- 2,433
- 412
Alright, yall know the fudging drill. Several updates have come out since the last time the profiles were updates, we've new game mechanics, and a whole lot more. So let's just dive into this mess.
New Keys
Paragons Key (Dart Monkey, Boomerang Monkey, Ninja Monkey)
Bloonarius BTD6
General Profile Maintenance
Bloons RBE Revisions
Now for the hardest-hitting revision. Been told the Bloon’s RBE multipliers need to get nuked. Personally I think AP should stay as RBE directly affects how much damage the Bloons do, but whatever.
Any rubber Bloon (i.e. everything below Lead + Zebra and Rainbow) will now downscale from the Dart Monkey’s 1058.84 joules as Dart Monkeys, assuming they can land a shot, are capable of popping any of them.
Lead Bloons should still downscale from Ring of Fire's 1.91e+6 joules as that’s the weakest tower that can pop them, and we can’t use a Bloon’s resistances to scale them as Bloons can withstand resisted attacks past Large Island level. Ceramic should also stay the same, as Ceramics rely on an actual health system which makes them more durable than Leads which only require one hit.
As for MOAB-Class Bloons… Well… MOABs will remain unaffected as they just upscale from Leads. Everything else on the other hand is gonna be getting some nerfs.
Previously we scaled the BFBs to Obyn's Wall of Trees ability as the Kraken variant is implied to actually bash the Bloons rather than just erase them. However, I’ve now been told this should no longer be used. Meaning we’ll be putting the MOAB-Class Bloons back to upscaling from Leads, given they follow a health system akin to Ceramics. The ZOMG and above will not be receiving changes to their Sun Avatar-Sun Temple scaling as those have not been affected.
Also, following the statement that Bloonarius and other Boss Bloons could be considered Bloon gods, as well as the fact that the Vengeful True Sun God and I thought it would be best to just scale them by the Large Island/Country level calcs as it not only make sense contextually but will also be infinitely easier to read through on profiles. I’ve wanted to fix the BMC boss profiles anyways, so now’s the perfect time. 10,000 HP will be the cutoff point between the two calcs. Similarly, I will also be cutting off scaling the Boss Bloons to the BAD after reaching 50,000 HP due to the fact that the only towers capable of contending at that level (i.e. Vengeful True Sun God and Paragon Towers) are far beyond fighting a single unboosted BAD, fortified or not. Since Bloons Monkey City follows a different health system, they will have these 4 health tiers: Level 1, Highest level Pre-10,000 HP, Highest level Pre-50,000 HP, Max Level. As for the BTD6 boss tiering, that's something that should 100% be discussed, as idk how to go about it.
And of course, this means towers are getting changed again as well, given they rely on scaling.
Similarly, Obyn will need to receive a note stating the calculated AP does not apply to combat.
So, since the entire verse’s tiers will be getting revised, why not knock another much-needed revision out of the way simultaneously?
Tower Speed Revisions
Alright, alright. This has been a long time coming.
Currently, Bloons TD has three speed levels:
Unknown: Bloons that move closer to x0.1 Red Speed (i.e. BADs and Bloonarius)
Transonic: Boomerang Monkey’s Sonic Boom upgrade, Bloons that move at x2 Red Speed (i.e. White & Rainbow Bloons) can dodge said attacks
Hypersonic: BTD6 Super Monkey Description, Bloons that move at x3.5 Red Speed (i.e. Pink Bloons and DDTs) can dodge said attacks
These need to be adjusted as most of the monkeys are stuck at Transonic despite being able to hit Pink Bloons consistently.
To test the speed of the towers, I tried to compare them to the Pink Bloons. In theory, if they were able to hit the pink Bloons consistently, they should be Hypersonic. However, this proved harder to test reliably than I initially expected. Many monkeys have attacks that either travel in weird patterns or have massive AoE. Not to mention the monkey’s placement in relation to the track as well as the track’s shape have a massive effect on whether towers can hit certain bloons more easily.
I thought maybe I could check the Bloons wiki to see if they listed projectile travel speed, but that turned out to be a bust. I also tried comparing the Attack Speed values, but those are used to compare how long of a gap there is between a towers’ attacks, so it doesn’t gauge well as, for example, Sniper Monkeys, which can hit any Bloon type regardless of speed, is one of the slower towers to reload.
My first test, of course, was to double check that Super Monkey’s relation with the pink Bloons still held some ground. And… of course it doesn’t. Regardless of the stage I tested, Super Monkey was consistently able to hit to the Pink Bloon. However, they seem to travel at a similar enough speed that I don’t really care about the inconsistency. Regardless, the main problem, as I described earlier, was testing other monkeys. With the differences in projectile path, projectile size, and AoE, it’s not really possible to get a clear-cut comparison.
