Bleach Soul Physiology,mind manipulation and absorption reistance.

[Reio35]

Shinigami physiology( low tier souls)- Sleep Manipulation and memory manipulation with Kikanshinki a device given to all soul reapers which they used to put a town of 100,000+ humans to sleep and erase their memory.

Chapter 2-5,Cfyow 2 chapter 10


Soul Physiology (low tier) Unconventional Reistance to sleep and memory manipulation Kikanshinki doesn't work on reishi matter bodies

Hollow Physiology(low tier) power absorption reistance,qunciy medallions can't steal hollow powers because it's poison to them. Absorption reistance qunicy must first decompose hollow power before absorbing it.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Agreed.

 

[Eganergo]

Shinigami physiology( low tier souls)- Sleep Manipulation and memory manipulation with Kikanshinki a device given to all soul reapers which they used to put a town of 100,000+ humans to sleep and erase their memory.

Chapter 2-5,Cfyow 2 chapter 10


Soul Physiology (low tier) Unconventional Reistance to sleep and memory manipulation Kikanshinki doesn't work on reishi matter bodies

Hollow Physiology(low tier) power absorption reistance,qunciy medallions can't steal hollow powers because it's poison to them. Absorption reistance qunicy must first decompose hollow power before absorbing it.

Dunno about the first two, but I disagree with the third one. Quincy is weak to hollow. Doesn't mean that hollow resist absorption. It's an anti- feat for quincy, but not a feat for hollow.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Dunno about the first two, but I disagree with the third one. Quincy is weak to hollow. Doesn't mean that hollow resist absorption. It's an anti- feat for quincy, but not a feat for hollow.

Quincys just dont have antibodies against hollows which are already accepted to have a poisonous nature. It's perfectly valid cross verse as other characters wouldn't inherently have antibodies unless they can resist soul based poison.

 

[Eganergo]

Quincys just dont have antibodies against hollows which are already accepted to have a poisonous nature. It's perfectly valid cross verse as other characters wouldn't inherently have antibodies unless they can resist soul based poison.

Exactly. That's why they can't absorb hollow. Not because hollow can't be absorbed in nature. OP is trying to give resistance to power absorption for hollow.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Exactly. That's why they can't absorb hollow. Not because hollow can't be absorbed in nature. OP is trying to give resistance to power absorption for hollow.

It'd be an unconventional resistance. Quincy can theoretically absorb them but they instinctively dont.

 

[Deceived3596]

@LephyrTheRevanchist @KingTempest @Damage3245 @LordTracer

 

[Myxenete]

Agree with everything but absorption for Eganergo's reasons

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Agree FRA (@BestMGQScalerEver Makes more sense)

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Hollow Physiology(low tier) power absorption reistance,qunciy medallions can't steal hollow powers because it's poison to them.

This isn't a resistance, there no mention of them being simply unable to absorb the hollow reishi its is just poisonous to them so they don't absorb it

Absorption reistance qunicy must first decompose hollow power before absorbing it.

It'd be an unconventional resistance. Quincy can theoretically absorb them but they instinctively dont.

This also doesn't seem to be a resistance. Quinces can seemingly absorb the hollow reishi but it is dangerous to them so they have to break it down first to in the words of the passage "Absorb without harm".

It's like if you tried to ingest something like Cyanogen chloride gas (CNCl) but obviously its poisonous to you so you decide to break it down to individual Chlorin, Nitrogen and Carbon atoms first. The gas is still ingestible in both forms but one is dangerous while the other isn't.

It isn't unconventional resistance either it is what is already listed in the Physiology page (Corruption/Poison Manipulation etc.) all that has to be done is that it might be added that if someone doesn't have some means of resisting the aforementioned effects they will succumb to those effects if they attempt to absorb a hollows reishi.

