Bleach Speed Update [ SS Arc ]

[HokageMangaVox]

Feat


Byakuya Sword distance from Ichigo CENTER Face is 0.5 Centimeter. In Order for Ichigo to dodge it, His face would turn sideways, Because Ichigo face is SO Thick...

Speed Statement




T=D/S D= 0.5 centimeter S= Mach 300 (LOW End, just LIGHTNING Timer) [No Lightning Speed Since Lightning speed Low End is Mach 600] Even The scan above stated Ichigo is like Lightning.

0.5 centimeter / Mach 300 = 48.9778326 nanoseconds

Now to Find the distance between them. I say this scan is 3 feet between them.




S = D/T D= 3 feet [ Distance between them ] T= 48 nanoseconds [ Taken from first calc ]

3 feet / 48 nano seconds = 19 050 000 m / s

Mach = 55539 [ LOW END @ Mach 300 Lightning Timer Speed ]

Mach = 111078 [ HIGH END @ Mach 600 Lightning Speed ]

That would make Ichigo in Soul Society Arc: Massively Hypersonic

Either Mach 300 or 600 makes Ichigo MH in SS Arc. I'll go with Low-End.

There's no surprise here, since he was able to cut thousands of swords in seconds.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

here's a calc on the exact same thing http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=31135

 

[HokageMangaVox]

here's a calc on the exact same thing http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=31135

My point is that if Ichigo is this fast in SS arc, then the thing about Ichibei's speed a long with Yhwach and Mimihagi is true, they should be Sub-Relativistic according to the thousand Ri, is more official.

Remember this:

 

[DontTalk]

I do not know if the statement you have there even came from a canon source, but that aside "like lightning" is a phrase that is often used to just emphasize that something is really fast, it has nothing to do with a specific speed statement.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

I do not know if the statement you have there even came from a canon source, but that aside "like lightning" is a phrase that is often used to just emphasize that something is really fast, it has nothing to do with a specific speed statement.

Sorry but I don't believe is an emphasize.

-Manga showed Ichigo to be faster than Byakuya could percieve.

-Manga/ Databook stated it.

And I didn't have to use the databook, Ichigo blitzed a lightning timer on panel.

The lightning timer was Choujiro, his zanpakuto shinkai and Bankai is based on Lighting and Ichigo moved faster than his attack with Shinkai only. Choujiro is pretty much Lightning Timer. As it was stated on Manga he was the only person who ever cut Yama face with his sword.. If he wasn't lightning timer, he would never able to cut Yama with his sword..and Choujiro is Captain level. As It was stated, Choujiro master his zanpaktou already before Ukitate and Kyoraku did.

There's no need to low-ball this any more. Ichigo in SS Arc is low-end 300 mach at least.

 

[DontTalk]

Chinjiro can cause lightning, which by no means implies that he is as fast as lightning. In the first place cloud to ground lightning doesn´t produce that high speed feats. He hurt yamamoto ages ago, we have neither an idea how strong yamamoto was back then, nor how seriously this fight between friends even was.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Chinjiro can cause lightning, which by no means implies that he is as fast as lightning. In the first place cloud to ground lightning doesn´t produce that high speed feats. He hurt yamamoto ages ago, we have neither an idea how strong yamamoto was back then, nor how seriously this fight between friends even was.

-Chinjiro doesn't create clouds. It creates a dome of lighting which he can fire lighting from, this doesn't takes more than seconds. (The cloud thing, was filler)

-Yamamoto was stronger than current Yama "ages ago", Fake Yhwach states this. Meaning that Chinjiro's speed and power was more stronger that what we have now on his page. So, been lighting speed in the "SS Arc" will be call Low-ball.

Still making Ichigo 300 mach in SS Arc.

 

[DontTalk]

On the panel you linked to one sees the lightning coming from above the panel and it was stated in the same chapter that his bakai manipulates the weather. If that weren´t the case I would have doubted it being lightning in the first place.

Yamamoto was stronger ages ago is an absolutely vague statement. That could have very well been long after him getting the scar, given how old that guy is. And as said already that was a not serious fight between friends and we have no idea about the circumstances. If you really think you can scale him to Yama that is ridiculous. Also if you say that Yama was beyond his peak ages ago than it stands to reason that Chinjiro is far behind his peak as well.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

On the panel you linked to one sees the lightning coming from above the panel and it was stated in the same chapter that his bakai manipulates the weather. If that weren´t the case I would have doubted it being lightning in the first place.
Yamamoto was stronger ages ago is an absolutely vague statement. That could have very well been long after him getting the scar, given how old that guy is. And as said already that was a not serious fight between friends and we have no idea about the circumstances. If you really think you can scale him to Yama that is ridiculous. Also if you say that Yama was beyond his peak ages ago than it stands to reason that Chinjiro is far behind his peak as well.

-It manipulates the weather but still no clouds are form. Only direct lighting attacks, unless the dome is somehow a lighting cloud. (No idea where the dome/cloud idea came from) it doesn't matter it only took seconds to form.

-Yes, he was stronger and he already had the scar. The fight between friends have nothing to do with it. Even if they hold back or if Yama aloud Chinjiro to cut him, the lighting that was product by Driscoll was weaker and it was used on a weaker Yamamato. That set. Chinjiro speed and power was stronger back them.

Based on this a lighting timer was still blitzed by Shinkai Ichigo, according to this, Bankai Ichigo should Mach 600 High-end and Low-end 300 with Shinkai.

But like i said i prefer better the Low-End since this was more acceptable here in the wiki.

 

[Non-Bias]

Some statements shouldn't be taken too seriously as you can see.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Hokage i'd give up.im sure people have tried to come at this from different angles but alas pretimeskip Bleach will be forever cursed at Mach 29.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Some statements shouldn't be taken too seriously as you can see.

This doesn't even have a speed calculation or based stament to compared to. It doesn't say how fast he was going.

On the other hand i have the calculation and "clear" staments. Naruto's databook are always wanked to much. Character in Naruto are MS and they can't even form afterimages of themself when they move, like DBZ or Bleach. Check the links above.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Hokage i'd give up.im sure people have tried to come at this from different angles but alas pretimeskip Bleach will be forever cursed at Mach 29.

No, it won't. I have the evidence right there. Calc plus evidence to back it up. TWO diferent evidences Manga and Databook. The two are different and it has the same result.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Apart from all the important details DontTalk mentioned ,the image says ichigo is lightning fast so what is all these nonsense you write below?

 

[LordAizenSama]

just think about how long its been since soul society, and how many people tried to get their speed up, yet is still mach 29 to this day. i wanted to powerscale to post timeskip but that was denied so.. goodluck.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Either way what you are saying makes absolutely no sense ,so i suggest you stop this and do real calcs.

 

[Non-Bias]

I see you missed the point of this. On the same scan that says Ichigo's speed is like lightning, you'll also see that same godlike speed statement. Things like this aren't meant to be taken most of the time.

If Ichigo was mach 300-600 in SS arc, it'd contradict what was shown in the series.

 

[CaptainFalcon64]

This doesn't look bad, Bleach is already getting high up there in power, the only thing I see is holdng them back is them being mach 29 at the SS Arc. This looks like it might solve it.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Either way what you are saying makes absolutely no sense ,so i suggest you stop this and do real calcs.

Explain why it doesn't make sense? Everyone has the same speed since the SS Arc. Who even made the mach 29 speed calc anyway?

Guest what according to his is still MS:

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=31085

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=31135

Just saying that it makes no sense, doesn't make the calc wrong. Given the facts.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

I see you missed the point of this. On the same scan that says Ichigo's speed is like lightning, you'll also see that same godlike speed statement. Things like this aren't meant to be taken most of the time.
If Ichigo was mach 300-600 in SS arc, it'd contradict what was shown in the series.

No i didn't. Godlike speed doesn't have anything to do with this. (That could mean any speed) Since it was shown in panel in the series Ichigo blitzing a lighting timer on panel. Naruto and Bleach are different. You can't use the same rule for speed since in Naruto they are not even fast enough to make afterimages of themselfs. Besides in Naruto calc things from the databook have been use for calc, so i don't see the problem here. Both Manga and databook provide evidence. There's nothing that contradict this, seeing them move slower can be used the same way as in Naruto if you say they are alike, "you can't see then move faster because they are slowing them down for you to see them" , that's the stament always use for this.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Besides the 29 Mach Calc had an assumption with the characters moving to calculate the speed. This is more accurate.

 

[Non-Bias]

I see you missed the point of this. On the same scan that says Ichigo's speed is like lightning, you'll also see that same godlike speed statement. Things like this aren't meant to be taken most of the time.
If Ichigo was mach 300-600 in SS arc, it'd contradict what was shown in the series.

No i didn't. Godlike speed doesn't have anything to do with this. Since it was shown in panel in the series Ichigo blitzing a lighting timer on panel. Naruto and Bleach are different. You can't use the same rule for speed since in Naruto they are not even fast enough to make afterimages of themselfs. Besides in Naruto calc things from the databook have been use for calc, so i don't see the problem here. Both Manga and databook provide evidence. There's nothing that contradict this, seeing them move slower can be used the same way as in Naruto if you say they are alike, "you can't see then move faster because they are slowing them down for you to see them" , that's the stament always use for this.

Allow me to point out why mach 300-600 Ichigo doesn't make much sense.

Gin Ichimaru's Bankai was apparently mach 500 given his own statement. Ichigo, who was much more powerful compared to his SS arc self, could barely follow it. That destroys the mach 600 right there. It gets worse. Gin lied about the speed of his Bankai in order to throw off Aizen. By how much is anyone's guess, which means that we'll be entering the realm of assumptions trying to guess such things. So Ichigo could barely react to a mach ??? sword lenght which makes the whole thing unquantifiable. But that's my opinion. If you want to keep promoting it this I won't stop you.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

I see you missed the point of this. On the same scan that says Ichigo's speed is like lightning, you'll also see that same godlike speed statement. Things like this aren't meant to be taken most of the time.
If Ichigo was mach 300-600 in SS arc, it'd contradict what was shown in the series.

No i didn't. Godlike speed doesn't have anything to do with this. Since it was shown in panel in the series Ichigo blitzing a lighting timer on panel. Naruto and Bleach are different. You can't use the same rule for speed since in Naruto they are not even fast enough to make afterimages of themselfs. Besides in Naruto calc things from the databook have been use for calc, so i don't see the problem here. Both Manga and databook provide evidence. There's nothing that contradict this, seeing them move slower can be used the same way as in Naruto if you say they are alike, "you can't see then move faster because they are slowing them down for you to see them" , that's the stament always use for this.

Allow me to point out why mach 300-600 Ichigo doesn't make much sense.
Gin Ichimaru's Bankai was apparently mach 500 given his own statement. Ichigo, who was much more powerful compared to his SS arc self, could barely follow it. That destroys the mach 600 right there. It gets worse. Gin lied about the speed of his Bankai in order to throw off Aizen. By how much is anyone's guess, which means that we'll be entering the realm of assumptions trying to guess such things. So Ichigo could barely react to a mach ??? sword lenght which makes the whole thing unquantifiable. But that's my opinion. If you want to keep promoting it this I won't stop you.

You're right. But you miss a little detail. There was no training between the SS Arc and this in the manga except his Hollow Mask training. Ichigo's speed was more faster than the average captain, Gin had equal speed to Ichigo. (Without his mask) Gin was also a Good Guy, he didn't want to kill Ichigo. He lied and he could have also used less speed since Ichigo was exhausted from fighting Grimmjow, Nnoitra, Ulquiorra, and Aize. He had no time to rest between this fights and had been fighting Gin for awhile before this come to pass.

My point:

-Ichigo didn't have any training besides controlling his Hollow mask. (Always follow the manga)

-Gin and Ichigo speed are about the same. Gin probably is faster since Ichigo was exhausted from all does fights. (Unohana cure some of his injuries in the dangai.) Gin was also able to match Hollow-masked Ichigo. (That's why i say he could be faster.)

-Kenpachi was still stronger than Ichigo when he fought, Nnoitra. (Like in the Soul Society) Aizen states that the Espadas are weaker than the Shinigami. Except for Ulquiorra second release.

-Gin should be MS too like Aizen in SS Arc, since he could keep up with his movements. (Gin whole motive was to surpass and kill Aizen.) But since Aizen blitzed everyone, he could be MS+ all the way to the Fake Karakura Town Arc. Not counting Monster Aizen or Dangai Ichigo.

-Touse is at regular Captain Speed like Byakuya, Komamura and Kenpachi.

This doesn't contradicts anything. The only training they (Shinigami) had was during the 17 months timeskip. Which can be calculate with the 1,000 year blood war feats. Bleach was once compare to dbz when it was first starting. Thanks to the advice and support of Akira Toriyama this manga was created by Kubo. Been MS at the SS Arc up to Sub-Relativistic in the Final Arc with Ichibei, Yhwach and Mimihagi is not that far off from the original intent by Kubo thanks to Toriyama-sensei. The one who give him the inspiration. I still believe that having the lighting speed calc is better and more accurate than a Mach 29 with an assumption regarding the characters movements.

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

@HokageMangaVox Lol Rock Lee was moving so fast he left afterimages of himself in his fight with Gaara, and that was in part 1 of Naruto(at 5:12)... you don't have to be that fast to create afterimages just saying. So just because Naruto doesn't abuse the afterimage cliche like Bleach doesn't mean they aren't as fast, every author illustrates stuff differently afterall. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NKDIVq8UMLM

On the other hand, some characters in Naruto are moving so fast they look like actual streaks of light(refer to Naruto deflecting bijuu bombs, Naruto vs Toneri, and Sasuke vs Kinshiki).

 

[HokageMangaVox]

@HokageMangaVox Lol Rock Lee was moving so fast he left afterimages of himself in his fight with Gaara, and that was in part 1 of Naruto(at 5:12)... you don't have to be that fast to create afterimages just saying. So just because Naruto doesn't abuse the afterimage cliche like Bleach doesn't mean they aren't as fast, every author illustrates stuff differently afterall.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NKDIVq8UMLM

On the other hand, some characters in Naruto are moving so fast they look like actual streaks of light(refer to Naruto deflecting bijuu bombs, Naruto vs Toneri, and Sasuke vs Kinshiki).

You think this is an afterimage?





This is an afterimage:










Here more:







No Gif for this ones but you should get the point by now. None one in Naruto can do an afterimage.

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

The Rock Lee one wasn't a good example, skip to 7:52 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QScF7YwFUeg

The distorted figure of themselves that they leave behind as they are moving is an afterimage. The difference is that Ichigo is using flash step in rapid succession to confuse his opponent, instead of just using it to blitz and appear behind them which would only leave a single afterimage. In the video Shisui utilized the body flicker in only that instance to dodge the kunai, which only left a single afterimage. So pretty much anyone who is hypersonic+ can create an afterimage, which is why being able to create one is not a good measurement of speed.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

The Rock Lee one wasn't a good example, skip to 7:52
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QScF7YwFUeg

The distorted figure of themselves that they leave behind as they are moving is an afterimage. The difference is that Ichigo is using flash step in rapid succession to confuse his opponent, instead of just using it to blitz and appear behind them which would only leave a single afterimage. In the video Shisui utilized the body flicker in only that instance to dodge the kunai, which only left a single afterimage. So pretty much anyone who is hypersonic+ can create an afterimage, which is why being able to create one is not a good measurement of speed.

Stop this nonesense:

-That's from a Game.

-He said it was an illusion.

-Moving out of the way very fast is not an afterimage.

"anyone who is hypersonic+ can create an afterimage" False. Afterimage is a technique, is not speed. Quincy's can't use afterimage and they are above hypersonic+ coming from a anime that "abuses" afterimage like you say. Nowhere in the Naruto wiki or Manga says or show that they have a technique like afterimage in Naruto.


This is what they can do in Naruto which is common in Bleach.
There's a big difference.








This is an afterimage:

:










I subject you search a subject before talking about it.

 

[KyofuSama93]

^ What an absurd conversation

 

[HokageMangaVox]

^ What an absurd conversatio

The Narutards can't wank harder. By the way i'm not refering to speed. Simple as it is Naruto character's can't do an afterimage.

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

@HokageMangaVox Dude you just proved my point further with that Hunter X Hunter gif... you do realize Gon is hypersonic+ at most and he can create afterimages right? And they are all using speed to create an afterimage in the second set of gifs you posted. It also says images may appear "static-like" not appearing real and they don't last long which is what is being shown in the first few gifs you posted. Rock Lee and Might Guy are even listed in the "known users" section too lol so I suggest you search a subject before talking about it. http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Afterimage_Creation

And also how am I wanking? In your reply to Non-Bais you said Naruto characters "are not even fast enough to make afterimages of themselves" so you were indeed referring to speed, don't try and change your words now by saying you "weren't referring to speed." I was just simply debunking your attempt at downplaying by saying you don't need to be that fast to create afterimages so I don't exactly see how I am wanking lol

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Dude you just proved my point further with that Hunter X Hunter gif... you do realize Gon is hypersonic+ at most and he can create afterimages right? And they are all using speed to create an afterimage in the second set of gifs you posted. It also says images may appear "static-like" not appearing real and they don't last long which is what is being shown in the first few gifs you posted. Rock Lee and Might Guy are even listed in the "known users" section too lol so I suggest you search a subject before talking about it. http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Afterimage_Creation
And also how am I wanking? In your reply to Non-Bais you said Naruto characters "are not even fast enough to make afterimages of themselves" so you were indeed referring to speed, don't try and change your words now by saying you "weren't referring to speed." I was just simply debunking your attempt at downplaying by saying you don't need to be that fast to create afterimages so I don't exactly see how I am wanking lol

Yes, they need speed to create an afterimage but is a "technique" just because you can move at hypersonic speed doesn't mean you can make an afterimage. If you consider that to be an afterimage then that is the lowest afterimage i have ever seen in any anime.

They can't even make a single speed clone of themselfs, Gon probably is faster than then with at least 5 speed clones. I don't see the logic in your reasoning. If they are "faster" why is their "afterimage" in the basic level? This include all character's in Naruto, show me someone making more than one speed clone at the same time. See how you're confusing things, I'm not denying that top tiers are MS+ or dowplaying but there "afterimage" is still in the basic level.

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

Umm actually you are the one who's confusing things... now you are saying do need speed to create an afterimage but "because you can move at hypersonic speed doesn't mean you can make an afterimage" when Gon is indeed hypersonic+ at the most and he can create afterimages, so I don't exactly see your point? And now your saying that Gon is probably faster than Naruto characters just because he can create 5 afterimages... Like I previously said, afterimages are not a good measure of speed because even someone who is hypersonic+(like Gon) can create them, heck even pikachu can create multiple afterimages lol so being able to create them isn't that impressive just saying. Every author has different ways of depicting speed, for example a Marvel characters are many times faster than light and a lot of them have never been shown creating afterimages, so does that mean Pikachu is faster than Thor? Your reasoning is pretty much "if someone can't create multiple afterimages, they aren't that fast" which is far from the truth.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Umm actually you are the one who's confusing things... now you are saying do need speed to create an afterimage but "because you can move at hypersonic speed doesn't mean you can make an afterimage" when Gon is indeed hypersonic+ at the most and he can create afterimages, so I don't exactly see your point? And now your saying that Gon is probably faster than Naruto characters just because he can create 5 afterimages... Like I previously said, afterimages are not a good measure of speed because even someone who is hypersonic+(like Gon) can create them, heck even pikachu can create multiple afterimages lol so being able to create them isn't that impressive just saying. Every author has different ways of depicting speed, for example a Marvel characters are many times faster than light and a lot of them have never been shown creating afterimages, so does that mean Pikachu is faster than Thor? Your reasoning is pretty much "if someone can't create multiple afterimages, they aren't that fast" which is far from the truth.

You didn't understand anything. Not all character's that move at hypersonic speed can make afterimages. This mean that moving at hypersonic speed doesn't aloud you to create afterimages. (This is proven by Naruto characters, Quincy's and other character that are already hypersonic or more) What i'm trying to say is that "afterimage" is a "technique" of speed. Having a character create more afterimages doesn't make it faster than someone who cannot. I said above that Gon is probably faster addressing your confusion. Gon in that picture is faster than Rock Lee in that Gif. I'll leave you with that, this topic is gone out of topic. If you have anything to say about the topic say it. I don't want this thread to get out of topic.

 

[UzumakiKurisu]

So now your saying "having a character create more afterimages doesn't make it faster than someone who can not" when earlier you said that Naruto characters "are not fast enough to create afterimages of themselves" which you implied that making afterimages of yourself makes you faster? You are pretty much contradicting yourself but whatever I guess we'll end this conversation here since I have nothing to say about the actual topic of this thread.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Afterimages prove nothing ,NOTHING ,they are a mere way to show someone is fast and it's only used if the writer wants to use them.Using your logic i could just say hey bleach and naruto characters have never broken the sound barrier so they are below mach 1.But that would be wrong since it's the writers preference to use it or not.

Back to the topic

1.Gin's bankai is mach 500 and it can't go higher.He even admits that he lied about about it's abilities.But sinse he said that to aizen ,the mach 500 is accepted.That throws mach 600 ichigo out of the window.Now if ichigo was mach 300 he should be able to percieve the sword comming to him from that distance ,but he was completely blitzed by it.So that also disprove the mach 300 by 95%.

2.You do realize that there is not calc that puts him at that speed ,you just took a statement and without backing it up with good evidence you present it as a calc.

 

[LordAizenSama]

^while i completely disagree with what the OP is trying to do here, whether a char of mach 50 is able to perceive or not perceive something someone of higher speed is entirely upto the author. for example a mach 30 maybe be able to react to a mach 100, but in another series a mach 30 might not be able to react to mach 35.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

^The afterimage thing is irrevelant here, i'm not talking about speed. Simple as that. I just pointed out that Naruto character's have a basic level of afterimage that doesn't mean they are slower because an afterimage is a technique of speed. Just to clear things out.

On topic I already explain why Ichigo couldn't dodge the sword and since Gin lied he could be even faster and holding back since he was keeping up with Aizen and Aizen blizted all the captians. Ichigo fought, Grimmjow, Nnoitra, Ulquiorra, got some of his wounds heal and continue on to fight Aizen and then Gin. He had no time to rest.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Shikai Ichigo Blitzed Chojiro, who he himself had a lightning zanpakuto, whether or not this makes Chojiro lightning speed in Reaction time is up to you, but it is possible. You don't have a sword that's faster than you can swing, right?

Here's the proof:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111139434/4186377-5665049082-UZi6C.png

The calculation is fine. Ichigo Shinkai is Mach 300 and Bankai Mach 600.

That makes Ichigo in Soul Society Arc: Massively Hypersonic

 

[WestWood7]

Mach 600 ? He couldn't even REACT or SEE Gin's Zanpakuto which is slower than him ( Mach 500 or even slower if he lied )

And Ichigo was pretty fine after his fight againts Ulquiorra R2 iirc

 

[HokageMangaVox]

Mach 600 ? He couldn't even REACT or SEE Gin's Zanpakuto which is slower than him ( Mach 500 or even slower if he lied )

And Ichigo was pretty fine after his fight againts Ulquiorra R2 iirc

If he coudln't react to it, Ichigo's head would be rolling on the ground. Gin amd Aizen were at MHS+ Since they were blitzing all the Captains. Ichigo is MHS confirm by the databook. Yeah, he was fine because Unohana heal some of his wounds yet he fought five enemies one after another without resting.