So whatever. I decided to test the towers on Town Center, by placing them towards the bottom left so that their circle of range would only just cover the track. I knew for towers with smaller range this meant they would have an easier time attacking pinks, but it doesn’t matter. In the end, the only tower that consistently struggled to hit the Pink Bloons was the Monkey Buccaneers. I’d tested it on Downstream since it gave a better parallel line and even then it struggled to hit yellow bloons when not upgraded, much less pink. However, as our profiles start their base tier as a 2/2/2, I had to test that as well. Even then the Buccaneer was only able to hit the Pink Bloons thanks to the upgrades that gave it multiple projectiles. Mortar Monkey also struggled to hit the Pink Bloons, but that’s more due to timing than the monkey’s personal speeds. Even then, the mortars move FAR faster than Pink Bloons, so the scaling should be fine. As for Heroes and other irregular towers, Striker Jones and Etienne were the only ones who struggled. Despite both having upgrades to their Attack Speed, neither were able to hit the Pink Bloon as, again Attack Speed gauges how quickly they attack in succession and not the speed of their projectiles. Well, Etienne was, but that was if his drones were already sitting on the track. If they were off the track, but still in range to attack, they consistently missed.
So, excluding those exceptions, I believe the towers’ base tier speeds (as well as the Pink Bloon and DDT) should be changed to “At least Transonic, possibly Hypersonic”, Monkey Buccaneer & Etienne should be “At least Transonic, likely higher”, and Sniper Monkey & Super Monkey should be purely “Hypersonic”.
Something else I’d been thinking about is upgrading certain towers to the Speed of Light, but that would need to be discussed.We already treat the Sun Avatar’s attacks as solar power when calcing the their AP, so it makes sense it should be treated as such for speed as well. Top that off with Sentai Churchill’s MOAB Barrage being stated to be light speed and I’d say it’s alright.
edit: Following Smashor's recommendations, Adora's Ball of Light and the Dartling Gunner's Ray of Doom might be able to be Light Speed. Sun Avatar + won't get added as they are plasma attacks and Sentai Churchill's is questionable at best.
Probably important entities to make profiles for
Dreadbloon & Blastapopoulos
Can be found on an old blog. Will need to be updated but otherwise should be fine to add
Bloons Super Monkey Bosses
Can be found on the above mentioned blog. Less necessary but probably still interesting to include.the Bloons Super Monkey Super Monkey profile really needs to be fixed
Gravelord Lych
New Keys
Paragons Key (Dart Monkey, Boomerang Monkey, Ninja Monkey)
Degree 1 can get to Round 138 on longer stages
Degree 100 can get past Round 150
All base abilities except Explosion Manipulation, Cyborgization (Partial), Fusion (Upon appearing on-stage, absorbs all Dart Monkeys on screen to boost their strength, Unfuses when done), Reactive Power Level (Deals extra damage to Boss Bloons), Plasma Manipulation and Danmaku, Explosion Manipulation, Resistance to Time Stop (Is not slowed down by the player’s Time Stop ability) and Statistics Amplification (Paragons are unable to be buffed outside of their initial sacrifices)
Apex Plasma Master: This Paragon’s mech fires plasma juggernaut balls, which split into extra juggernaut balls
Degree 100 can get past Round 150
All base abilities except Explosion Manipulation, Cyborgization (Partial), Fusion (Upon appearing on-stage, absorbs all Dart Monkeys on screen to boost their strength, Unfuses when done), Reactive Power Level (Deals extra damage to Boss Bloons), Plasma Manipulation and Danmaku, Explosion Manipulation, Resistance to Time Stop (Is not slowed down by the player’s Time Stop ability) and Statistics Amplification (Paragons are unable to be buffed outside of their initial sacrifices)
Apex Plasma Master: This Paragon’s mech fires plasma juggernaut balls, which split into extra juggernaut balls
Degree 1 can get past Round 135 on larger maps
Degree 100 can get to Round 170
All base abilities except Heat Manipulation, Cyborgization (Partial), Enhanced Senses and Non-Physical Interaction (Can target and attack Camo Bloons), Fusion (Upon appearing on-stage, absorbs all Boomerang Monkeys on screen to boost their strength, Unfuses when done), Reactive Power Level (Deals extra damage to Boss Bloons), Homing Attack, Limited Gravity manipulation (Creates 3 glaives which orbit around itself), Resistance Negation (Glaive Lord's three orbiting glaives can destroy Lead Bloons, despite their traditional immunity to sharp objects), Explosion Manipulation, Resistance to Time Stop (Is not slowed down by the player’s Time Stop ability) and Statistics Amplification (Paragons are unable to be buffed outside of their initial sacrifices)
