Bleach Speed

[LordAizenSama]

Ok, it has come to my attention that, In bleach, Ever since the Soul Society Arc, Where we had Byakuya Being Mach 29, and Ichigo speedblitzing him, between that fight and every Character up until Dangai Ichigo and Monster Aizen, with all the speedblitzs and lolstomp fights during that time over and over, are all rated Mach 29. Surely, there's more people then just me seeing something wrong here?

I am aware that this is due to Kubo's Sh*t writing and not showing any noteworthy speedfeats, but this should leave open the door for powerscaling,which has to be done with post timeskip because quite frankly, having everyone from pre timeskip as the same god dam speed since the second part of the first arc is ridiculous. There has to be some leeway here because no-one can surely sit back and say that this is correct, right? And these should be the cases powerscaling is needed to be used. The phrase absence of evidence is not evidence of absence comes to mind

For powerscaling to Post timeskip, Powerscaling Shunsui (Currently Mach ~3500) to Aizen/Coyote Starrk should be acceptable. I mean, it's unreasonable to assume that they all trained (none were shown to do even this,except Hitsugaya who is still as irrelevant as ever, and renji mentions training to catch up to Aizen but that's it) and got so much unbelievably faster offscreen. If we go by the Current stats, Shunsui Is 100X~ faster then base Aizen because, why not. Obviously that's absurd.

Speedblitzing was always a prominent and very forefront thing in bleach,I believe it would be more appropriate to assume that they had this speed all along, and that no appropriate feats were shown to reflect it properly until after the timeskip

Starrk was able To keep up with Shunsui and ukitake at the same time, he also blitz'd Shunsui when his attention wavered.

Aizen Stomped Shunsui and multiple other captains with Lulz difficulty once he stopped playing around

So what I am thinking:

Base Aizen and his Forms pre-timeskip should be Upgraded to MHS+ For blitzing Shunsui + others all at once

Coyote Starrk Upgraded to MHS+ for handling Shunsui and Ukitake

Isshin Kurosaki Upgraded to MHS+ for Keeping Up With Base Aizen, also notably better fighting Aizen then Shunsui

Urahara Kisuke Upgraded to MHS+ for being comparable to Aizen's Speed in Chrysalis form for awhile

Yoruichi Upgraded to MHS+ for being able hit Fight Aizens Chrysallis form for awhile

Gin Ichimaru Upgraded to MHS+ For being Superior to the Espada, also should be comparable to shunsui.

Dangai Ichigo Upgraded to MHS+, For being Superior to everyone.


These are the Chars I believe Scaleable. I can't find a way to make them comparable to other chars.

 

[DeathReaperX]

Prepare for the Thousang Year War its gonna be long. *Gets Khopesh Bankai*

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

You forgot Dangai Ichigo and it seems that the war has begun... Muhahahahahahahahahaha.... well good luck Aizen and don't you dare die on me now...

If this actually get's accepted then I'll change all the profiles for ya...

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Here's a starrk speed calc to help http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=18051&page=2

 

[Krysis0]

dnt know about mhs+ but there is a new calc that put's almost everyone at solid mach 260 (even omaeda I believe) so you could scale it back to some espadas...

 

[LordAizenSama]

dnt know about mhs+ but there is a new calc that put's almost everyone at solid mach 260 (even omaeda I believe) so you could scale it back to some espadas...

What Calc are you talking about? But Current Shunsui is Mach 3500, and there should of been no notable training during that time (as it would of had to of been all offscreen) to warrant a 100X+ speed increase over a guy who Speedblitzd him like a joke

EDIT: Nvm, it seems to be the post above.

 

[Krysis0]

dnt know about mhs+ but there is a new calc that put's almost everyone at solid mach 260 (even omaeda I believe) so you could scale it back to some espadas...

What Calc are you talking about? But Current Shunsui is Mach 3500, and there should of been no notable training during that time to warrant a 100X+ speed increase over a guy who Speedblitzd him like a joke
EDIT: Nvm, it seems to be the post above.

