Bloom Upgrade

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Continued from this thread here.


Agreed Changes from Previous Thread:

• Tier: Low 2-C ----> At least 2-C
• Speed Change

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

No tier change due to the fact that only one universe was ever made at a time. Magic Dimension by the Great Dragon, Legendarium world by Acheron.

Speed upgrade to infinite or immeasurable by scaling does not work as it is outlierish given that nothing else suggests they are that speed, and time actually passes throughout their battles and travels.

My stance is no upgrade for you.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

However, I will be looking out for the infinite universe statement that I tried to upgrade her on a while back, as it might actually be in the original Italian version.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

No tier change due to the fact that only one universe was ever made at a time. Magic Dimension by the Great Dragon, Legendarium world by Acheron.

This has absolutely nothing to do with why Bloom should be upgraded to 2-C.

And this is coming from the person who made this upgrade to begin with,

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I agree with Kukui here:

• The reason she is being upgraded is due to the fact that she defended against the Magic of the Sentient Dimension itself (Legendarium) when at the time she was in her Base Form... and was even unaffected
• It has nothing to do with when the Magic Dimension was created. .. or the Legendarium
• She didn't get much stronger (not by a ludicrous amount at least... only somewhat superior) between seasons... Just learned how to use her Dragon Flame better...

• The Dragon Flame consistently stated claim that her Magic is superior to almost all others in verse.
• and that they needed a piece of the flame to unlock the Dimension , which the Legendarium couldn't do itself... A piece of the Dragon's Flame.

Speed is debatable though... But I'm leaning on agreeing until proven otherwise.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

Everything you just said is low 2-C at max, and your third thing has no evidence. There is nothing to set her apart from any other fairy in terms of those. (especially considering the forms likely work by multiplier of some sort, given that they were always useful for everyone who got them)

Also scans of that first thing would be nice, but that's slightly off topic so you don't have to.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

No, the Legendarium is not a Low 2-C structure. Its at the very least a 2-C one, something even Azzy agreed with before the thread died over.

Blooms Dragon Flame scales above the Legendarium which contains at least 2 universes (more than 2 for me, but Azzy and I agreed at least 2 was reasonable).

The speed change btw was dropped mid thread. Shes staying at MFTL+.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

Azzy said 2-C for Magic Dimension + Legendarium. I have no idea where you'd get 2 universes for Legendarium. (considering it's 1, or a lot)

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Oh... Okay for the speed... But honestly it's well above 2.... Even the worlds we see are at bare minimum > 10 universes.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

Didn't we already debunk that?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

What was debunked was the idea of it being just 2-B.... That was the only thing debunked... and even then it wasn't 100% completed. In the end all of us agreed the Legendarium was a 2-C feat at least.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

Debunked by saying "what exactly makes these separate universes?"

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Azzy said 2-C for Magic Dimension + Legendarium. I have no idea where you'd get 2 universes for Legendarium. (considering it's 1, or a lot)

How about the fact that the story worlds within the Legendarium are potentially universes? Thats why Azzy said he was fine with either "At least 2-C" or "2-C, Possibly higher".

And for the story worlds being separate, I already gave a huge section of explanation that was never debunked.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

You just misread that quoted statement. It's trying to say that 2 shouldn't result from it. 1, 10 or whatever was shown, or a very large amount should.

Bring me this section.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Which would still be a 2-C upgrade.

>Bring me this section

Its in my upgrade thread..which you should have read since you participated in it.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

Unfortunately, what you said there doesn't make it different universes. It can be accomplished by using a very large 3D structure, even. And copying a place into a new "world" doesn't make it another universe by default.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It does if the story is directly based off of a setting that clearly is within a universe.

Unless your saying places like Earth or Domino aren't in a universe all of a sudden.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

they're not copying the whole universe (as in the time part of things included), and pretty sure those 2 places are in the same universe, unless evidence otherwise is given.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>They're not copying the whole universe (as in the time part of things included)

Evidence of this? Because its a pretty random and honestly absurd assumption to make.

Domino is within the Magic Universe. A story in the Legendarium World takes place on Domino. Why assume this story version of Domino is suddenly some planet residing in some void or blank space instead of it residing in a fictional version of the Magic Universe? Not only does that make no sense, but the series itself never has these stories being depicted as such.

Occams Razor; The fictional version of Domino in the Legendarium World should be assumed to be a fictional version of the Magic Dimension until something says otherwise.

>And pretty sure those 2 places are in the same universe

I hope your not seriously suggesting Earth and Bloom's home planet are in the same universe when the beginning of the series has...blatantly made that to not be the case.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Death and Domino are separated by dimensional walls... Even in S1 they confirmed it to be in another universe within the Magic Dimension, with Earth being within a separate reality. Nothing inherently hints it to be just a planet.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

ok. so you make a claim that Acheron made the entire magic dimension a bunch of times for each myth, and say it's common assumption that they're all different universes. No. Just no. First off, you don't really have evidence that a myth is anything more than a planet, and this would be commonly assumed without evidence otherwise (if you really want me to, I can grab staff members to confirm that). And second, I think I stated before the whole Legendarium world could fit in a giant 3D structure, especially if they're just planets.

And I'm dropping the universes between Earth and Domino, as that is off topic.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

Direct link to Azzy's first message, with the second one two messages below. These support my argument that your claim is not common assumption.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

>ok. so you make a claim that Acheron made the entire magic dimension a bunch of times for each myth, and say it's common assumption that they're all different universes.

Because it is....common assumption? Unless you seriously believe planets don't commonly reside in universes as opposed to just some blank spaces.

Which would be more common? Planets being within a space-time continuum or planets just floating in a void? Im going to go with the former.

>First off, you don't really have evidence that a myth is anything more than a planet, and this would be commonly assumed without evidence otherwise (if you really want me to, I can grab staff members to confirm that).

See above and my previous points from before. It makes absolutely 0 sense to assume that these planets from the stories in the Legendarium are residing in some blank space instead of the fictional version of the reality they originally come from. A story that takes place on Domino should have the default assumption of taking place in a fictional version of the Magic Universe since Domino is originally from the Magic Universe. Or a story taking place on Earth should have the default assumption of residing in a fictional version of the regular universe since Earths...obviously from a universe. Especially since these stories are made real inside the Legendarium.

To assume only the planets would be able to exist and not replicas of the realities they come from is cherry-picking.

>And second, I think I stated before the whole Legendarium world could fit in a giant 3D structure.

That wouldnt take away anything from this. The Legendarium world can easily be a 3-D Multiversal structure.

>Direct link to Azzy's first message, with the second one two messages below. These support my argument that your claim is not common assumption.

They really dont as all those comments are is Azzy just disagreeing with my argument too. Thats it.

Azzy doesnt get the last word or decision just because.

 

[Drag-O-Drawgon]

We might be confusing the definition we use for universe, so I'll just put it here. It's a 4D space time continuum, as explained in the tiering system in the Low 2-C tier. By our definitions, you cannot have a 3D multiverse. Acheron making something like the magic dimension at least once by myths is toatally believable, and our updated standards would make that low 2-C, which I'm fine with. And then your point is all myths are universes, which argues 2-C.

But for now, I'm done with this debate, as it is either going to turn into argumentum ad nauseum or.already has. I'll probably be back here when the thread gets more attention.