Glaive Dominus: Throws high-speed, ricocheting glaives as well as occasional heavy, exploding, knockback glaives at blimps + has three glaives orbiting around itself
Degree 100 can get to Round 170
All base abilities except Heat Manipulation, Cyborgization (Partial), Enhanced Senses and Non-Physical Interaction (Can target and attack Camo Bloons), Fusion (Upon appearing on-stage, absorbs all Boomerang Monkeys on screen to boost their strength, Unfuses when done), Reactive Power Level (Deals extra damage to Boss Bloons), Homing Attack, Limited Gravity manipulation (Creates 3 glaives which orbit around itself), Resistance Negation (Glaive Lord's three orbiting glaives can destroy Lead Bloons, despite their traditional immunity to sharp objects), Explosion Manipulation, Resistance to Time Stop (Is not slowed down by the player’s Time Stop ability) and Statistics Amplification (Paragons are unable to be buffed outside of their initial sacrifices)
Glaive Dominus: Throws high-speed, ricocheting glaives as well as occasional heavy, exploding, knockback glaives at blimps + has three glaives orbiting around itself
Degree 75 can get past Round 200 on larger maps
Degree 100 is capable of doing the same
All base abilities except Mind Manipulation, Power Nullification, and Duplication, Enhanced Senses and Non-Physical Interaction (Can target and attack Camo Bloons), Fusion (Upon appearing on-stage, absorbs all Boomerang Monkeys on screen to boost their strength, Unfuses when done), Reactive Power Level (Deals extra damage to Boss Bloons), Statistics Reduction (Halves the speed of all Bloons up to BADs and Boss Bloons), minor Gravity Manipulation and Smoke Manipulation (Has green smoke and flower petals circling around it at all times. Degree 100 has cards floating around as well), Resistance to Time Stop (Is not slowed down by the player’s Time Stop ability) and Statistics Amplification (Paragons are unable to be buffed outside of their initial sacrifices)
Ascended Shadow is an ascended master in all disciplines of Ninjutsu: Martial Arts (Should be at least knowledgeable in daken-taijutsu, jutai-jutsu, and taihenjutsu), Superior Weapon Mastery (Should be a master with swords, bo staffs, throwing stars, spears, halberds, and chain and sickle combat), Superior Stealth Mastery. Also some intelligence feats given the various strategy and battleground tactics found within Ninjutsu disciplines
Ascended Shadow throws homing shurikens and bombs that release more homing shurikens. Occasionally, they also throw sticky card bombs at MOAB Class Bloons for extra damage to Boss Bloons
Degree 100 is capable of doing the same
All base abilities except Mind Manipulation, Power Nullification, and Duplication, Enhanced Senses and Non-Physical Interaction (Can target and attack Camo Bloons), Fusion (Upon appearing on-stage, absorbs all Boomerang Monkeys on screen to boost their strength, Unfuses when done), Reactive Power Level (Deals extra damage to Boss Bloons), Statistics Reduction (Halves the speed of all Bloons up to BADs and Boss Bloons), minor Gravity Manipulation and Smoke Manipulation (Has green smoke and flower petals circling around it at all times. Degree 100 has cards floating around as well), Resistance to Time Stop (Is not slowed down by the player’s Time Stop ability) and Statistics Amplification (Paragons are unable to be buffed outside of their initial sacrifices)
Ascended Shadow is an ascended master in all disciplines of Ninjutsu: Martial Arts (Should be at least knowledgeable in daken-taijutsu, jutai-jutsu, and taihenjutsu), Superior Weapon Mastery (Should be a master with swords, bo staffs, throwing stars, spears, halberds, and chain and sickle combat), Superior Stealth Mastery. Also some intelligence feats given the various strategy and battleground tactics found within Ninjutsu disciplines
Ascended Shadow throws homing shurikens and bombs that release more homing shurikens. Occasionally, they also throw sticky card bombs at MOAB Class Bloons for extra damage to Boss Bloons
Large Size should be upgraded: (Type 2; Is comparable in size to the BAD)
Weather Manipulation (Bloonarius’ sheer size creates localized storm systems), Summoning (Summons swarms of Bloons after reaching certain amounts of health), Resistances of the BAD + Immunity to percentage damage (damage over time), instant health reduction (i.e. MOAB Hex and Grand Saboteur, and Black Hole Manipulation (Is unaffected by Legend of the Night’s Black Hole ability