 

[Reio35]

This isn't a resistance, there no mention of them being simply unable to absorb the hollow reishi its is just poisonous to them so they don't absorb it


This also doesn't seem to be a resistance. Quinces can seemingly absorb the hollow reishi but it is dangerous to them so they have to break it down first to in the words of the passage "Absorb without harm".

It's like if you tried to ingest something like Cyanogen chloride gas (CNCl) but obviously its poisonous to you so you decide to break it down to individual Chlorin, Nitrogen and Carbon atoms first. The gas is still ingestible in both forms but one is dangerous while the other isn't.

It isn't unconventional resistance either it is what is already listed in the Physiology page (Corruption/Poison Manipulation etc.) all that has to be done is that it might be added that if someone doesn't have some means of resisting the aforementioned effects they will succumb to those effects if they attempt to absorb a hollows reishi.

Ebern wasn't able to absorb his power at all. Hollow power doesn't even allow them steal it. And in the anime quilge couldn't either.

Also ichibei has Unconventional Reistance to power absorption for a similar reason his powers can be stolen but they can not be used by anyone other than him. Hollow power can be stolen but due to its toxic nature it prevents the absorption from even taking place.

 

[AppleLord]

Ebern wasn't able to absorb his power at all. Hollow power doesn't even allow them steal it.


Also ichibei has Unconventional Reistance to power absorption for a similar reason his powers can be stolen but they can not be used by anyone other than him. Hollow power can be stolen but due to its toxic nature it prevents the absorption from even taking place.

This is not the case. Its not confirmed the reason to why Ebern couldn't steal that bankai. Later Yamamoto implies that is because it hasn't mature enough. But we also know from Yhwach that you need you have an equal amount of strenght to wield it. Ebern is not Ichigo's equal. And the most likely is because Ichigo never had a bankai to begin with. He never had a real zanpakutou until later on in the story.

"Soul Physiology (low tier) Unconventional Reistance to sleep and memory manipulation Kikanshinki doesn't work on reishi matter bodies"

I also disagree with this. Is an anti-feat for the machine tool. Not a resistance for reishi bodies. The machine cannot affect reishi bodies period.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Ebern wasn't able to absorb his power at all.

That doesn't have anything to do with the hollow powers and they never even once say it has anything to do with his hollow powers, the logic your using wouldn't even make sense since Ebern is literally an arrancar himself

Also ichibei has Unconventional Reistance to power absorption for a similar reason his powers can be stolen but they can't not be used by anyone other than him. Hollow power can be stolen but it can not be used as it’s poison to anyone without antibodies.

They aren't similar reasons when Ichibei gets his powers stolen they just don't work for whoever stole them while the hollows reishi is poisonous/corruptive etc so if you absorb it without resistance to the poison/corruption etc you get screwed meaning if you do have resistance to the poison/corruption its practically useless which can't be said for Ichibeis

If you have resistance to the aforementioned effects of the Hollows reishi you can absorb it with 0 drawback while the same can't be said for Ichibeis situation

 

[Reio35]

This is not the case. Its not confirmed the reason to why Ebern couldn't steal that bankai. Later Yamamoto implies that is because it hasn't mature enough. But we also know from Yhwach that you need you have an equal amount of strenght to wield it.

Yhwach stated royd could have taken he just wasn't strong enough to use it right.

Ebern is not Ichigo's equal. And the most likely is because Ichigo never had a bankai to begin with. He never had a real zanpakutou until later on in the story.

Kubo already confirmed this on klub outside And kisuke said this was the reason they couldn't take Ichigo's bankai

Q339:
Was Ichigo’s Bankai unable to be stolen by the medallion due to it being mixed with Hollow power?
A339:
Yes.

"Soul Physiology (low tier) Unconventional Reistance to sleep and memory manipulation Kikanshinki doesn't work on reishi matter bodies"

I also disagree with this. Is an anti-feat for the machine tool. Not a resistance for reishi bodies. The machine cannot affect reishi bodies period.

