Thunderman101
He/Him- 3,494
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also agree with thread fra
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Blue Archive High 1-B Downgrade
- Thread starter EinelRendezvous
- Start date
- Status
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- #162
Bump.
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Alright, I see. But still, for any staff looking at this thread I'd like to point out that I am not just arguing that no one scales, but also that even the cosmology itself doesn't scale to High 1-B because the "dimensions" aren't even spatial dimensions/axes to begin with. I argued why I think so here:
But in case you don't believe the wiki archive pages I linked to for whatever reason, here are screenshots from the game showing those quotes (video links are timestamped so they go to the correct timestamp when you click on them):
Here's the context behind Hanako's statement about "infinite dimensions." It should be pretty evident that she's not just talking about a bunch of spatial axes that just exist in the universe because that'd be unrelated to the Ark's restoration of destroyed sanctums via summoning new ones. It makes much more sense for these "dimensions" to be alternate worlds that the Ark summons from because that would actually be relevant rather than Hanako giving random, unrelated cosmology trivia. But that's probably not enough proof on it's own, so:
Here, A.R.O.N.A explains that the Ark's ability to replace things that are destroyed (just like how it replaces Sanctums whenever they are destroyed) works by summoning an "identical copy from another dimension." Obviously this makes no sense if these "dimensions" are spatial axes, since something with entirely different spatial dimensions can't be an "identical copy" nor are spatial dimensions something that a thing can be "from." The "dimension" in question is obviously another world.
Furthermore, it is revealed in this conversation that the Ark's "multi-dimensional analysis ability" is basically the ability to summon copies of things from "another world." From all this it's very clear that when Hanako was talking about the Ark's ability to summon things from the infinite dimensions that exist in the universe, she was talking about alternate worlds. (Note: In Blue Archive, they are considered to be in "the universe" because they "are mixed in an overlapping manner without diverging." Since they don't diverge, they are not separate universes but are overlapping parallel worlds that are all quantum states of the same universe)
On top of all that, we see that the "realm" or "world" that the Underground Dweller resides in is called a "dimension," and when he approached Hoshino from his world he was described as being in a "dimensional overlap." All of this helps set even further precedent for Blue Archive's usage of the word "dimension" as referring to worlds (or more precisely, alternate quantum states) rather than actual spatial axes/dimensions.
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If you aren't already doing it, I would recommend messaging some "knowledgeable staff" on their walls and asking them to evaluate this thread. (list of staff members is of course here). I'll go ahead and do so as well.
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Well, for me, my main argument is that yes, dimension can be argued as another universe in the multiverse rather than the actual dimension
But in that specific instance of the event (when the Ship attempts to breach the barrier by matching its superposition state barrier), when they started referring to it as having an extra Axis would mean more.
cause if they are already in a superposition state to exist across all possible universe, which are universes. But the Ark can somehow add an extra axis when they are both already in that state, which wouldn't make sense if it's just another dimension since they are both already in infinite dimension/universe superposition.
Its ability to bring back itself through other parallel universe or so is a different capability from what is shown with the whole Barrier
But like I initially prefaced, this is the most generous assumption I can think of for the verse. And it's up to the mods if they agree with this or not
But in that specific instance of the event (when the Ship attempts to breach the barrier by matching its superposition state barrier), when they started referring to it as having an extra Axis would mean more.
cause if they are already in a superposition state to exist across all possible universe, which are universes. But the Ark can somehow add an extra axis when they are both already in that state, which wouldn't make sense if it's just another dimension since they are both already in infinite dimension/universe superposition.
Its ability to bring back itself through other parallel universe or so is a different capability from what is shown with the whole Barrier
But like I initially prefaced, this is the most generous assumption I can think of for the verse. And it's up to the mods if they agree with this or not
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- Thread starter
- #166
Thank you so much for your help. You had provide a clearer evidences as well.
Thunderman101
He/Him- 3,494
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yuta is a ***** ass bum
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jujutsu kaisen being dragged over in the big 2026
Thunderman101
He/Him- 3,494
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Yuta when he has ti fight without rika and the mega isreal beam
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no unnecessary derailing please
ExcelsisBerny
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Bump
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I still don't know why people just ignoring the scan that literally say Ark can create new axis with the 3D and 2D comparison scan, and that dimension can be both different world/universe and spatial dimension at the same time
But anyway, the High 1-B scaling on the profile should go regardless
But anyway, the High 1-B scaling on the profile should go regardless
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,678
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So, you do agree with the High 1-B scale, but just that very few characters actually scale to it, correct?
