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wait if i was arguing that the bleed is 5D spatially that would mean its 6D because time right??
so bleed is 5D if we include time
so bleed is 5D if we include time
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Well you weren't specific so I guess. It doesn't really matter anymore unless that's what you are still arguing for.wait if i was arguing that the bleed is 5D spatially that would mean its 6D because time right??
so bleed is 5D if we include time
This was stated a long time agoMore recently, infinite universes are said to be within the Bleed. Batman 2023.
What is the evidence for this claim? The scan you linked for "metafictional vision" doesn't use that term, it doesn't even use the term "fiction" either. It's just a picture of the 3-D glasses that came with the Superman Beyond book, and the instructions read:To be clear, the 4-D vision that Zillo gave Superman was explicitly a metaphor for metafictional vision (I.e. looking at something as fictional from a higher perspective),
Do you agree Bleed is 4D spatially but 5D if we include the temporal dimensionWhat is the evidence for this claim? The scan you linked for "metafictional vision" doesn't use that term, it doesn't even use the term "fiction" either. It's just a picture of the 3-D glasses that came with the Superman Beyond book, and the instructions read:
We'll be traveling through Bleed Space between the universes, but you'll need to upgrade to 4-D vision to truly comprehend what you experience. Prepare yourself by wearing these Overvoid viewers forged from Superman's own cosmic armor. Your ability to see 4-D perspective will develop spontaneously when you need it.
This really doesn't support your claim at all, so it's weird that you hyperlinked it to the phrase "metafictional vision" to give the appearance that this theory was supported by a scan. You even used the word "explicitly" which would mean this was actually stated somewhere, when it doesn't seem that it was.
I suppose that's probably fine, but I am not sure who scales to it. For instance, I am not eager to think that this adds another layer of QS to every realm outside of the Orrery, especially given that they feed on the bleed in Nil which is entirely metaphysical.Do you agree Bleed is 4D spatially but 5D if we include the temporal dimension
That's a rather far-fetched extrapolation from the fact that a comic book included 3-D glasses, and it's not really compatible with how DC treats it considering Earth-33. I would reject incorporating this theory into any of our scaling.The readers also need "4-D vision" just to understand Bleedspace, the readers exist in a higher perspective to the comic, and Superman got that very same vision.
So it's not really 4-D, per se, when it's a higher metafictional perspective to the comic.
I'm confused, why would Earth-33 make this scan incompatible with DCThat's a rather far-fetched extrapolation from the fact that a comic book included 3-D glasses, and it's not really compatible with how DC treats it considering Earth-33.
It comes down to Grant's vision on the nature of fiction. Much of this is just from his interviews and thus not canon, but some is also reflected in the writing of Earth-33 and the relationship between various universes demonstrated in Multiversity. Fiction isn't portrayed as a layer of infinite power from a higher realm to a lower realm, and we -- the readers -- are thought of as being just as much a part of the multiverse as the fictional characters we are reading. This isn't true, obviously, but that is the portrayal. In Multiversity we saw that even amongst the universes with heroes, they had comic books of the adventures of heroes from other universes and didn't realize they were real until meeting each other due to the Multiversity event. Thus, the instructions on the glasses wouldn't logically correlate to "this vision is that of someone who has R>F to something" because that isn't how the real world is portrayed within the verse.why would Earth-33 make this scan incompatible with DC
i thought if the bleed is 5D, the overvoid would just get bumped to 8DI suppose that's probably fine, but I am not sure who scales to it. For instance, I am not eager to think that this adds another layer of QS to every realm outside of the Orrery, especially given that they feed on the bleed in Nil which is entirely metaphysical.
I do accept it.Now, you needn't necessarily accept that reasoning from me
This presumes that a comic book represents a layer between a higher reality and a lower one. My point is that this explicitly isn't the case in DC. The real world in this instance just has access to a comic book about Nil. Final Crisis as a comic likely exists on Earth-33.The readers supposedly look back on the CAS while it was reaching out towards the page as the instructions describes it, so whatever the real world here is, its beyond Nil entirely, and thus, not really Earth-33.
Yeah, I don't think that's justified by the evidence. I consider "the instructions on a disposable pair of 3-D glasses" that came with the comic to be exceptionally low on my hierarchy of evidence, and more importantly the text on the glasses doesn't even make this assertion, it is an extrapolation that I don't agree with in the first place.Its to say that 4-D here, is simply just a metaphor for a higher perspective of an entity such as a reader
I believe my comment might have been misunderstood. I didn't mean "5D spatially" in the form of 5 spatial dimensions. It's got 4 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension as others said. I just meant the 5th dimension is a spatial dimension. Which means it could be used for a reference point that characters have solid dimensional travel feats or the ability to effect 4 or more spatial dimensions is often used as a reference point for good spatial manipulation hax. But it's more like a proposal for Low 1-C structure is what may still have some doubts.wait if i was arguing that the bleed is 5D spatially that would mean its 6D because time right??
so bleed is 5D if we include time
This assumes that I am referring to the connection between the worlds of the Orrery through comic books, I am not. I am referring to something completely beyond DC as a whole, the real world that Buddy can never reach.This presumes that a comic book represents a layer between a higher reality and a lower one.
Well, then that's your opinion so I cannot really argue against that.Yeah, I don't think that's justified by the evidence. I consider "the instructions on a disposable pair of 3-D glasses" that came with the comic to be exceptionally low on my hierarchy of evidence, and more importantly the text on the glasses doesn't even make this assertion, it is an extrapolation that I don't agree with in the first place.
Okay. I don't think there's much basis for that, I think you're reading too far into the inclusion of 3-D glasses. We use 3-D glasses to provide a sense of depth in flat images, it adds an additional dimension. In the corresponding scene, Superman is entering a 4-D realm where his vision needs to include another dimension beyond what he is used to. The connection, IMO, is far simpler than what you're imagining.I am referring to something completely beyond DC as a whole, the real world that Buddy can never reach.
The glasses were kinda intended to "put the reader in the comic" by having this 3-D robot Superman reach out towards them and hear them "breathing."Okay. I don't think there's much basis for that, I think you're reading too far into the inclusion of 3-D glasses. We use 3-D glasses to provide a sense of depth in flat images, it adds an additional dimension. In the corresponding scene, Superman is entering a 4-D realm where his vision needs to include another dimension beyond what he is used to. The connection, IMO, is far simpler than what you're imagining.
I also know there were versions of Superman Beyond in 3-D or something. Allowing people to actually use glasses and see the comic play out from that perspective.The glasses were kinda intended to "put the reader in the comic" by having this 3-D robot Superman reach out towards them and hear them "breathing."
So these glasses, and their instructions were supposed to add on to the story itself. So the idea that the same 4-D vision that Superman had being required to entities such as the readers with a higher perspective on the comic makes it pretty clear that 4-D here isn't really literal.
I don't really think it makes it that clear at all. In fact, I think if anything the inclusion of 3-D glasses, of all things, clearly makes it very literal. But I suppose we can agree to disagree.So the idea that the same 4-D vision that Superman had being required to entities such as the readers with a higher perspective on the comic makes it pretty clear that 4-D here isn't really literal.
It's why CAS has red and green eyes.I also know there were version of Superman Beyond in 3-D or something.
Going off what I've seen only, the conclusion from Executor is that the Bleed can be considered 5-D in its totality (in the sense that all multiverses are insignificantly 5-D and have 4 spatial dimensions), but only the 5th Dimension still holds qualitative superiority.
The premise of this thread was to tied the Bleed and the Fifth Dimension identically.
Thank you for your reply.The premise of this thread was to tied the Bleed and the Fifth Dimension identically.
The Bleed is the "Bulk" enclosing all brane universes (3 spatial dimensions + 1 temporal dimension), which is only accessible conventionally by moving up through higher dimensions, giving it 5-D properties. But this is not qualitatively superior enough for the Low 1-C rating, the only reasoning for such a tier would be to prove that the Bleed and the Fifth Dimension are indeed the same place, which I think this thread has managed to do.
Thank you for your reply.
Do you mean "managed to do" or "not managed to do"?
im trying to say that the Bleed IS the fifth dimensionGoing off what I've seen only, the conclusion from Executor is that the Bleed can be considered 5-D in its totality (in the sense that all multiverses are insignificantly 5-D and have 4 spatial dimensions), but only the 5th Dimension still holds qualitative superiority.
5th dimension as in mxy’s realmI believe the Bleed is 5D but I don't know if it is the 5th Dimension. It really doesn't make sense although both have similar functions.
Both have direct relationship though.I believe the Bleed is 5D but I don't know if it is the 5th Dimension. It really doesn't make sense although both have similar functions.
I'm well aware but I do not think that the two should be interchangeable but somewhat connected.5th dimension as in mxy’s realm
Elaborate what you mean by this?Both have direct relationship though.