That's why it's unconventional due not having a physical body

 

[Reio35]

That doesn't have anything to do with the hollow powers and they never even once say it has anything to do with his hollow powers, the logic your using wouldn't even make sense since Ebern is literally an arrancar himself




They aren't similar reasons when Ichibei gets his powers stolen they just don't work for whoever stole them while the hollows reishi is poisonous/corruptive etc so if you absorb it without resistance to the poison/corruption etc you get screwed meaning if you do have resistance to the poison/corruption its practically useless which can't be said for Ichibeis

If you have resistance to the aforementioned effects of the Hollows reishi you can absorb it with 0 drawback while the same can't be said for Ichibeis situation

Well kubo said it was the case on klub outside so mute point.

Q339:
Was Ichigo’s Bankai unable to be stolen by the medallion due to it being mixed with Hollow power?
A339:
Yes.

 

[Reio35]

"Of course, simple resistance to one showing of an ability isn't enough to ignore all uses of that ability, as some applications may be far stronger, while others may work differently, meaning they must be resisted differently. As a result, when resistance is listed on a page, it's important to describe the specifics.

Qualifying for Immunity is difficult, as no simple show of resistance is enough, and statements could easily be hyperbole or only apply in-verse. Immunity should only be given when the user in question entirely lacks what would normally be affected. An inorganic being, for example, has no biological components to manipulate, and an entity without a soul won't be harmed by Soul Manipulation."


according to the reistance page it might just be outright immunity to sleep manipulation and memory because they have no physical body for it to work on

 

[Reio35]

Bump

 

[Arcker123]

Agree with memory manip and resistance towards it

Disagree with the power absorption stuff though. As others said, it's a weakness of the quincy

 

[Reio35]

Agree with memory manip and resistance towards it

Disagree with the power absorption stuff though. As others said, it's a weakness of the quincy

It's because they don't have anti bodies to hollows its not a qunicy exclusive thing

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I definitely agree with that

 

[Sasukesolos]

I disagree with them getting resistance to mind manipulation, memory manipulation. Solely based on the statement centered around youruichi’s conversation with kisuke where she’s teasing him.

Even at face value this statement alone “you know it would only work on humans in the world of the living”.

We have no idea to why it doesn’t work on hollows/ soul reapers alike because of this unknown factor. Interpretations are open to suggestion, It could vary well be a limitation/ weakness within the Kikanshinki device. It could vary well be designed to target a specific group only.

There is nothing presented in the op that suggests it doesn’t work because they are resistant. Do this & the lack of evidence presented I disagree.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Except this shit failed to work on spiritually aware humans … the very obvious and blatant answer is that more SE = you resist.

 

[Reio35]

I disagree with them getting resistance to mind manipulation, memory manipulation. Solely based on the statement centered around youruichi’s conversation with kisuke where she’s teasing him.

Even at face value this statement alone “you know it would only work on humans in the world of the living”.

We have no idea to why it doesn’t work on hollows/ soul reapers alike because of this unknown factor. Interpretations are open to suggestion, It could vary well be a limitation/ weakness within the Kikanshinki device. It could vary well be designed to target a specific group only.

There is nothing presented in the op that suggests it doesn’t work because they are resistant. Do this & the lack of evidence presented I disagree.

It's stated because it doesn't work on reishi bodies. It's because their spirits with no physical body

 

[Sasukesolos]

It's stated because it doesn't work on reishi bodies. It's because their spirits with no physical body

Yea that sounds like an inherent weakness in the device. rather than attributing to some imaginary resistance. mind manipulation isn’t reliant on the targets having a physical body or not so long as they have a mind they should be susceptible.

 

[Sasukesolos]

Except this shit failed to work on spiritually aware humans … the very obvious and blatant answer is that more SE = you resist.

I’m sorry but I don’t see that in the op. Keep in mind I’m open minded. when you say “failed” like are they immune or?