Not really sure how to go about listing the tiers. 5 tiers + 5 Elite tiers is a lot to have on one page. The health values vary based on how many players there are, which will be discussed later in the Bloons RBE revision
A Degree 44 Glaive Dominus and a Degree 79 Apex Plasma Master were barely able to beat Tier 5 Elite Bloonarius with help
Tiers 1-3 move at 5% Red Bloon speed, Tiers 4 & 5 move at 6% Red Bloon Speed
Weather Manipulation (Bloonarius’ sheer size creates localized storm systems), Summoning (Summons swarms of Bloons after reaching certain amounts of health), Resistances of the BAD + Immunity to percentage damage (damage over time), instant health reduction (i.e. MOAB Hex and Grand Saboteur, and Black Hole Manipulation (Is unaffected by Legend of the Night’s Black Hole ability
Not really sure how to go about listing the tiers. 5 tiers + 5 Elite tiers is a lot to have on one page. The health values vary based on how many players there are, which will be discussed later in the Bloons RBE revision
A Degree 44 Glaive Dominus and a Degree 79 Apex Plasma Master were barely able to beat Tier 5 Elite Bloonarius with help
Tiers 1-3 move at 5% Red Bloon speed, Tiers 4 & 5 move at 6% Red Bloon Speed
General Profile Maintenance
All Towers
Prehensile tails are back. Also confirmation monkeys can use their feet as efficiently as their hands
Monkeys can walk on clouds
I also want to change the name of the towers’ “Base” key to “Base (2/2/2)” since it’s been something questioned multiple times on vs threads
Striker Jones can survive being shot from his rocket launcher, helping prove monkeys can survive their own attacks
Dart Monkey
4 And 4 Monkey Knowledge allows Triple Shot to throw a 4th dart every 4th shot
Bomb Shooter
Fraggy Frags Monkey Knowledge causes Frag Bombs to create two extra fragments
Super Monkey
Super Monkey’s batman upgrades’ suits are made of neoprene, which has chemical resistant properties
True Sun God Level 150 link
Vengeful True Sun God Level 200 link
Vengeful True Sun God can destroy Tier 5 Bloonarius
A fully buffed Vengeful True Sun God is supposedly capable of unleashing a “cosmic rebalancing” capable of ending “all current existence” as well as creating “forces that inevitably fill the such voids it created in the first place. That same blog states that the Monkeyverse is an infinitely sized multiverse, meaning that at its peak, the Vengeful True Sun God likely has the potential to destroy all of it. The only reason they do not unleash such power is because they too have rules they must follow
Boomerang Monkey
Glaive Richochet should have Peppermints listed and other paths should have Candy Cane 'Rangs as well
Glue Gunner
More Splatty Glue Monkey Knowledge allows Glue Splatter to coat up to 8 Bloons per shot
Monkey Buccaneer
Watercraft should have a resistance to acid thanks to Double Double Cross
Big Bunch Monkey Knowledge causes Grape Shot to fire 6 grapes
Wizard Monkey
Dragon's Breath can instead throw fireworks
Dartling Gun
Robo Monkey and Ray of Doom are powered by the same crystals, which possess an ability similar to Technological Terror’s Bloon Annihilation, meaning Ray of Doom might be as powerful as Robo Monkey
Sniper Monkey
Ceramic Shock Monkey Knowledge causes Sniper Monkey to stun Ceramic Bloons for 2 seconds
Ninja Monkey
Don’t know why they don’t have Homing Attack listed in abilities, but that should be added.
Deadly Tranquillity Monkey Knowledge allows Bloonjitsu and Grandmaster Ninja to throw an extra shuriken
Monkey Engineer
Sentry Paragon helped create the Paragon upgrades
Bloons Trap and XXXL Trap now have access to anti-Vampbloon coffins, Cleansing Foam now has access to garlic, Sprockets now has access to wooden stakes
Sentry Paragon stuff needs to be changed since it was renamed
Heli Pilot
Helicopters can carry statues on Chutes and Rake
Monkey Sub
Watercraft should have a resistance to acid thanks to Double Double Cross
Quad Burst Monkey Knowledge causes Airburst Darts to split into 4 mini-darts
Wizard Lord
Wizard Lord was responsible for Cracked
Similarly, he likely also created Lightning Scar given it’s his home map and may also be responsible for Scorched Earth
Wizard Lord is in need of some ability additions. Magic plasma blasts can bounce around in BATTD. Homing Attack in BSM2
Quincy
Quincy is the most athletic of the Heroes
Gwendolin
Gwen Fireball allows Gwen to engulf herself in flames and teleport
Ezili
Ezili Glyph Materialization should have teleportation + a link
Adora
Blood Sacrifice can buff herself and nearby Sun Avatars and above
Need to add a link for Adora Sunbeam
Adora can seemingly change her color to fit her mood: limited Body Control?
