Bypass Gojo's infinity

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Can the ground that Gojo is stepping on be used against Gojo bypassing infinity?
Let's say a character that has the ability to manipulate earth uses his ability to turn the ground that is in direct contact with Gojo's shoes into a shape of a spike to pierce through Gojo's feet. Would it hurt Gojo? Or would it still be stopped by infinity?

 

[Testarossa002]

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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Air Walk? He jumped on the rocks Sukuna lifted apparently

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[Suigetsuhyugs]

This is not staff worthy
Jjk has a discussion thread
Ask there

Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

Air Walk? He jumped on the rocks Sukuna lifted apparently

vsbattles.com

I made it my phone it was supposed to be QnA miss clicked

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

bump

 

[AThe1412]

Pretty sure it wouldn't. Gojo stepped on some ants with Infinity on and they didn't get hurt.

 

[VoidGoji]

Nope, infinity would still stop it since it has to properly touch/travel to him and he can just not allow that

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Pretty sure it wouldn't. Gojo stepped on some ants with Infinity on and they didn't get hurt.

Nope, infinity would still stop it since it has to properly touch/travel to him and he can just not allow that

That's not what I was asking about, it's not about controlling things close to him but things that are already touching Gojo like the ground he is stepping on.

If the ground example is too hard to understand let's say that it is a character with the power to manipulate the opponents clothes, he uses the clothes to try to kill Gojo.

 

[AThe1412]

That's not what I was asking about, it's not about controlling things close to him but things that are already touching Gojo like the ground he is stepping on.

If the ground example is too hard to understand let's say that it is a character with the power to manipulate the opponents clothes, he uses the clothes to try to kill Gojo.

Unless the ability has infinite range, it simply won't be able to reach the clothes.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Unless the ability has infinite range, it simply won't be able to reach the clothes.

What you talking about? That is not a thing any ability that works by telekinetically manipulating a target surpasses Infinity, only abilities that require contact are bound by Gojo's infinity.

 

[AThe1412]

What you talking about? That is not a thing any ability that works by telekinetically manipulating a target surpasses Infinity, only abilities that require contact are bound by Gojo's infinity.

I don't remember that at all. Jogo can spawn flames directly on people without touching them and it never worked on Gojo.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I don't remember that at all. Jogo can spawn flames directly on people without touching them and it never worked on Gojo.

He never did that against Gojo.

 

[AThe1412]

He never did that against Gojo.

Because it didn't work. Why wouldn't he if it did?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Because it didn't work. Why wouldn't he if it did?

Plot reasons, and even if wouldn't work doesn't mean it was because of infinity. Regardless any attack that spawns directly surpasses him, there were already threads regarding this topic and I saw most agreed

 

[VoidGoji]

The Jogo thing confuses me, since the "spawn flames on people" shows just things around him getting so hot they burst out in flames. Other times he had to touch the target or firing a jetstream of fire/lava (see him blitzing Maki and Nanami, and having to "launch" it at Gojo's face). Gojo can seemingly control how much heat passes through Infinity, since he could stop both the heat from lava jet and the insects from burning him.

Infinity explicitly stops things that have to travel to him.

 

[AThe1412]

The Jogo thing confuses me, since the "spawn flames on people" shows just things around him getting so hot they burst out in flames. Other times he had to touch the target or firing a jetstream of fire/lava (see him blitzing Maki and Nanami, and having to "launch" it at Gojo's face). Gojo can seemingly control how much heat passes through Infinity, since he could stop both the heat from lava jet and the insects from burning him.

Infinity explicitly stops things that have to travel to him.

So could it stop something that's already touching him?

 

[VoidGoji]

Dunno, but probably? If its already on him, infinity shouldn't be able to stop

 

[LaserPrecision]

I would say even if they could manipulate clothes (or the ground he stood on), it would not matter. Because they are not truly "touching" him. There is still space between them, just space too small to the human eye. Gojo can control space at bare-minimum the atomic level (more than likely sub-atomic for blocking out the heat from Jogo's flames. Heats transfers via electromagnetic waves). The space between his feet and the ground, or his skin and his clothes will be larger than the size of an atom. So Infinity could stop it from getting any closer I would presume.

