Borderlands Feat Replacement

[The_Impress]

Was just checking files using the Random page button, came across this:

NF calc-Borderlands 2: Quality Hyperion Firearms

vsbattles.fandom.com

Coupla' errors with all these calcs:

• Moonshot Blitzes
  • To understand this, you need to understand our Kinetic Energy Feats Standards, it states:
    • "Speed cannot be used to find KE when there is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.
    • "For example, if a character launches a 200kg metal ball against a common wall at Mach 300, but the wall remains largely undamaged, the energy required to cause the minor damage on the wall would take priority over the kinetic energy derived from speed in this case."
  • Noting all this, the damage done by these moonshots is nowhere close to tier 7, you can look at the clip provided and see the damage done would BARELY be 9-A.
  • In general I don't think this group of characters scale anywhere remotely Tier 7 otherwise, so this can all be an outlier
• Digistructors:
  • These are rejected by the calc member himself
• The BNK3R:
  • Hyperbolic, Unscaleable, Compositing Destructive Yield. Pretty blatantly irrelevant.

I can't find any other feats, and idk the games, so I think these feats need replacement, or the verse is gonezo

 

[The_Impress]

@NotoriouSoda @Kaltias

Can you two input as supporters? :V

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I mean there's a blatant High 6-A feat for Lilith in BL3, but I'm not sure if it should scale to anyone.

 

[The_Impress]

What's the feat :v

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually the Calc Stacking rule about using speed to generate kinetic energy refers to things like throwing an object really fast to tag a fast target, or characters throwing things really far; although throwing objects at great distances is an AP feat in itself for other reasons. But the kinetic energy of a bullet or cannon round was actually included in the list of KE calculations that are okay.

Though, it looks like it's just a ship crashing here. In that case, I agree the calculation is iffy and I rejected similar calculations for other FPS verses for similar reasons yeah. So I do agree the profiles might need a rework.

 

[The_Impress]

This isn't exactly in regards to calc stacking, it's in regards to destructive yield/ke yield discrepancy :v

 

[The_Impress]

Also to note I will go to the deletion thread and get all these files deleted for improper statistics if this thread goes dead for... let's say a week.

So don't be shy in suggesting replacement stats

 

[Sir_Ovens]

This is the feat in question.

But I didn't play 3 so I don't know if it scales to anyone besides Lilith.

 

[The_Impress]

Feat seems legit, though unsure if this is scaleable or no

 

[Mr. Bambu]

As mentioned on Discord, the rule above is contextually case-by-case. As mentioned on Discord you also hold an issue with this based on outlier-dom, which I can't really argue against atm, but the Moonshot should be fine to use in my book.

 

[The_Impress]

I think even noting context, the difference between the destructive yield and KE is laughably different, and I don't see any particular reason KE is more legitimate than the destructive yield, the calc itself notes it's moreso a form of targeted strikes rather than a weapon of mass destruction, latter is what the tier 7 would imply, not to mention the calc presumes they're akin to earthly mortars, which... I straight up don't know where this notion comes from.

Also as noted, you'd have to make the thread to declare this case-by-case because it's listed as general right now :v

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't see any reason why destructive yield is any more legitimate than KE, if I'm honest. So the weapon is intended to refine damage to a finite area- certainly this implies the actual reason for a lack of a massive, steaming crater, no? This is the context I'm talking about, Zark- the intent is high damage to singular entities (or, at least, a very small chunk of area). Not destroying a city. KE is absolutely, 100% usable in this case, in my opinion.

:v :v :v :v :v

 

[The_Impress]

I don't see any reason why destructive yield is any more legitimate than KE, if I'm honest. So the weapon is intended to refine damage to a finite area- certainly this implies the actual reason for a lack of a massive, steaming crater, no? This is the context I'm talking about, Zark- the intent is high damage to singular entities (or, at least, a very small chunk of area). Not destroying a city. KE is absolutely, 100% usable in this case, in my opinion.

Then it would leave a deeper crater as opposed to a wider one, neither seem to be present, the energy doesn't just, dissipate out of existence.

:v :v :v :v :v

v:

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Then it would leave a deeper crater as opposed to a wider one, neither seem to be present, the energy doesn't just, dissipate out of existence.

v:

"The game doesn't create a one-mile crater to satisfy me"

Forgive me, I dislike this. The moonshot is meant to kill targets (and occasionally transport people, I suppose), not destroy land. Your argument here makes no sense.

 

[The_Impress]

"The game doesn't create a one-mile crater to satisfy me"

Forgive me, I dislike this. The moonshot is meant to kill targets (and occasionally transport people, I suppose), not destroy land. Your argument here makes no sense.

If it's solid and follows the laws of physics, it should logically create a crater that should match its hyper-targeted nature (also considerably deaccelarate and reduce its mass upon atmospheric reentry, calc doesn't note this factor).

If it's some pseudo-magical BS that somehow snipes targets without leaving any relevant crater or anything else (we do see its yield when attacking a building, to note), why are we presuming said mechanism works 1-to-1 in regards to KE, when honestly it doesn't show any indication to? The moon-thing does fire energy attacks, this is a series loosey goosey in its realism, it's not that illogical an extension and is as legit as just presuming its solid.

I dislike this logic too, either it shows proof of working with realistic KE or it doesn't, this half-in-half "this logic extends as long as I want it to'" BS is dumb.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oh. All of the things we're talking about on Discord. Alright, real quick knocking off of points covered there, I guess:

- The first bit is just restating what you believe, I feel the whole game mechanics thing I mentioned above fairly counters this. Or at least does so within reason. The "reducing mass" thing is bunk and based on you comparing it to meteorites- manufactured things typically have ablative armor to burn off instead of losing fuckloads of mass.

- What lol? It isn't pseudo-magic, that's not the argument at all.

- Epic. I think it's dumb to say "I demand this video game create a mile-deep crater for their sniper-cannon or else I will scream unto the high heavens about how dumb I think it is!"

 

[The_Impress]

- The first bit is just restating what you believe, I feel the whole game mechanics thing I mentioned above fairly counters this. Or at least does so within reason.

...I mean the example provided in the calc seems like a scripted event, it's in reason to believe at least in THAT scenario a notable crater should've formed

The "reducing mass" thing is bunk and based on you comparing it to meteorites- manufactured things typically have ablative armor to burn off instead of losing fuckloads of mass.

Ablative armor isn't a fraction as prevalent in irl-manufactured things as that, Moonshot Blitzes look like embers when it reaches you, it has to have very prominent ablative armors then, that'll have considerably more amount of mass

- Epic. I think it's dumb to say "I demand this video game create a mile-deep crater for their sniper-cannon or else I will scream unto the high heavens about how dumb I think it is!"

So we're at a dead end rn

In general I think this feat is using alot of presumptions and the destructive yield straight up doesn't match anywhere close to the level of destruction the KE implies, so it should never have been used as the primary scaling calc to be listed

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Tbh Bambu makes good points about the the moonshots, but if y’all continue to discuss and he agrees with the downgrade then I still have some replacement feats lol

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bambu makes more sense to me.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Also even then we can get higher results to the verse Imao cuz of Saturn

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Bambu brings up solid points as usual.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Now that Borderlands finally has some attention Bambu do you think someone can find the weight of Saturn?

Cause it’s goi by to be a huge upgrade for the verse loll

 

[Mr. Bambu]

To be absolutely clear: I think there is an argument to be made about outlier-dom, that largely depends on whether the same feat repeated is grounds for consistency.

If you can get me a good shot for scaling either Saturn or a normal loader bot, then yes, I can calc that.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I mean Saturn only appears in the late game. We could simply make a separate key.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

I mean Saturn only appears in the late game. We could simply make a separate key.

Tbh that’s what I was planning too. Early, Mid, and Late game keys

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Wasn't the Bunk3r stated that it has enough fire power to destroy an entire Country or something?

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Wasn't the Bunk3r stated that it has enough fire power to destroy an entire Country or something?

There are a lot of statements in the Borderlands series that have those type of statements. Problem being that beside 3 we don’t really have any proof for that level of power for these type of feats. There just statements

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that Bambu makes sense.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So Bambu with his god magic did the recalc of the Loaders moonshot feat

So now we having a new calc for end game characters for 2

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping our Mr Bambu.

@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @DMUA @Armorchompy @KieranH10

Would any of you be willing to evaluate the following calculation and then tell us here please?

Borderlands Calc: The Moonshot Revisited

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Oh yeah also have another feat in which a weaken Wilhelm throws a train in which it would most likely be class K. (4:14)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I should note, I have absolutely no idea if Saturn is launched via the Moonshot.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

I should note, I have absolutely no idea if Saturn is launched via the Moonshot.

It was

As soon as you walk into the area and look at Helios you can see it being launched( replayed it just to double check and it was)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Fair, I just personally couldn't recall.

Alright then, continue with your work and godspeed making Borderlands profiles less absolutely shit.

 

[Antvasima]

Armorchompy and KLOL506 have accepted Bambu's calculation. It can probably be used now.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Armorchompy and KLOL506 have accepted Bambu's calculation. It can probably be used now.

First I gotta finish all the profiles and get them up to date.

Then I’ll make a new thread about the scaling of the feat to each character (and among other things like speed and lifting strength)

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Antvasima]

Please remember to carefully read through and follow the instructions in our Common Editing Mistakes page, so no badly structured edits are made, and extensive cleanup work will not be necessary.

If you change the statistics for any characters, also remember to update the tier categories at the bottoms of the profile pages.

Also, when you apply this revision, please insert a link to this thread into the edit summary boxes, so your edits are not mistaken for vandalism.