Sauda
Needs her new Viking skin added
Bloons, Golden Bloon, MOAB Class Bloons, Bloonarius, Vortex[/URL]
Bloons are capable of entering computers (Track 7, Track 8)
Bloons are smart enough to use cages
Lead and Ceramic Bloons fly thanks to strong helium
Not a new ability, but Purple Bloons are specifically made of anti-magic rubber
ZOMG should have this link on its profile for size
BAD is no longer immune to Time Stop. Now they’re just resistant like other Bloons, since they still move at 10% speed in stopped time
Level 20 Bloonarius can stand up to the Vengeful Sun Temple
Boss Bloons keeps being resurrected and are enhanced to fight at higher levels
The Player (Bloons Tower Defense)
Summons tier should be adjusted
Misc
Portable Lakes are made of pierce-resistant rubber
Heroes + Wizard Lord aren’t immune to being sacrificed, rather they’re just spared
Some Heroes, such as ET.N, are from alternate realities
Etienne built Sentai Churchill’s Sci-fi Drone
Striker Jones has a parachute
Prehensile tails are back. Also confirmation monkeys can use their feet as efficiently as their hands
Monkeys can walk on clouds
I also want to change the name of the towers’ “Base” key to “Base (2/2/2)” since it’s been something questioned multiple times on vs threads
Striker Jones can survive being shot from his rocket launcher, helping prove monkeys can survive their own attacks
Dart Monkey
4 And 4 Monkey Knowledge allows Triple Shot to throw a 4th dart every 4th shot
Bomb Shooter
Fraggy Frags Monkey Knowledge causes Frag Bombs to create two extra fragments
Super Monkey
Super Monkey’s batman upgrades’ suits are made of neoprene, which has chemical resistant properties
True Sun God Level 150 link
Vengeful True Sun God Level 200 link
Vengeful True Sun God can destroy Tier 5 Bloonarius
A fully buffed Vengeful True Sun God is supposedly capable of unleashing a “cosmic rebalancing” capable of ending “all current existence” as well as creating “forces that inevitably fill the such voids it created in the first place. That same blog states that the Monkeyverse is an infinitely sized multiverse, meaning that at its peak, the Vengeful True Sun God likely has the potential to destroy all of it. The only reason they do not unleash such power is because they too have rules they must follow
Boomerang Monkey
Glaive Richochet should have Peppermints listed and other paths should have Candy Cane 'Rangs as well
Glue Gunner
More Splatty Glue Monkey Knowledge allows Glue Splatter to coat up to 8 Bloons per shot
Monkey Buccaneer
Big Bunch Monkey Knowledge causes Grape Shot to fire 6 grapes
Wizard Monkey
Dragon's Breath can instead throw fireworks
Dartling Gun
Robo Monkey and Ray of Doom are powered by the same crystals, which possess an ability similar to Technological Terror’s Bloon Annihilation, meaning Ray of Doom might be as powerful as Robo Monkey
Sniper Monkey
Ceramic Shock Monkey Knowledge causes Sniper Monkey to stun Ceramic Bloons for 2 seconds
Ninja Monkey
Don’t know why they don’t have Homing Attack listed in abilities, but that should be added.
Deadly Tranquillity Monkey Knowledge allows Bloonjitsu and Grandmaster Ninja to throw an extra shuriken
Monkey Engineer
Sentry Paragon helped create the Paragon upgrades
Bloons Trap and XXXL Trap now have access to anti-Vampbloon coffins, Cleansing Foam now has access to garlic, Sprockets now has access to wooden stakes
Sentry Paragon stuff needs to be changed since it was renamed
Heli Pilot
Helicopters can carry statues on Chutes and Rake
Monkey Sub
Quad Burst Monkey Knowledge causes Airburst Darts to split into 4 mini-darts
Wizard Lord
Wizard Lord was responsible for Cracked
Similarly, he likely also created Lightning Scar given it’s his home map and may also be responsible for Scorched Earth
Wizard Lord is in need of some ability additions. Magic plasma blasts can bounce around in BATTD. Homing Attack in BSM2
Quincy
Quincy is the most athletic of the Heroes
Gwendolin
Gwen Fireball allows Gwen to engulf herself in flames and teleport
Ezili
Ezili Glyph Materialization should have teleportation + a link
Adora
Blood Sacrifice can buff herself and nearby Sun Avatars and above
Need to add a link for Adora Sunbeam
Adora can seemingly change her color to fit her mood: limited Body Control?
