychomaster35 @DontTalkDT What do you think?

 

[Damage3245]

At first glance this seems to be okay.

 

[Migue79]

I concur with Damage.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Seems fine to me. Lowkey thought bricks would have a higher value tbh but I can't really argue with the facts

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This all looks fine to me

 

[Flashlight237]

Maybe a value for clay as a whole too?

I wouldn't go that far considering how fragile pottery is compared to bricks.

 

[KLOL506]

I wouldn't go that far considering how fragile pottery is compared to bricks.

Ah.

As for the concrete, I'd recommend getting an average of the values on both links, or maybe using them all to suit the concrete build quality.

Best quality would use the highest value, lowest quality would use the lowest value, in-between uses the in-between value.

 

[Flashlight237]

Ah.

As for the concrete, I'd recommend getting an average of the values on both links, or maybe using them all to suit the concrete build quality.

Best quality would use the highest value, lowest quality would use the lowest value, in-between uses the in-between value.

Yeah, I personally agree with this given build quality is important. Concrete is essentially powdered limestone mixed with water then hardened after all. Going through with it, I can more reasonably see these values listed for each.:

Fragmentation: 2 to 6 MPa or j/cc (First value sourced from university listing, second value listed from current reference)
Violent Fragmentation: 17 to 20 MPa or j/cc (same as before)
Pulverization: 14 to 42 MPa (University listing; includes current 40 j/cc value for pulverization)

That's kinda the reason why I do what I do instead of what the wiki wants me to do: generally studies and especially university and government sources are more reliable than some list off the internet (I mean, Christ, you guys sourced this using completely wrong values months ago and it probably got removed because I pointed out how off the rails you guys went: https://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=3d4056a86e79481cb6a80c89caae1d90&ckck=1 )

 

[Flashlight237]

Bump (I don't think this was concluded; just that the destructive capacity values of brick (those red things) basically accepted and it turned into a debate for concrete.)

 

[KLOL506]

Anyway, brick values are good to go.

 

[Flashlight237]

Is it safe apply any of this to the calc page under "Brick" or "Red Brick"? It seems accepted by many calc-groupers.

 

[Antvasima]

If our calc group has collectively accepted this, it should be fine to apply, yes. It is their area of authority after all.

 

[KLOL506]

Is it safe apply any of this to the calc page under "Brick" or "Red Brick"? It seems accepted by many calc-groupers.

Sure, just gotta wait for DontTalkDT or any competent calc member to add it to the table of destruction values.

 

[Antvasima]

Would any staff member here be willing and able to properly handle applying the change?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I can apply this if the Calculations page is unlocked

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. I have done so.

Calculations

In order to determine a character's Destructive Capacity, we must first look through the character's feats, and determine how much energy was exerted to preform such a feat. Sometimes the destructive capacity of the feat can be determined easily with no need of a calculation, but most of the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Tell me here when you are done please.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm done. The page can be locked again

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out. It is appreciated.

 

[KLOL506]

Guess we can close this thread as well, it's concluded.

 

[Flashlight237]

Well, I think having the citations around would be appreciated just in case. Not sure how people would react to brick's values being listed without sources.

 

[KLOL506]

Well, I think having the citations around would be appreciated just in case. Not sure how people would react to brick's values being listed without sources.

You can link them below the table like we did for our other sources. I can do it if you like.

 

[Flashlight237]

You can link them below the table like we did for our other sources. I can do it if you like.

Yeah, go ahead. I don't have permissions to do so (got a View Source thingy).

 

[KLOL506]

Very well.

@Antvasima Would you be kind enough to open the page again so that I can put in the links?

 

[Antvasima]

I have done so. Tell me here when you are done please.

 

[KLOL506]

Done. Please check for any errors or if it looks too out of place.

Calculations

In order to determine a character's Destructive Capacity, we must first look through the character's feats, and determine how much energy was exerted to preform such a feat. Sometimes the destructive capacity of the feat can be determined easily with no need of a calculation, but most of the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Calculations

In order to determine a character's Destructive Capacity, we must first look through the character's feats, and determine how much energy was exerted to preform such a feat. Sometimes the destructive capacity of the feat can be determined easily with no need of a calculation, but most of the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Dark-Carioca]

It looks fine, as far as I can see.

 

[KLOL506]

I think we're done here now. Thread can be closed. @Antvasima if you don't mind.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. I will close this thread then.

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.