As for stopping things from spawning on him, I've mixed feelings about it. I think it would stop Jogo's flames from doing so (Jogo knew he couldn't spawn his flames on Gojo after he explained Infinity to him. Instead he opted for Domain Expansion to bypass it instead), but then you have Domains which literally negate Infinity via having the attacks come into existence on the target. So dunno

I think it'd stop smth like Telekinesis tho. Gojo has that, and I feel it'd be weird narratively for him to not have smth like that blocked out. Though it's worth nothing that in quite a few verses, Telekinesis actually travel, but is just invisible. Thus the trajectory isn't known to us. I dunno if the wiki treats that as a default assumption or not though.

That's just my 2 cents.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Btw, to add onto that, that would mean that yes, if the distance between Gojo and an object were somehow less than that of the atomic (possibly sub-atomic) scale, it would be able to touch him. As it would be below the scope at which Infinity works.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Btw, to add onto that, that would mean that yes, if the distance between Gojo and an object were somehow less than that of the atomic (possibly sub-atomic) scale, it would be able to touch him. As it would be below the scope at which Infinity works.

So basically if Raiden from Metal Gear tried to slash him with his Planck Scale HF Blade then Gojo is cooked?

 

[LaserPrecision]

So basically if Raiden from Metal Gear tried to slash him with his Planck Scale HF Blade then Gojo is cooked?

I'm not a SUPER big Metal Gear fan (Don't get me wrong, I like the series. Just haven't gotten to that game yet), but if the blade itself is plank-length in thickness, it should be able to bypass it yes. However, if the blade is not plank-length in thickness, but just cuts at that level (Via vibration or some hax or smth), it probably wouldn't go through. (Granted, Gojo would likely expand Infinity's range assuming he was cut by it. Expand it enough for the blade to not be able to reach him because the handle gets "stuck" in Infinity. Assuming the handle isn't plank length in thickness)

I hope that answers your question

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm not a SUPER big Metal Gear fan (Don't get me wrong, I like the series. Just haven't gotten to that game yet), but if the blade itself is plank-length in thickness, it should be able to bypass it yes. However, if the blade is not plank-length in thickness, but just cuts at that level (Via vibration or some hax or smth), it probably wouldn't go through. (Granted, Gojo would likely expand Infinity's range assuming he was cut by it. Expand it enough for the blade to not be able to reach him because the handle gets "stuck" in Infinity. Assuming the handle isn't plank length in thickness)

I hope that answers your question

It's not the blade itself that's that small, it's the effect it has on anything within several meters of even just it slashing the air.

 

[LaserPrecision]

It's not the blade itself that's that small, it's the effect it has on anything within several meters of even just it slashing the air.

Is it a long blade, send air slashes, or does is like esoterically cut things on the plank-level without contact? If it's the latter, that definitely gets through. But at that point, the scale they cut at wouldn't even matter because the attack just spawns on the enemy. Maybe if I saw the blade in action?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Is it a long blade, send air slashes, or does is like esoterically cut things on the plank-level without contact? If it's the latter, that definitely gets through. But at that point, the scale they cut at wouldn't even matter because the attack just spawns on the enemy. Maybe if I saw the blade in action?

All of the above though it's not sending slashes of air, it just looks like that.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

There's scans that show what I mean on his profile.

 

[LaserPrecision]

There's scans that show what I mean on his profile.

After looking at the profile; not sure. Like you said, it esoterically has extended range. And I'm not sure how we treat that. As an air slash? Smth else? Assuming the extended affect area is thin enough to be considered plank-scale in size, yeah, it'd get through. If we treat it as like, air molecules or smth, prolly not.

My guess is on the first swing, they'd be able to cut Gojo. Then he extends the reach of his Infinity to several or ten-ish meters to the blade's cutting affect can't get within range of him.