I agree with that. I have no idea why every random student is High 1-B, the scaling looks really flawed.
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I think the hyper fixation on usage of dimension is a bit weird and destroys any nuance. Imagine in a series they say there is 26 spatial dimensions, then in another unrelated context they use dimensions to refer to parallel worlds. Wouldn't it be absurd to think it only refers to one or the other? Multidimensionality is also within the same context as the axis stuff so yea high 1-B at least exists even if scaling is debatable.
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Idk about the verse i can't say anything about who could possibly scale, other than Chroma from what i saw about it
But anyway, at worst, the totality of cosmology should be possibly/likely High 1-B
ExcelsisBerny
She/Her- 1,678
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If the High 1-B is accepted, then the discussion should shift to the scaling
I am not very knowledgeable about the verse either but honestly the High 1-B looks legit.
I am not very knowledgeable about the verse either but honestly the High 1-B looks legit.
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The opposition's arguments are more convincing to me. So I disagree with the thread and still support High 1-B.
But as others said, the scaling was applied really sloppily. I even said on the upgrade thread that it would have been better to create a new thread to handle the scaling, but it looks like that was skipped over...
But as others said, the scaling was applied really sloppily. I even said on the upgrade thread that it would have been better to create a new thread to handle the scaling, but it looks like that was skipped over...
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- #178
So are you saying, you're leaning on them having High 1-B cosmology but no one scales to it? Because in this case, I don't see Chroma having such power to control the whole Infinite Dimensions. In the same story, Phrenepates is direct carrier of Chroma afterall.
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- #179
On which part, are you saying they're scaled to High 1-B?
LoudestProcedure
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Genuinely every scales to it because even the fodder characters like momoi (a complete bum) was able to damage someone who is basically the strongest character currently
ExcelsisBerny
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Then that character is not High 1-B physically to begin with.
Why are we presupposing that being empowered by a higher dimensional energy to an unspecified extent makes you scale to that dimensionality?
I honestly do not get the logic of the scaling at all.
LoudestProcedure
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She wasn't being buffed though she was genuinely just shooting and hurting terror shiroko alongside everyone else
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Also, no one ignoring that. I've been explaining it over and over again.
As for the “new axis” point, it still correlates directly with the numerical calculation value. Himari herself openly states that their plan failed because the Ark of Atrahasis altered the “value” (their computational parameters), making everything inaccurate.
The evidence I’m referring to comes from Volume EX Chapter 2 Episode 11, with the full context here.
It always comes down to the "calculation" value of the Students to so they could penetrate the Ark's barrier with the same technology. Not because they were in a higher dimension.
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so rn its one staff that agrees with possibly and one that fully agrees with H1B?
Edit: After seeing this current args am leaning more towards disagree ngl
Edit: After seeing this current args am leaning more towards disagree ngl
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- #185
Yeah, but for the scaling? Seems lackey about it.
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Someone needs to do an actual CRT justifing the H1B, which is like chroma and ark rn
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Like i said idk much about the verse aside from meme and some basic waifu info things, but wasn't Chroma is said to, you knows, kinda like transcends everything in the verse?.
Also you don't need having that kind of explicit statement of character A can controls infinite dimensions to scales. If contexts and statements can imply such power then it is enough
No, from what i saw, Phrenepates only act as a pseudo-medium that exercise Chroma will on the world, not he carrying the literal "Chroma" itself, and having blessed or buffed by it doesn't mean Phrenepates = Chroma, that is absurb logic unless you have direct eveidence suggest that
They didn't said anything about axis here?. They was mostly talking about Multidimensional Barrier and the Quantum Superposition, and the chabging value is talking about the Ark's state which mean its Quantum Superposition state.
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Chroma has this statment, '' described as a dream in relation to The Chroma, where as everything below it is merely a dream, with it's discovery of Kivitos being described as peeping "through a window in a dream"'' so like deadass u could
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I don't think that can be applied that way. Since Chroma is said to be a being that eats mysteries in Kivotos.