Sauda
Needs her new Viking skin added
Bloons, Golden Bloon, MOAB Class Bloons, Bloonarius, Vortex[/URL]
Bloons are capable of entering computers (Track 7, Track 8)
Bloons are smart enough to use cages
Lead and Ceramic Bloons fly thanks to strong helium
Not a new ability, but Purple Bloons are specifically made of anti-magic rubber
ZOMG should have this link on its profile for size
BAD is no longer immune to Time Stop. Now they’re just resistant like other Bloons, since they still move at 10% speed in stopped time
Level 20 Bloonarius can stand up to the Vengeful Sun Temple
Boss Bloons keeps being resurrected and are enhanced to fight at higher levels
The Player (Bloons Tower Defense)
Summons tier should be adjusted
Misc
Portable Lakes are made of pierce-resistant rubber
Heroes + Wizard Lord aren’t immune to being sacrificed, rather they’re just spared
Some Heroes, such as ET.N, are from alternate realities
Etienne built Sentai Churchill’s Sci-fi Drone
Striker Jones has a parachute
Bloons RBE Revisions
Now for the hardest-hitting revision. Been told the Bloon’s RBE multipliers need to get nuked. Personally I think AP should stay as RBE directly affects how much damage the Bloons do, but whatever.
Any rubber Bloon (i.e. everything below Lead + Zebra and Rainbow) will now downscale from the Dart Monkey’s 1058.84 joules as Dart Monkeys, assuming they can land a shot, are capable of popping any of them.
Lead Bloons should still downscale from Ring of Fire's 1.91e+6 joules as that’s the weakest tower that can pop them, and we can’t use a Bloon’s resistances to scale them as Bloons can withstand resisted attacks past Large Island level. Ceramic should also stay the same, as Ceramics rely on an actual health system which makes them more durable than Leads which only require one hit.
As for MOAB-Class Bloons… Well… MOABs will remain unaffected as they just upscale from Leads. Everything else on the other hand is gonna be getting some nerfs.
Previously we scaled the BFBs to Obyn's Wall of Trees ability as the Kraken variant is implied to actually bash the Bloons rather than just erase them. However, I’ve now been told this should no longer be used. Meaning we’ll be putting the MOAB-Class Bloons back to upscaling from Leads, given they follow a health system akin to Ceramics. The ZOMG and above will not be receiving changes to their Sun Avatar-Sun Temple scaling as those have not been affected.
Also, following the statement that Bloonarius and other Boss Bloons could be considered Bloon gods, as well as the fact that the Vengeful True Sun God and I thought it would be best to just scale them by the Large Island/Country level calcs as it not only make sense contextually but will also be infinitely easier to read through on profiles. I’ve wanted to fix the BMC boss profiles anyways, so now’s the perfect time. 10,000 HP will be the cutoff point between the two calcs. Similarly, I will also be cutting off scaling the Boss Bloons to the BAD after reaching 50,000 HP due to the fact that the only towers capable of contending at that level (i.e. Vengeful True Sun God and Paragon Towers) are far beyond fighting a single unboosted BAD, fortified or not. Since Bloons Monkey City follows a different health system, they will have these 4 health tiers: Level 1, Highest level Pre-10,000 HP, Highest level Pre-50,000 HP, Max Level. As for the BTD6 boss tiering, that's something that should 100% be discussed, as idk how to go about it.
And of course, this means towers are getting changed again as well, given they rely on scaling.