 

[Churchill]

I would say even if they could manipulate clothes (or the ground he stood on), it would not matter. Because they are not truly "touching" him. There is still space between them, just space too small to the human eye. Gojo can control space at bare-minimum the atomic level (more than likely sub-atomic for blocking out the heat from Jogo's flames. Heats transfers via electromagnetic waves). The space between his feet and the ground, or his skin and his clothes will be larger than the size of an atom. So Infinity could stop it from getting any closer I would presume.

I'm not sure I agree with this as thermal flow can take place at anywhere from molecular to the quantum realm. I really don't see any evidence from jjk that gojo blocks heat transfer at anything more fundamental than the atomic scale and tbh, sub atomic already seems like heavy extrapolation

As for stopping things from spawning on him, I've mixed feelings about it. I think it would stop Jogo's flames from doing so (Jogo knew he couldn't spawn his flames on Gojo after he explained Infinity to him. Instead he opted for Domain Expansion to bypass it instead), but then you have Domains which literally negate Infinity via having the attacks come into existence on the target. So dunno

Pretty neutral on this. If domains force shut cursed techniques then jogo not spawning flames on gojo gives me the impression spawning wasn't even the problem

I think it'd stop smth like Telekinesis tho. Gojo has that, and I feel it'd be weird narratively for him to not have smth like that blocked out. Though it's worth nothing that in quite a few verses, Telekinesis actually travel, but is just invisible. Thus the trajectory isn't known to us. I dunno if the wiki treats that as a default assumption or not though.

That's just my 2 cents.

Tk that have feats of traveling, sure. Disagree with normal tk tho.
Plus I remember a thread where it was pretty much established tk doesn't travel barring anti feats. I think it was Ben 10..ig?

 

[LaserPrecision]

I'm not sure I agree with this as thermal flow can take place at anywhere from molecular to the quantum realm. I really don't see any evidence from jjk that gojo blocks heat transfer at anything more fundamental than the atomic scale and tbh, sub atomic already seems like heavy extrapolation

IIRC, Thermal Flow's scale is based on the method of transfer. IIRC it's convection, thermal radiation, and conduction (Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. Been a while since I've looked into it). In the case of radiation, it's photon's or electromagnetic waves that are the result of transfer. I think it would be radiation in the case of Jogo since he's shooting fire at Gojo. I could be wrong, but that's what I recall. Either way tho, that is why I put it in parenthesis. Take it as you will.

Pretty neutral on this. If domains force shut cursed techniques then jogo not spawning flames on gojo gives me the impression spawning wasn't even the problem

I assume by force shut you mean turn off/neutralize? Or did you mean smth else?

Tk that have feats of traveling, sure. Disagree with normal tk tho.
Plus I remember a thread where it was pretty much established tk doesn't travel barring anti feats. I think it was Ben 10..ig?

I don't really look at Ben 10 stuff. So I'll have to take your word for it. I wasn't really sure what the default assumption was for the wiki. I do imagine Gojo's Infinity would be able to protect him from Telekinesis tho. He has it himself, so I imagine it'd be easy enough to figure out how to have Infinity block that out.

 

[Churchill]

IIRC, Thermal Flow's scale is based on the method of transfer. IIRC it's convection, thermal radiation, and conduction (Correct me if I'm wrong about any of this. Been a while since I've looked into it). In the case of radiation, it's photon's or electromagnetic waves that are the result of transfer. I think it would be radiation in the case of Jogo since he's shooting fire at Gojo. I could be wrong, but that's what I recall. Either way tho, that is why I put it in parenthesis. Take it as you will.

There all still forms of heat transfer. Convection requiring movement of fluids, radiation requiring transfer of excited particles in the absence of a conventional medium and conduction via substances with vibrational transfers. Fire ideally would be radiation but the temperature of his surroundings would still heat up via air molecules meaning he doesn't necessarily have to block particles themselves but molecules of gases...
You're not wrong, just feels like sub atomic is kinda too much..I mean, some types of polymers and glass as well as some insulators provide some sort of protection from heat without needing to subdue non classical phenomenon.
Personally, I'd say atomic is as "definitive" as it gets in terms of a stable consistent scale

I assume by force shut you mean turn off/neutralize? Or did you mean smth else?

Yea, that's what I meant.

I don't really look at Ben 10 stuff. So I'll have to take your word for it. I wasn't really sure what the default assumption was for the wiki. I do imagine Gojo's Infinity would be able to protect him from Telekinesis tho. He has it himself, so I imagine it'd be easy enough to figure out how to have Infinity block that out.

My memory's fuzzy on that so have the dead sea with it if you will lol...
But yea, blue's some sort of reality tk no doubt, I just don't feel confident in the chain of him being able to negate the ability externally due to him having it. Don't know if you resonate with what I'm trying to say

 

[LaserPrecision]

There all still forms of heat transfer. Convection requiring movement of fluids, radiation requiring transfer of excited particles in the absence of a conventional medium and conduction via substances with vibrational transfers. Fire ideally would be radiation but the temperature of his surroundings would still heat up via air molecules meaning he doesn't necessarily have to block particles themselves but molecules of gases...
You're not wrong, just feels like sub atomic is kinda too much..I mean, some types of polymers and glass as well as some insulators provide some sort of protection from heat without needing to subdue non classical phenomenon.
Personally, I'd say atomic is as "definitive" as it gets in terms of a stable consistent scale

I understand. I usually go atomic and make mentions of heat if people say sub-atomic is completely implausible in regards to Infinity (To be fair, I think Atomic as a word can encompass Sub-Atomic stuff too when used vaguely).

Yea, that's what I meant.

I don't think Domains shut off techniques. Like I brought up earlier, the attacks don't exist until they've already hit their target. Thus it bypasses Infinity. But we see with Mei Mei inside of Smallpox's Domain uses their Cursed Technique to kill it. Gojo used Blue and Red inside of Malevolent Shrine. Sukuna used Shrine inside of Self-Embodiment of Perfection, etc.

My memory's fuzzy on that so have the dead sea with it if you will lol...
But yea, blue's some sort of reality tk no doubt, I just don't feel confident in the chain of him being able to negate the ability externally due to him having it. Don't know if you resonate with what I'm trying to say

I can understand. It would just feel kinda weird narratively for the technique that's stated nothing can bypass could be bypassed by an ability Gojo literally has. But I know that people on the wiki usually prefer feats/statements over inferring smth, which is fine.

I'd also like to note that I think Blue and Gojo's TK are different. When Gojo uses Blue, it's visible, but in scenario's like this:

Could be wrong, but always interpreted it as smth else other than standard Blue. Maybe just him moving things through space? Either, functions like TK in execution.

Either way, in regards to TK, I do feel it involves traveling some distance, because you move things via your mind. I don't think TK is treated as moving the atoms or particles that make up the character. But an esoteric/mental force that surrounds their body, and can be directed to move them in a direction. So to move them, it'd have to exert force in a direction, which I think would constitute traveling. So I feel like maybe someone could manifest the force around him, but when they attempt moving the telekinetic force to move them, he'd just stand still. Tho in the case of smth where someone legit just has manipulation of atoms and stuff, then yeah, that would bypass it I have no doubts.

 

[Churchill]

I understand. I usually go atomic and make mentions of heat if people say sub-atomic is completely implausible in regards to Infinity (To be fair, I think Atomic as a word can encompass Sub-Atomic stuff too when used vaguely).

Lmao, sorry I took a while. It was around 5am here and I hadn't slept yet.
Anyway, It's precisely that vagueness and absence of further clarification that makes me take the leads there are as carefully as I can....
No clarification, molecular=molecular, atomic =atomic, planck scale=planck scale.

I don't think Domains shut off techniques. Like I brought up earlier, the attacks don't exist until they've already hit their target. Thus it bypasses Infinity. But we see with Mei Mei inside of Smallpox's Domain uses their Cursed Technique to kill it. Gojo used Blue and Red inside of Malevolent Shrine. Sukuna used Shrine inside of Self-Embodiment of Perfection, etc.

Oh yeah thanks. Kinda forgot the limited power null stems from the sure hit.
Doesn't really affect my (your?) point though as infinity would be bypassed if jogo decided to spawn his flames on gojo in his domain yet he didn't

I can understand. It would just feel kinda weird narratively for the technique that's stated nothing can bypass could be bypassed by an ability Gojo literally has. But I know that people on the wiki usually prefer feats/statements over inferring smth, which is fine.

Iirc, there was a thread addressing wether infinity's truly inviolable since about 5(?) people in the room actually had ways to bypass it when that statement was made.
While it feels weird I still see reason in treating correlation carefully.
It's kinda like giving one resistance to abilities he posseses. Yea, not really a 1 to 1 but you get the drill. He hasn't shown that yet and imo, there doesn't seem to be enough implication that his abilities should be coupled

I'd also like to note that I think Blue and Gojo's TK are different. When Gojo uses Blue, it's visible, but in scenario's like this:

Could be wrong, but always interpreted it as smth else other than standard Blue. Maybe just him moving things through space? Either, functions like TK in execution.

I just see that as an application of blue. Really don't have any problem treating it as a different ability though, say telekinesis since the functionality mirror each other

Either way, in regards to TK, I do feel it involves traveling some distance, because you move things via your mind. I don't think TK is treated as moving the atoms or particles that make up the character. But an esoteric/mental force that surrounds their body, and can be directed to move them in a direction. So to move them, it'd have to exert force in a direction, which I think would constitute traveling. So I feel like maybe someone could manifest the force around him, but when they attempt moving the telekinetic force to move them, he'd just stand still. Tho in the case of smth where someone legit just has manipulation of atoms and stuff, then yeah, that would bypass it I have no doubts.

That's fair. Ultimately, it comes down to what we define (literally) tk to be and the mechanism at which it operates.
Currently, tk's just moving stuff with your mind. If the only thing being affected is the object itself, then it bypasses infinity. If there's a force being projected to enable the movement then infinity blocking it depends on how fundamental that force is.
If it's a physical force then infinity could stop it, more abstract phenomenon ( information, concept etcetera) driving the movement and infinity becomes a non factor.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Lmao, sorry I took a while. It was around 5am here and I hadn't slept yet.
Anyway, It's precisely that vagueness and absence of further clarification that makes me take the leads there are as carefully as I can....
No clarification, molecular=molecular, atomic =atomic, planck scale=planck scale.

It's fine. I don't mind waiting for a reply, lol.
I can understand that too.

Oh yeah thanks. Kinda forgot the limited power null stems from the sure hit.
Doesn't really affect my (your?) point though as infinity would be bypassed if jogo decided to spawn his flames on gojo in his domain yet he didn't

I should note that the attack Jogo did is not the sure-hit of his Domain. It just passive heats up anything inside the domain. That's why Jogo was tweaking out trying to figure out why Gojo wasn't burning to ashes just by being inside of his Domain Expansion.

Anyways, I brought it up in my initial post because it was weird, yeah. The sure-hit effectively ignores Infinity, but the whole reason Jogo did it in the first place was because he didn't believe he could effect him at all with his Jujutsu.
There's two theories I have; The sure-hit of a domain is more than just spawning the attack on someone. It's stated the attack only exists after already hitting the person. So it might be some other form of hax that forces the enemy to be hit before the attack exists (Going by what was said in Dagon's Domain).
Theory two: Jogo can't spawn fire on someone. I wouldn't say I really agree with this cuz this is smth people can do in JJK (Gojo can spawn Blue on people for instance). I don't see why Jogo wouldn't be able to when that's what it looks like he does inside the restaurant, but you never know.

Iirc, there was a thread addressing wether infinity's truly inviolable since about 5(?) people in the room actually had ways to bypass it when that statement was made.
While it feels weird I still see reason in treating correlation carefully.
It's kinda like giving one resistance to abilities he posseses. Yea, not really a 1 to 1 but you get the drill. He hasn't shown that yet and imo, there doesn't seem to be enough implication that his abilities should be coupled

You're talking about during the Shinjuku arc, right? I think I'm referring to earlier instances. IIRC, as early as the Jogo fight Gojo claims nothing can get past Infinity. I think later on we're introduced to some exceptions. Because of those statement's, I generally treat most attacks in JJK as not going past Infinity unless they're stated to be an exception (Or it can be deduced by the nature of the ability). But yeah, I get where you're coming from.

That's fair. Ultimately, it comes down to what we define (literally) tk to be and the mechanism at which it operates.
Currently, tk's just moving stuff with your mind. If the only thing being affected is the object itself, then it bypasses infinity. If there's a force being projected to enable the movement then infinity blocking it depends on how fundamental that force is.
If it's a physical force then infinity could stop it, more abstract phenomenon ( information, concept etcetera) driving the movement and infinity becomes a non factor.

Yeah, in the case of more abstract stuff, that'd go right past (The most you could argue for Gojo is since he manipulates the concept of Infinity on a local scale, he could perhaps block some conceptual stuff, but idk). Since smth like TK isn't usually explained, it really comes down to how the reader interprets it I suppose. I always imagined it as creating an invisible (sometimes visible) force around someone to move them. Something which has direction. So I figured unless the TK worked on the Sub-Atomic scale, Gojo could just ignore it.

 

[Churchill]

It's fine. I don't mind waiting for a reply, lol.
I can understand that too.

I should note that the attack Jogo did is not the sure-hit of his Domain. It just passive heats up anything inside the domain. That's why Jogo was tweaking out trying to figure out why Gojo wasn't burning to ashes just by being inside of his Domain Expansion.

Oh, I know that was just environmental temperature

Anyways, I brought it up in my initial post because it was weird, yeah. The sure-hit effectively ignores Infinity, but the whole reason Jogo did it in the first place was because he didn't believe he could effect him at all with his Jujutsu.
There's two theories I have; The sure-hit of a domain is more than just spawning the attack on someone. It's stated the attack only exists after already hitting the person. So it might be some other form of hax that forces the enemy to be hit before the attack exists (Going by what was said in Dagon's Domain).
Theory two: Jogo can't spawn fire on someone. I wouldn't say I really agree with this cuz this is smth people can do in JJK (Gojo can spawn Blue on people for instance). I don't see why Jogo wouldn't be able to when that's what it looks like he does inside the restaurant, but you never know.

Yeah, I'm not really on board with 2 either and 1 seems like there's something missing because I don't know if the series has really defined what it means by "not exist" and it doesn't make sense for the attack to existing only after hitting the target because then there'd be no reason for the attack in the first place

You're talking about during the Shinjuku arc, right? I think I'm referring to earlier instances. IIRC, as early as the Jogo fight Gojo claims nothing can get past Infinity. I think later on we're introduced to some exceptions. Because of those statement's, I generally treat most attacks in JJK as not going past Infinity unless they're stated to be an exception (Or it can be deduced by the nature of the ability). But yeah, I get where you're coming from.

Aaakay, I can agree to that

Yeah, in the case of more abstract stuff, that'd go right past (The most you could argue for Gojo is since he manipulates the concept of Infinity on a local scale, he could perhaps block some conceptual stuff, but idk). Since smth like TK isn't usually explained, it really comes down to how the reader interprets it I suppose. I always imagined it as creating an invisible (sometimes visible) force around someone to move them. Something which has direction. So I figured unless the TK worked on the Sub-Atomic scale, Gojo could just ignore it.

I just thought of tk as being simple. You move things with your mind ez. I guess that's why it seems so op.

Although, I can't quite remember but I vaguely recall a series where someone had to propagate some invisible force onto something to actually move it. I don't see those kinda abilities as tk, maybe some diluted form.
Just like solo leveling where Jin woo's tk has some form of contact as emanating energy to actually move things via gestures so I'd imagine a tk like that would get negged but a normal one without any sort of propelled force wouldn't