I mean, the context they mention "2D to 3D" was in the same event they tried to bypass the Ark's barrier using the said Quantum Superposition/Dimensional technology. So wouldn't it be make more sense, they never reffer such thing to higher dimensions? Unless the oppositions have more evidences to support.
Rin: Therefore, we plan to pass through the barrier by putting Utnapishtim's Ship in the same quantum superposition state.
Himari: But ultimately, that approach method failed because the Ark of Atrahasis changed the entire value of the state itself.
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That's a garbage analogy. There is literally zero context suggesting that Hanako was talking about spatial dimensions in this scan.
Spatial axes being mentioned in the same scenario as "multidimensionality" doesn't mean that multidimensionality actually refers to spatial axes. I don't think I have to explain why that is a non sequitur.
How does any of that prove that Hanako was talking about spatial dimensions when she mentioned there being "infinite dimensions"? I already showed that in the specific context of Hanako talking about the Ark's ability to summon copies of things such as Sanctums, which is the exact same context in which Hanako was talking about "infinite dimensions", it is pretty clearly shown that "dimensions" in that specific context refers to worlds rather than spatial dimensions. Meanwhile there is zero context showing that it refers to spatial dimensionality. It's a huge logical leap to go from "the Ark increased the number of spatial axes in the multidimensionality" to "the multidimensionality is literally just a bunch of spatial axes."
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@Qawsedf234
It seems like you were going to give a final evaluation here. Are you willing to do so please?
It seems like you were going to give a final evaluation here. Are you willing to do so please?
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That's more like Plot Inducement Stupidity (PIS) tbh
OnlyonethatEXIST
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Everything in blue archive is Plot Stupidity
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IRL stuff got in the way so I never ended up commenting.
Going through it all my main issues is that the franchises uses "Spatial Dimension" and "Alternate Dimension" interchangeably at times, and the Chaos Space for an infinite dimensional shield was never established as being of large enough size. I think they'd still qualify for Higher-Dimensional Existence, but in terms of AP I'm currently not seeing them staying at High 1-B.
So I agree with that aspect of the OP.
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Well in that case, by our standards, Chaos Space would possess a High 1-B shield, which is where the scaling is coming from for the Ark.
So it comes down to whether the shields are breached in a way that gives AP. Going by this statement:
If they just required to be in the same superposition to breach the shields, they really wouldn't need to do it via AP in the same way breaking a forcefield would require an AP advantage.
So I'm still not entirely sure if people would scale to the High 1-B rating, though the High 1-B rating would exist in-universe in some capacity.
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Doesn't this invalidate the High 1-B scaling though? If the verse uses "dimension" both for "spatial dimensions" and "alternate dimensions," that introduces ambiguity whenever the word "dimensions" is used. Thus, we would need additional context to determine whether "dimension" refers to "spatial dimensions" or "alternate dimensions" in any given usage.
In my post here, I demonstrated that the context of Hanako's statement mentioning infinite dimensions specifically is referring to the Ark's "multidimensional analysis" ability to summon copies of things, and I also specifically demonstrated that this ability that Hanako was talking about is related to "alternate dimensions" specifically, not "spatial dimensions." And no one has given any context even remotely implying that "dimension" in this case refers to "spatial dimensions" at all other than them both being mentioned in the same scenario. But that obviously doesn't imply that "dimension" actually refers to spatial dimensions because a word and a concept being mentioned in the same scenario obviously doesn't mean that the word refers to said concept. That's just a non sequitur.
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Is it okay if we remove the High 1-B scaling from almost everyone, and keep it as "possibly" for the Chroma? Since no one actually really scales to those Infinite Dimensions structure, even Chroma itself is debateable for that.
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Thank you for the input. I guess Vietthai also gave a similar input. I think we can conclude the thread. And here are the changes that can be applied:
1. Possibly/Likely High 1-B for Cosmology
2. Remove the entire scaling from the previous High 1-B upgrade for most of characters
3. Keeping the possibly rating for Chroma itself
4. Changing the High 1-B of Ark/Aris into more of Quantum and Dimensional Manipulation
Are these okay?
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