- MOABs (200 HP): 3.821e+8 Joules / 0.0913 tons (Small Building level)
- Fortified: 7.643e+8 Joules / 0.1826 tons (Small Building level)
- BFBs (700 HP): 1.337e+9 Joules / 0.3196 tons (Building level)
- Fortified: 2.675e+9 Joules / 0.6392 tons (Building level)
- ZOMGs (4000 HP): At least 7.642e+9 Joules / 1.8264 tons (Building level), possibly 8.178e+20 Joules / 195.466 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- Fortified: 1.528e+10 Joules / 3.6528 tons (Building level), possibly 1.636e+21 Joules / 390.932 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- DDTs (400 HP): 7.643e+8 Joules / 0.1826 tons (Small Building level)
- Fortified: 1.528e+9 Joules / 0.3653 tons (Building level)
- BADs (20,000 HP): At least 3.821e+10 Joules / 9.1319 tons (Large Building level), possibly 2.991e+22 Joules / 7.148 Teratons (Country level)
- Fortified: 7.642e+10 Joules / 18.2637 tons (City Block level), possibly 5.981e+22 Joules / 14.297 Teratons (Country level)
- Level 1 (2000 HP): 4.089e+20 Joules / 97.733 Gigatons (Island level)
- Level 4 (8000 HP): 1.636e+21 Joules / 390.932 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- Level 11 (48,000 HP): 7.178e+22 Joules / 17.156 Teratons (Country level)
- Level 26 (882,000 HP): Much Higher
- Level 1 (900 HP): 1.840e+20 Joules / 43.980 Gigatons (Island level)
- Level 8 (9900 HP): 2.024e+21 Joules / 483.779 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- Level 14 (48,600 HP): 7.268e+22 Joules / 17.371 Teratons (Country level)
- Level 25 (349,200 HP): Much Higher
- Level 1 (100 HP): 4.089e+20 Joules / 97.733 Gigatons (Island level)
- Shield (100 HP): 2.045e+19 Joules / 4.887 Gigatons (Island level)
- Level 9 (9000 HP): 1.840e+21 Joules / 439.799 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- Shield (900 HP): 1.840e+20 Joules / 43.980 Gigatons (Island level)
- Level 16 (42,500 HP): 6.356e+22 Joules / 15.190 Teratons (Country level)
- Shield (2560 HP): 5.234e+20 Joules / 125.098 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- Level 26 (220,500 HP): Much Higher
- Shield (6760 HP): 1.382e+20 Joules / 330.338 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- Level 1 (2000 HP): 4.089e+20 Joules / 97.733 Gigatons (Island level)
- Level 4 (8000 HP): 1.636e+21 Joules / 390.932 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- Level 11 (48,000 HP): 7.178e+22 Joules / 17.156 Teratons (Country level)
- Level 26 (776,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 1 (20,000 HP): 2.991e+22 Joules / 7.148 Teratons (Country level)
- Tier 2 (75,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 3 (350,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 4 (750,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 5 (3,000,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 1 (50,000 HP): 7.477e+22 Joules / 17.871 Teratons (Country level)
- Tier 2 (300,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 3 (2,000,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 4 (8,000,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 5 (40,000,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 1 (14,000 to 22,400 HP): 2.094e+22 Joules / 5.004 Teratons (Small Country level) to 3.350e+22 Joules / 8.006 Teratons (Country level)
- Lych-Soul (280 HP): 5.725e+19 Joules / 13.683 Gigatons (Island level)
- Tier 2 (53,500 to 84,000 HP): Much Higher
- Lych-Soul (1050 HP): 2.147e+20 Joules / 51.310 Gigatons (Island level)
- Tier 3 (245,000 to 394,000 HP): Much Higher
- Lych-Soul (4900 HP): 1.002e+21 Joules / 239.446 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- Tier 4 (525,000 to 840,000 HP): Much Higher
- Lych-Soul (10,500 HP): 1.570e+22 Joules / 3.753 Teratons (Small Country level)
- Tier 5 (2,100,000 to 3,360,000 HP): Much Higher
- Lych-Soul (42,000 HP): 6.281e+22 Joules / 15.012 Teratons (Country level)
- Tier 1 (30,000 to 48,000 HP): 4.486e+22 Joules / 10.723 Teratons (Country level) to 7.178e+22 Joules / 17.156 Teratons (Country level)
- Lych-Soul (600 HP): 1.227e+20 Joules / 29.320 Gigatons (Island level)
- Tier 2 (180,000 to 288,000 HP): Much Higher
- Lych-Soul (3600 HP): 7.360e+20 Joules / 175.919 Gigatons (Large Island level)
- Tier 3 (1,200,000 to 1,920,000 HP): Much Higher
- Lych-Soul (24,000 HP): 3.589e+22 Joules / 8.578 Teratons (Country level)
- Tier 4 (4,800,000 to 7,680,000 HP): Much Higher
- Lych-Soul (96,000 HP): Much Higher
- Tier 5 (24,000,000 to 38,400,000 HP): Much Higher
- Lych-Soul (480,000 HP): Much Higher
Similarly, Obyn will need to receive a note stating the calculated AP does not apply to combat.
So, since the entire verse’s tiers will be getting revised, why not knock another much-needed revision out of the way simultaneously?
Tower Speed Revisions
Alright, alright. This has been a long time coming.