This one http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=31085

Basically the speed of everyone involved there is mach 260, though this calc assumes ichigo's shunpo speed is 0 m/s and he was just free falling, you could apply the distance calced in this forum to get a much higher speed

 

[Non-Bias]

Can someone tell me what the first calced MHS+ speed feat was in Bleach? I was always curious about that. I'd appreciate it.


From what I'm gathering about this thread though, it's illogical to think that characters are so much slower than characters they fought 17 months before the current arc and thus they should be powerscaled to the characters they fought against right?

This is abusing the powerscaling system.

For one thing, I'd like to know what puts Shunsui at Mach 3500 via powerscaling and who has a calced feat that fast anyway.

Also, it's not unheard of getting more powerful in a very short time period, especially in Bleach. Look at Rukia and Renji. Got destroyed by their enemies and came back way more powerful than them in less than 48 hours. Imagine what you can do in 17 months.

Furthermore, the reasoning behind this isn't sound. It's unreasonable to assume they all trained and got faster and you're using Aizen being slower than Shunsui as a basis? Look at the answer above regarding Rukia and Renji you'll have the answer you're looking for. As for Shunsui being faster than Aizen, keep in mind that Aizen (while dangerous and powerful) relied heavily upon his Shikai ability to one up people. It certainly helps that everyone besides Ichigo and Tosen was under his thrall and he could make them see what they wanted to see. So basically you have no real way of knowing whether or not Aizen is slower than Shunsui because he every hardly fought against people himself without using his Shikai ability.

Yoruichi and Urahara can't be scaled to Aizen either because he wasn't fighting against them seriously. Once he did, he destroyed them.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Can someone tell me what the first calced MHS+ speed feat was in Bleach? I was always curious about that. I'd appreciate it.

From what I'm gathering about this thread though, it's illogical to think that characters are so much slower than characters they fought 17 months before the current arc and thus they should be powerscaled to the characters they fought against right?

This is abusing the powerscaling system.

For one thing, I'd like to know what puts Shunsui at Mach 3500 via powerscaling and who has a calced feat that fast anyway.

Also, it's not unheard of getting more powerful in a very short time period, especially in Bleach. Look at Rukia and Renji. Got destroyed by their enemies and came back way more powerful than them in less than 48 hours. Imagine what you can do in 17 months.

Furthermore, the reasoning behind this isn't sound. It's unreasonable to assume they all trained and got faster and you're using Aizen being slower than Shunsui as a basis? Look at the answer above regarding Rukia and Renji you'll have the answer you're looking for. As for Shunsui being faster than Aizen, keep in mind that Aizen (while dangerous and powerful) relied heavily upon his Shikai ability to one up people. It certainly helps that everyone besides Ichigo and Tosen was under his thrall and he could make them see what they wanted to see. So basically you have no real way of knowing whether or not Aizen is slower than Shunsui because he every hardly fought against people himself without using his Shikai ability.

Yoruichi and Urahara can't be scaled to Aizen either because he wasn't fighting against them seriously. Once he did, he destroyed them.

Here's the calc https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Bleach_-_Ichibei's_Speed

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Why is shunsui mach 3500?

I'm pretty sure chrysalis aizen got owned by gin's bankai which is at best mach 500 ,yoruichi is scaled from sui feng who is mach 213.

Starkk blitzing shunsui? I'm sorry but shunsui was dodging hundreds of starks cero's and the only time stark could land a hit was when shunsui was destructed.

Dangai ichigo MHS+ seems fine to me.

 

[Non-Bias]

I'll look at the calc later, but the fact that Shunsui is being powerscaled to the strongest Soul Reaper should be concrete proof of powerscaling abuse lol. I had a feeling and checked. Ichigo's being powerscaled to Ichibei too? Oh boy...

Pietro Maximoff: Thanks for the calc.

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Kkpaoios I wondered about that 2, but he is scaled to Haschwalth who is scaled to ichigo who blitzd Almighty Yhwach

Gins bankai made me think for a bit, but it could just be written off as inconsistent or just plain wrong, as is Yamamotos 15 million degrees celcius Bankai, and Candice's lightning being a mere 5 gigajoules..

and i never said starrk blitzd shunsui, i said matched it with him and ukitake, he blitzed him when he was distracted.

EDIT: @Nonbias what do you mean? do you mean Shunsui to Haschwalth or Aizen to shunsui..?

Shunsui fought with Haschwalth for a bit before Yamamoto was killed, and was fairly even

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I'll look at the calc later, but the fact that Shunsui is being powerscaled to the strongest Soul Reaper should be concrete proof of powerscaling abuse lol. I had a feeling and checked. Ichigo's being powerscaled to Ichibei too? Oh boy...
Pietro Maximoff: Thanks for the calc.

Ichigo isn't powerscaled in speed or DC/AP at all , and no problem

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Saying it's a mere inconsistent doesnt't seem right especialy since mach 500 was the fastest thing bleach had at that time.

I don't get what you are saying about yama's bankai ,Candice casual arrows may be just 5 gigajoules that doesn't mean anything about her overall power.

The calc that puts everyone at mach 260 doesn't make any sense.

For illuminati's calc i think angular size would be more suitable sinse the distance= Size of object / retinal size may be wrong.

 

[Non-Bias]

@Kkpaoios I wondered about that 2, but he is scaled to Haschwalth who is scaled to ichigo who blitzd Almighty Yhwach
Gins bankai made me think for a bit, but it could just be written off as inconsistent or just plain wrong, as is Yamamotos 15 million degrees celcius Bankai, and Candice's lightning being a mere 5 gigajoules..

and i never said starrk blitzd shunsui, i said matched it with him and ukitake, he blitzed him when he was distracted.

EDIT: @Nonbias what do you mean? do you mean Shunsui to Haschwalth or Aizen to shunsui..?

Shunsui fought with Haschwalth for a bit before Yamamoto was killed, and was fairly even

That whole first part is completely inaccurate. Ichigo didn't blitz Yhwach. At all. Given the very nature of Yhwach's power, I'd be far better to assume that Yhwach simply didn't care about Ichigo catching him, especially since he was attempting to mess with Ichigo's head.

And I doubt any of those are inconsistent and wrong.

Shunsui and Jugram never fought against each other. They simply exchanged words from behind a barrier.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

This ^

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

@Kkpaoios I wondered about that 2, but he is scaled to Haschwalth who is scaled to ichigo who blitzd Almighty Yhwach
Gins bankai made me think for a bit, but it could just be written off as inconsistent or just plain wrong, as is Yamamotos 15 million degrees celcius Bankai, and Candice's lightning being a mere 5 gigajoules..

and i never said starrk blitzd shunsui, i said matched it with him and ukitake, he blitzed him when he was distracted.

EDIT: @Nonbias what do you mean? do you mean Shunsui to Haschwalth or Aizen to shunsui..?

Shunsui fought with Haschwalth for a bit before Yamamoto was killed, and was fairly even

That whole first part is completely inaccurate. Ichigo didn't blitz Yhwach. At all. Given the very nature of Yhwach's power, I'd be far better to assume that Yhwach simply didn't care about Ichigo catching him, especially since he was attempting to mess with Ichigo's head.
And I doubt any of those are inconsistent and wrong.

Shunsui and Jugram never fought against each other. They simply exchanged words from behind a barrier.

Yes, he did, Yhwach attemping to get inside ichigo's head happended after ichigo caught him off gaurd

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

As Non-Bias said Yhwach can't be caught off guard.

 

[Non-Bias]

Pietro Maximoff: Check the comment section on Ichigo's page. Apparently someone did a hasty upgrade lol. Ichigo is MHS only. There's no +.

 

[LordAizenSama]

From what I'm gathering about this thread though, it's illogical to think that characters are so much slower than characters they fought 17 months before the current arc and thus they should be powerscaled to the characters they fought against right?

Based off what? they been the EXACT same speed for over 3 arcs, even with people who speedblitz people who speedblitz the speedblitzers who speedblitz the person who has Mach 29. see the problem yet?

They lack solid speed and the way they are now is disgustingly lowballed.

This is abusing the powerscaling system.

For one thing, I'd like to know what puts Shunsui at Mach 3500 via powerscaling and who has a calced feat that fast anyway.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Bleach_-_Ichibei's_Speed is what i believe you are after it's powerscaled Ichibei to Yhwach,Yhwach to Ichigo, Ichigo to Haschwalth, Haschwalth to Ichigo


Also, it's not unheard of getting more powerful in a very short time period, especially in Bleach. Look at Rukia and Renji. Got destroyed by their enemies and came back way more powerful than them in less than 48 hours. Imagine what you can do in 17 months.

The thing is, unlike them two, there is 0 Evidence of anyone getting notably stronger, if getting stronger at all. I'd agree if you could show me where and how exactly they got faster. by that logic, how much stronger was Lt. Aizen 100 years before he betrayed soul society? imagine the leaps and bounds to his strength to the present day! but in truth his power more or less stayed the same, as i suspect Shunsuis was during that time aswell. and i don't think having shunsui, with no known training at all, becoming 100X faster then the guy who lolblitzd him should be considered as alright and fair?

Furthermore, the reasoning behind this isn't sound. It's unreasonable to assume they all trained and got faster and you're using Aizen being slower than Shunsui as a basis? Look at the answer above regarding Rukia and Renji you'll have the answer you're looking for

Already answered this

. As for Shunsui being faster than Aizen, keep in mind that Aizen (while dangerous and powerful) relied heavily upon his Shikai ability to one up people. It certainly helps that everyone besides Ichigo and Tosen was under his thrall and he could make them see what they wanted to see. So basically you have no real way of knowing whether or not Aizen is slower than Shunsui because he every hardly fought against people himself without using his Shikai ability.

is this serious? the amount of downplay i see here is staggering. Gin goes into detail about this 1 2 3

Aizen quite clearly blitzes FOUR Captain/Captain levels Including Shunsui, INSTANTLY, all at once. and no you can't argue that's his shikai, Ichigo sees it and accepts it.

Yoruichi and Urahara can't be scaled to Aizen either because he wasn't fighting against them seriously. Once he did, he destroyed them.

they lasted for some while regardless, he said he wasn't being cautious, but nothing about holding back his strength

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Using angular size i get mach 5882 for ichibei

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Pietro Maximoff: Check the comment section on Ichigo's page. Apparently someone did a hasty upgrade lol. Ichigo is MHS only. There's no +.

I mearly added a beter link to the page, as the previous one was dead, so i don't understand what's so f** funny

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

As Non-Bias said Yhwach can't be caught off guard.

Yes, Yes he ca

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Haschwalth blitzed fullbring bankai ichigo ,not current true zanpakuto ichigo.

Urahara and yoruichi could be scaled to Aizen but it's highly unlikely that aizen was that fast.Blitzing someone at close distance doesn't require superior speed.

Since your problem is with the sudden leap of speed ,let me give you an example: Part 1 kakashi was supersonic+ while part 2 kakashi is MHS,which would mean kakashi got at least 40 times faster while doing nothing and receaving no physical boost.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

As Non-Bias said Yhwach can't be caught off guard.

Yes, Yes he ca

How ? Yhwach can see the future ,he knows precisely where ichigo is at any time.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Using angular size i get mach 5882 for ichibei

That's even beter....

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I'm not sure about the way i used it, i will upload it some time this weak and ask illuminati and DontTalk

 

[LordAizenSama]

Haschwalth blitzed fullbring bankai ichigo ,not current true zanpakuto ichigo.Urahara and yoruichi could be scaled to Aizen but it's highly unlikely that aizen was that fast.Blitzing someone at close distance doesn't require superior speed.Since your problem is with the sudden leap of speed ,let me give you an example: Part 1 kakashi was supersonic+ while part 2 kakashi is MHS,which would mean kakashi got at least 40 times faster while doing nothing and receaving no physical boost.

my point is, due to the lack of bleach speedfeats they're all lowballed as high hypersonic, or mach 29 right? we agree on that part?

Shunsui Has no notable training, though, and that is a issue. it's not even speculated at all, consider the 100 years he spent in Soulsociety we see when Aizen was there, then he left for 100 years, I would bet to say with Kubo's writing, their powers didn't change at all

and unlike Kakashi, im quite sure they have feats to go off of, unlike poor bleach which is forever stuck at mach 29 due to no good feats besides blitzing each other for days, which gets lowballed back to mach 29

EDIT:and if that Haschwalth blitzing msg was aimed at me, I wasn't talking about Haschwalth being comparable to ichigo who could Blitz Yhwach was what it was based off

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

As Non-Bias said Yhwach can't be caught off guard.

Yes, Yes he ca

How ? Yhwach can see the future ,he knows precisely where ichigo is at any time.

Yhwach was focused on Two things at that time, the soul king and his right hand, whom both have an Immunity to his almighty, while he was focusing on them both, he got caught off gaurd by ichigo

 

[Krysis0]

Saying it's a mere inconsistent doesnt't seem right especialy since mach 500 was the fastest thing bleach had at that time.
I don't get what you are saying about yama's bankai ,Candice casual arrows may be just 5 gigajoules that doesn't mean anything about her overall power.

The calc that puts everyone at mach 260 doesn't make any sense.

For illuminati's calc i think angular size would be more suitable sinse the distance= Size of object / retinal size may be wrong.

I believe the calc is trying to show that the shinigami moved a distance greater than the black blobs in the same time frame, and we can work out the speed of the blobs in a similar way to mimihagi.

 

[Davy0]

How are they all low-balled at High Hypersonic? Compared to Ichigo and anyone who is comparable to or above him, they are fodder so it doesn't matter. They aren't as fast as Ichigo is, lol Omaeda becoming MHS without solid proof as well. Ichigo easily defeated and contended with the likes of Byakuya Kuchiki who could at least somewhat keep up with the supposed fastest person at the time (Yoruichi) during that time. So if anyone COULD be scaled to that it would be the highs and tops at that time, not the Lieutenants who didn't do anything but get their asses whooped.

The conversation about Yhwach being "speed-blitzed" is appauling, He has the ability to see at least three-sixty degrees thanks to his precognitive ability. How is Ichigo going to speed-blitz someone faster than he is, while they also have precognitive ability. You guys are making something rocket science when it's barely kindergarten level (the ones who would be for the calc).

We're placing characters who are known to actually do something in a fight other than get royally kicked in the ass in the MHS running. People such as Bee Bee Queen, Ice Princess, Flashing Boobs Dark-chan, Bamboomaru, and a few more I may be forgetting. But you're saying that everyone should be MHS and that the top tiers should be relativistic.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Ah and Davy0 arrives to the scene. I wonder how Aizen is gonna deal with the experienced debater. Let's wait and see folks...

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Ah and Davy0 arrives to the scene. I wonder how Aizen is gonna deal with the experienced debater. Let's wait and see folks...

Oh great, get ready for the rude remarks and possible insults

 

[Davy0]

Ah and Davy0 arrives to the scene. I wonder how Aizen is gonna deal with the experienced debater. Let's wait and see folks...

Oh great, get ready for the rude remarks and possible insults

You know me so well.

 

[Non-Bias]

Ah, I have to go to work and I'll miss the show.

 

[LordAizenSama]

How are they all low-balled at High Hypersonic?

Because, They have no feats other than speedblitzing eachother over and over, therefore they can't be put anywhere because there was nothing to gauge off how fast they were, other than Byakuya being Mach 29 off some other calc. so we have no quantifiable way to place them any higher due to lack of feats, other then powerscaling, which is entirely possible.

The conversation about Yhwach being "speed-blitzed" is appauling, He has the ability to see at least three-sixty degrees thanks to his precognitive ability. How is Ichigo going to speed-blitz someone faster than he is, while they also have precognitive ability. You guys are making something rocket science when it's barely kindergarten level (the ones who would be for the calc).

I can actually agree to this. Although the manga doesn't imply that Yhwach was anticipating Ichigo, he was focused on the soulking. However Keep in mind Yhwach Is going to lose somehow.

And Even still, That would Place Ichigo Back at MHS, Haschwalth is atleast that, who fought Shunsui to a standstill.

We're placing characters who are known to actually do something in a fight other than get royally kicked in the ass in the MHS running. People such as Bee Bee Queen, Ice Princess, Flashing Boobs Dark-chan, Bamboomaru, and a few more I may be forgetting. But you're saying that everyone should be MHS and that the top tiers should be relativistic.

If you used perhaps used proper names, i May be able to tell who you are talking about.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Ah, I have to go to work and I'll miss the show.

Lol later man.

 

[Davy0]

Because, They have no feats other than speedblitzing eachother over and over, therefore they can't be put anywhere because there was nothing to gauge off how fast they were, other than Byakuya being Mach 29 off some other calc. so we have no quantifiable way to place them any higher due to lack of feats, other then powerscaling, which is entirely possible.

What? That doesn't make any sense. The lower tiers being on speeds on par with mid and top tiers while their are falling blobs screams outlier to me no matter how you set it up thanks to the sheer fact that characters like Rukia and Renji are becoming that middle ground, strong enough not to be completely obliterated, but not strong enough to be a threat to top tiers like Sniper-guy.

I can actually agree to this. Although the manga doesn't imply that Yhwach was anticipating Ichigo, he was focused on the soulking. However Keep in mind Yhwach Is going to lose somehow.

And Even still, That would Place Ichigo Back at MHS, Haschwalth is atleast that, who fought Shunsui to a standstill.

I'm all for Ichigo being MHS+ due to his showings with Yhwach, but the smaller tiers such as Omaeda shouldn't be High Hypersonic unless they have more consistent showings. I agree with Shunsui and Sniper-guy being MHS, possibly MHS+.

If you used perhaps used proper names, i May be able to tell who you are talking about.

Bee Bee Queen = Sui-Feng, Ice Princess = Rukia, Flashing Boobs Dark-chan = Yoruichi, Bamboomaru = Renji.

 

[LordAizenSama]

I'm a bit confused, are we on the same page? I'm not arguing that lieutenants are above High hypersonic,

Im arguing about Pre-Time Skip Aizen, and people comparable to him right now.

Base Aizen is only RatedHigh hypersonic. For example, Ulquiorra is only High hypersonic despite Blitzing a Hollowed mask version of Ichigo,who is also high hypersonic, who could Match a Fullpower Grimmjow who is also high hypersonic Who Kicked Soulsociety Ichigo'sass (a high hypersonic) without his resurrection, and that is also rated high hypersonic. (they are all rated mach 29.)

Now im saying That pre timeskip Base Aizen is equal to Timeskip Shunsui who he speedblitz'd before the timeskip, who has no mention of doing training during that time and should be about the same level as then.

 

[WestWood7]

Putting them MHS+ is too much IMO

They should be MHS ( Ulquiorra still being High Hypersonic after 2 "resurreccion" LOL the guy just lolblitzed a high hypersonic character with his R1, then he blitzed the same character even harder with his R2 )