 

[Reio35]

Yea that sounds like an inherent weakness in the device. rather than attributing to some imaginary resistance. mind manipulation isn’t reliant on the targets having a physical body or not so long as they have a mind they should be susceptible.

It's not read what I posted earlier you get reistance or immunity if you lack the necessary components needed for said ability to work. You need a physical body for this device to work soul reapers don't have one so it doesn't work.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I disagree with them getting resistance to mind manipulation, memory manipulation. Solely based on the statement centered around youruichi’s conversation with kisuke where she’s teasing him.

Even at face value this statement alone “you know it would only work on humans in the world of the living”.

We have no idea to why it doesn’t work on hollows/ soul reapers alike because of this unknown factor. Interpretations are open to suggestion, It could vary well be a limitation/ weakness within the Kikanshinki device. It could vary well be designed to target a specific group only.

There is nothing presented in the op that suggests it doesn’t work because they are resistant. Do this & the lack of evidence presented I disagree.

I disagree with the same reasons.

 

[Sasukesolos]

It's not read what I posted earlier you get reistance or immunity if you lack the necessary components needed for said ability to work. You need a physical body for this device to work soul reapers don't have one so it doesn't work.

I’ve read what you said previously and what you are saying now. Lacking the necessary components to proc said ability suggests inability/ limitations of the ability. rather than the targets being immune or resistant to the same types of ability in general.

what you are saying is more along the lines of “because humans lack the components of Kryptonians and are completely immune to Kryptonite. they would also have this immunity or resistance to the same ability effects applied outside of Kryptonite.

Not saying this is what you specifically stated but the lines you are approaching.

mind manipulation in general doesn’t care wether the mind has a physical body or not. This device having this limitation tells me it doesn’t attribute to resistance.

 

[Arcker123]

Literally all of this is cope. It's your burden to prove a weakness, and we just normally assume resistance unless shown.

I disagree with them getting resistance to mind manipulation, memory manipulation. Solely based on the statement centered around youruichi’s conversation with kisuke where she’s teasing him.

Even at face value this statement alone “you know it would only work on humans in the world of the living”.

We have no idea to why it doesn’t work on hollows/ soul reapers alike because of this unknown factor. Interpretations are open to suggestion, It could vary well be a limitation/ weakness within the Kikanshinki device. It could vary well be designed to target a specific group only.

There is nothing presented in the op that suggests it doesn’t work because they are resistant. Do this & the lack of evidence presented I disagree.

 

[Sasukesolos]

Literally all of this is cope. It's your burden to prove a weakness, and we just normally assume resistance unless shown.

resistance has to proven not assumed. More importantly, the op doesn’t present material that supports resistance. I’m simply saying what was presented can easily be interpreted another way. By the way your response to me is actual cope

 

[Arcker123]

resistance has to proven not assumed. More importantly, the op doesn’t present material that supports resistance. I’m simply saying what was presented can easily be interpreted another way. By the way your response to me is actual cope

Broski. It's been shown that reishi bodies aren't affected by memory manip. It'd be your burden to show why the simplest explanation of resistance is inaccurate. I'm saying we have no reason to accept this claim over the one in the OP.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

resistance has to proven not assumed. More importantly, the op doesn’t present material that supports resistance. I’m simply saying what was presented can easily be interpreted another way. By the way your response to me is actual cope

I think you don't understand what it means Unconventional Resistance.

 

[Sasukesolos]

Broski. It's been shown that reishi bodies aren't affected by memory manip. It'd be your burden to show why the simplest explanation of resistance is inaccurate. I'm saying we have no reason to accept this claim over the one in the OP.

. What you’re doing now is actually arguing for the creator of the op. Nowhere in the op is it shown reishi bodies are not affected by memory manipulation. I believe I made this clear but the claim for resistance isn’t objective here. That this attributing to such isn’t a justified because of the statement presented.

im simply asking you to show why this accounts to resistance in the simplest way possible. This device has no interaction of being used on a spiritual body.

 

[Sasukesolos]

I think you don't understand what it means Unconventional Resistance.

Enlighten me.

 

[Arcker123]

. What you’re doing now is actually arguing for the creator of the op. Nowhere in the op is it shown reishi bodies are not affected by memory manipulation. I believe I made this clear but the claim for resistance isn’t objective here. That this attributing to such isn’t a justified because of the statement presented.

Kikanshinki doesn't work on reishi matter bodies

No reason why u think this. U still have yet to fufill ur burden.

 

[Sasukesolos]

No reason why u think this. U still have yet to fufill ur burden.

I never made the positive claim of resistance…… I’m asking what supports this claim? Why do you believe the op saying the device in question doesn’t work on spiritual bodies therefore inherently means spiritual bodies can’t be affected by memory manipulation.

Nothing presented shows why it doesn’t work. assuming it’s solely do to resistance is completely arbitrary.

that’s like saying the otsutsuki should all have resistance to mind manipulation, empathetic manipulation because Ada’s love charm is stated not to affect them.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I never made the positive claim of resistance…… I’m asking what supports this claim? Why do you believe the op saying the device in question doesn’t work on spiritual bodies therefore inherently means spiritual bodies can’t be affected by memory manipulation.

Nothing presented shows why it doesn’t work. assuming it’s solely do to resistance is completely arbitrary.

that’s like saying the otsutsuki should all have resistance to mind manipulation, empathetic manipulation because Ada’s love charm is stated not to affect them.

Otustuki are not souls/Spiritual beings.

Physical Mind < Spiritual Mind < Conceptual Mind.

Unconventional Resistance refers to Difference between these. Not some aliens having immunity to certain characteristics because they designed it to be.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I’m sorry but I don’t see that in the op. Keep in mind I’m open minded. when you say “failed” like are they immune or?

The memory manip originally works on Orihime prior to her becoming spiritually aware (stronger soul). After Rukia is taken back to SS, no one remembers her besides Ichigo who didn’t have the memory device used on him, the only person Ichigo thinks can remember is Uryu (the one person he knows is spiritually aware), Orihime isn’t affected my the memory manip with the only difference from the first instance is her spiritually aware, Ichigo associates Orihime remembering with her spiritual awareness.

Combine the implications of chapter 58 with the scans in the OP and it becomes blatantly obvious why it “only works on kishi bodies”. The moment someone dies and their soul exits a body, the konpaku automatically becomes stronger as evidenced by it being spiritually aware when it wasn’t previously ergo a reishi body is unaffected by the Kikanshinki due to the strength of their soul just like spiritually aware humans are unaffected.

 

[Arcker123]

I never made the positive claim of resistance…… I’m asking what supports this claim? Why do you believe the op saying the device in question doesn’t work on spiritual bodies therefore inherently means spiritual bodies can’t be affected by memory manipulation.

I'm making an occams razor arg appealing to the simplest solution. I'm asking u to provide a rebuttal to that.

 

[Sasukesolos]

Otustuki are not souls/Spiritual beings.

Physical Mind < Spiritual Mind < Conceptual Mind.

Unconventional Resistance refers to Difference between these. Not some aliens having immunity to certain characteristics because they designed it to be.

The point in that comparison wasn’t reliant on the otsutsuki being physical/ spiritual beings. That really doesn’t matter its more so reliant on the statement of “said ability can’t work on them” similar to how you’ve interpreted the Kikanshinki device.

which apparently, is enough to substantiate some kind of resistance.

when you say “physical mind” are you referring to the mind within a physical body? vise versa regarding the spiritual mind? If so what makes the physical mind inferior?

Unconventional resistance refers to resistance by other means, factors that makes the hax/ ability ineffective. I can just as easily say “not some death gods who designed a tool to work on the same people they protect because they designed it to be”.