Currently, Bloons TD has three speed levels:
Unknown: Bloons that move closer to x0.1 Red Speed (i.e. BADs and Bloonarius)
Transonic: Boomerang Monkey’s Sonic Boom upgrade, Bloons that move at x2 Red Speed (i.e. White & Rainbow Bloons) can dodge said attacks
Hypersonic: BTD6 Super Monkey Description, Bloons that move at x3.5 Red Speed (i.e. Pink Bloons and DDTs) can dodge said attacks
These need to be adjusted as most of the monkeys are stuck at Transonic despite being able to hit Pink Bloons consistently.
To test the speed of the towers, I tried to compare them to the Pink Bloons. In theory, if they were able to hit the pink Bloons consistently, they should be Hypersonic. However, this proved harder to test reliably than I initially expected. Many monkeys have attacks that either travel in weird patterns or have massive AoE. Not to mention the monkey’s placement in relation to the track as well as the track’s shape have a massive effect on whether towers can hit certain bloons more easily.
I thought maybe I could check the Bloons wiki to see if they listed projectile travel speed, but that turned out to be a bust. I also tried comparing the Attack Speed values, but those are used to compare how long of a gap there is between a towers’ attacks, so it doesn’t gauge well as, for example, Sniper Monkeys, which can hit any Bloon type regardless of speed, is one of the slower towers to reload.
My first test, of course, was to double check that Super Monkey’s relation with the pink Bloons still held some ground. And… of course it doesn’t. Regardless of the stage I tested, Super Monkey was consistently able to hit to the Pink Bloon. However, they seem to travel at a similar enough speed that I don’t really care about the inconsistency. Regardless, the main problem, as I described earlier, was testing other monkeys. With the differences in projectile path, projectile size, and AoE, it’s not really possible to get a clear-cut comparison.
So whatever. I decided to test the towers on Town Center, by placing them towards the bottom left so that their circle of range would only just cover the track. I knew for towers with smaller range this meant they would have an easier time attacking pinks, but it doesn’t matter. In the end, the only tower that consistently struggled to hit the Pink Bloons was the Monkey Buccaneers. I’d tested it on Downstream since it gave a better parallel line and even then it struggled to hit yellow bloons when not upgraded, much less pink. However, as our profiles start their base tier as a 2/2/2, I had to test that as well. Even then the Buccaneer was only able to hit the Pink Bloons thanks to the upgrades that gave it multiple projectiles. Mortar Monkey also struggled to hit the Pink Bloons, but that’s more due to timing than the monkey’s personal speeds. Even then, the mortars move FAR faster than Pink Bloons, so the scaling should be fine. As for Heroes and other irregular towers, Striker Jones and Etienne were the only ones who struggled. Despite both having upgrades to their Attack Speed, neither were able to hit the Pink Bloon as, again Attack Speed gauges how quickly they attack in succession and not the speed of their projectiles. Well, Etienne was, but that was if his drones were already sitting on the track. If they were off the track, but still in range to attack, they consistently missed.
So, excluding those exceptions, I believe the towers’ base tier speeds (as well as the Pink Bloon and DDT) should be changed to “At least Transonic, possibly Hypersonic”, Monkey Buccaneer & Etienne should be “At least Transonic, likely higher”, and Sniper Monkey & Super Monkey should be purely “Hypersonic”.
Something else I’d been thinking about is upgrading certain towers to the Speed of Light, but that would need to be discussed.
edit: Following Smashor's recommendations, Adora's Ball of Light and the Dartling Gunner's Ray of Doom might be able to be Light Speed. Sun Avatar + won't get added as they are plasma attacks and Sentai Churchill's is questionable at best.
Probably important entities to make profiles for
Dreadbloon & Blastapopoulos
Can be found on an old blog. Will need to be updated but otherwise should be fine to add
Bloons Super Monkey Bosses
Can be found on the above mentioned blog. Less necessary but probably still interesting to include.
Gravelord Lych
Lych is an actual Necromancer
Got a lot of abilities. I just didn't feel like putting them here cause this is already long enough.
Same tiering issue as Bloonarius, just worse cause of the extra tier listing for Lych-Soul
Is capable of fighting through all three current paragons with assistance
Unknown, 5% Red Bloon speed while Lych-Soul is active
Got a lot of abilities. I just didn't feel like putting them here cause this is already long enough.
Same tiering issue as Bloonarius, just worse cause of the extra tier listing for Lych-Soul
Is capable of fighting through all three current paragons with assistance
Unknown, 5% Red Bloon speed while Lych-Soul is active
Last edited:
