Buuhan Downgrade to Low 2C?

[Torrus_Silvèr]

It was proposed here

https://vsbattles.com/threads/db-toei-about-buuhans-tier-2-rating.152322/

That Buuhans technique outside space should scale to his AP in which this was agreed upon.

However during the post it was mentioned that the daizenshuu stated that the space Buuhan was warping would cover the living world and wipe out "THE UNIVERSE"

It was argued that the Universe is distinct from the living world in that profile. Which is agreed upon.

However what was agreed was that Universe 7 was what "THE UNIVERSE" was referring to.

In the daizenshuu in the demon realm and living world profile, you can see that it is explained very distinctly that the:

Living world = "THE UNIVERSE" + Demon Realm.

Quote:

"この世
The Living World
A general term for the world that combines the entire universe and the Demon Realm. In Dragon Ball's world-view, there is the airtight universe, and there is the Demon Realm that takes the appearance of the reverse side of that."


Quote:

魔界
Demon Realm
A world in a dimension on the other side of "the universe," which is the world where people exist. It differs from "Hell;" it is a world confirmed to be in the Living World. However, magic holds greater influence than science. Similar to the obverse universe being split into east, west, south, and north areas, the Demon Realm is also split into multiple space areas. And the absolute king who commands all of this is Daabra.

Quote:

宇宙
The Universe
The endless, expansive space wrapped around every celestial body that exists in the Living World. Along with the "Demon Realm," it is a single, large world in the Living World.

Quote:

Outside Space

Overwhelmed by Vegetto, Buu went into a frenzy and generated this, which caused distortions to appear in the space around him. It seems that this power was also what enabled Buu to escape from the Room of Spirit and Time. This space would cover the living world and wipe out the universe.

It is clear here that the Universe in context to the living world, refers to 1 of the 2 dimension that reside within the living world.

In this link, you can see that the Universe is the daizenshuu which is where the outside space scan is from, is mainly reffered to the 4 quadrants of the Universe, which is part of the demon realm.

In otherwords, the Daizenshuu is saying Buuhan will crush this 1 dimension in the living world labelled and reffered to as The Universe and the Demon realm, the other dimension has no evidence of being effected.

Under the VSB definitions of Low 2C and 2C, the daizenshuu makes it clear that Buuhan's feat is only significantly effecting "The Universe" by crushing it with alternate dimensions.

But as clarified before. The Universe is NOT Universe 7, but a single dimension within the Living world.

Since Buuhan requires alternate dimensions to crush a single dimension, or in otherwords, is using his power to cause a chain reaction to destroy this 1 dimension labelled the Universe

The chain reaction effect of Buuhan breaking down the dimensional walls is only Low 2C destruction. Therefore I find Buuhan scaling to solid 2C quote perplexing

This should be at most low 2C as there is definitive evidence that he is effecting the fabric of spacetime for "The Universe" which again lays within the living world, and not all of U7.

There is not sufficient enough evidence that he significantly affecting the OTHER space time continuums required for the classification of Solid 2C.

Links to where the daizenshuu information can be found

Dragon Ball Daizenshuu #7 - Pages 35-50

EDIT: It seems the feat is being accepted as 2C due to iust destroying the walls between dimensions alone.

So my remaining issue is simply the fact as to why the entire U7 macrocosm is being destroyed, rather than the dimensions inside the living world, labelled "The Universe"

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Disagree.

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

Disagree.

Any particular reason for disagreeing with the whole Universe in the living world part?

 

[Robo432343]

Disagree.

And you call me a troll

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Disagree. The Daizenshuu's statement about the universe is in reference to the multi dimensional merging/collapse that would ensue after Buuhan destroyed the space-time of the macrocosm, which is what was used as an AP feat, not the former. The logic here is a literal strawman to what was used to upgrade him in the first place.

 

[AguilaR202]

The feat is rated 2-C because of the part where the walls separating dimensions would be destroyed as a whole. The ensuing destruction doesn’t matter because just the act of destroying the fabric of spacetime separating different dimensions is 2-C by itself

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

Disagree. The Daizenshuu's statement about the universe is in reference to the multi dimensional merging/collapse that would ensue after Buuhan destroyed the space-time of the macrocosm, which is what was used as an AP feat, not the former. The logic here is a literal strawman to what was used to upgrade him in the first place.

There is no real proof for this.

Also the the original post stated that destroying the wall between dimension in itself should be considered an AP feat as he is destroying the fabric of spacetime.

However it was never stated that Buuhan was destroyed the fabric of spacetime for the whole macrocosm.

It is suggested to be the spacetime fabric of "The Universe" which I have proved, that in the daizenshuu means to refer to the dimension within the living world.

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

The feat is rated 2-C because of the part where the walls separating dimensions would be destroyed as a whole. The ensuing destruction doesn’t matter because just the act of destroying the fabric of spacetime separating different dimensions is 2-C by itself

I see. I suppose then my real issue is that it is being proposed that U7 will be destroyed by Buuhan rather than the dimension within the living world that is labelled as the Universe.

 

[AguilaR202]

There is no real proof for this.

Also the the original post stated that destroying the wall between dimension in itself should be considered an AP feat as he is destroying the fabric of spacetime.

However it was never stated that Buuhan was destroyed the fabric of spacetime for the whole macrocosm.

It is suggested to be the spacetime fabric of "The Universe" which I have proved, that in the daizenshuu means to refer to the dimension within the living world.

Dende refers to isolated instances such as the RoSAT escape as a ‘breaking through’ the walls between dimensions

Buuhans case has him stating that the ‘’walls between dimensions’’ would be destroyed, this means all of them as a whole would be affected, add to this the fact they are the only thing keeping different spacetimes separate from eachother their destruction can only be 2-C.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

However it was never stated that Buuhan was destroyed the fabric of spacetime for the whole macrocosm.

It is suggested to be the spacetime fabric of "The Universe" which I have proved, that in the daizenshuu means to refer to the dimension within the living world.

Well, that was evaluated to be the case because he was causing those dimensions to effectively merge into each other. Destroying the space-time of just the universe on it's own wouldn't have any effect on other dimensions.

What you're suggesting to be the case is just standard single space-time continuum Low 2-C destruction, in which case there's no reason other separate dimensions would be affected like what Buuhan was doing.

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

Dende refers to isolated instances such as the RoSAT escape as a ‘breaking through’ the walls between dimensions

Buuhans case has him stating that the ‘’walls between dimensions’’ would be destroyed, this means all of them as a whole would be affected, add to this the fact they are the only thing keeping different spacetimes separate from eachother their destruction can only be 2-C.

At last a propper answer. Ty.

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

Thx

Well, that was evaluated to be the case because he was causing those dimensions to effectively merge into each other. Destroying the space-time of just the universe on it's own wouldn't have any effect on other dimensions.

What you're suggesting to be the case is just standard single space-time continuum Low 2-C destruction, in which case there's no reason other separate dimensions would be affected like what Buuhan was doing.

Thx. I have some more clarity on the situation with Anguilla and youself

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Any particular reason for disagreeing with the whole Universe in the living world part?

Yeah, got busy. Destroying the universe is irrelevant here, because the point is the fact that he shattered the barriers that are infinite in size.

And you call me a troll

Lord forbid people don’t instantly give out thesis to powerscaling threads, my apologies.

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

Well, that was evaluated to be the case because he was causing those dimensions to effectively merge into each other. Destroying the space-time of just the universe on it's own wouldn't have any effect on other dimensions.

What you're suggesting to be the case is just standard single space-time continuum Low 2-C destruction, in which case there's no reason other separate dimensions would be affected like what Buuhan was doing.

Dende refers to isolated instances such as the RoSAT escape as a ‘breaking through’ the walls between dimensions

Buuhans case has him stating that the ‘’walls between dimensions’’ would be destroyed, this means all of them as a whole would be affected, add to this the fact they are the only thing keeping different spacetimes separate from eachother their destruction can only be 2-C.

Since the Afterlife and Kaioshin Realm are much larger than the living world, could it not be argued that the Universe within the living world would be the only thing crushed as a result of Buuhan tearing down dimensional barriers even if he tore down all dimensional barriers in U7

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It is clearly implied he would also effect the Afterlifes.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

Since the Afterlife and Kaioshin Realm are much larger than the living world, could it not be argued that the Universe within the living world would be the only thing crushed as a result of Buuhan tearing down dimensional barriers even if he tore down all dimensional barriers in U7

Sure? It doesn’t affect his 2-C rating, the resulting collapse itself or what ends up completely destroyed isn’t what merits the AP rating, but the fact that he completely destroys their spatio temporal structures to cause it in the first place.

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

It is clearly implied he would also effect the Afterlifes.

My gripe is more so about what is actually being destroyed.

So far evidence suggests that the dimensional wall will be destroyed and the Universe inside the Living world would be destroyed.

I understand that destroying the Dimensional barriers alone is 2C by some others.

But I am still perplexed as to why the Afterlife and Kaioshin wouldn't just squash the Universe like a sumo wrestler sitting on top of a baby. Considering the sheer size difference.

Aka why is the whole macrocosm being suggested to be destroyed.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I do wonder what the entire macrocosm is referred to as

My gripe is more so about what is actually being destroyed.

So far evidence suggests that the dimensional wall will be destroyed and the Universe inside the Living world would be destroyed.

I understand that destroying the Dimensional barriers alone is 2C by some others.

But I am still perplexed as to why the Afterlife and Kaioshin wouldn't just squash the Universe like a sumo wrestler sitting on top of a baby. Considering the sheer size difference.

Aka why is the whole macrocosm being suggested to be destroyed.

Wdym? all 3 are infinite 4D in size

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

Sure? It doesn’t affect his 2-C rating, the resulting collapse itself or what ends up completely destroyed isn’t what merits the AP rating, but the fact that he completely destroys their spatio temporal structures to cause it in the first place.

Alright. I no longer have qualms about why the feat meets the criteria for 2C, however I do wish to understand the difference in between Buuhan's destroying Walls feat and say Omega Shenron destroying the whole Macrocosm feat.

If you are willing to input.

What is exactly is the quantification difference between the power required to perform these feats.

For example, to go from destroying dimensional walls, to destroying the whole macrocosm.

How much more power than Buuhan is required to perform this?

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

I do wonder what the entire macrocosm is referred to as

Wdym? all 3 are infinite 4D in size

There are levels to infinite.

The afterlife infinitely dwarfs the Universe

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Alright. I no longer have qualms about why the feat meets the criteria for 2C, however I do wish to understand the difference in between Buuhan's destroying Walls feat and say Omega Shenron destroying the whole Macrocosm feat.

If you are willing to input.

What is exactly is the quantification difference between the power required to perform these feats.

For example, to go from destroying dimensional walls, to destroying the whole macrocosm.

How much more power than Buuhan is required to perform this?

Its tier 2 so I think it’s just the same but results would be higher via scaling chains and etc

There are levels to infinite.

The afterlife infinitely dwarfs the Universe

wdym?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well then. Since the doubts were dispelled, should I close this?

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

Its tier 2 so I think it’s just the same but results would be higher via scaling chains and etc

wdym?

Surely destroying the Macrocosms includes destroying all the spacetimes + all the dimensional walls with them.

How could that be equal to jusy destroying the Dimensional walls.

I think this video on infinites would be a better Watch than me explaining it

 

[Torrus_Silvèr]

Well then. Since the doubts were dispelled, should I close this?

Yeah go for it.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Surely destroying the Macrocosms includes destroying all the spacetimes + all the dimensional walls with them.

How could that be equal to jusy destroying the Dimensional walls.

I think this video on infinites would be a better Watch than me explaining it

Well tier 2 feats cant really be quantified with joules like tiers below so I’m not sure how you could quantify the difference in power between those 2 feats

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Closing this now

 

[Ped2018]

Closing this now

Uhhhhh, you good?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I disagree

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I disagree as well, close this thread.