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Bleach Revisions: Continuation
- Thread starter Soldier_Blue
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- bleach
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Justify what? Edrad's calc got approved by a member of the calc group, so it's all set and done.
What do you mean he doesn't? If you haven't been reading the past few threads talking about the upgrades, don't come in and say stuff like that. Go to Toshiro's profile and you'll find the feat. It's not that hard. It's also been talked about probably a hundred times in the past week or so.
What do you mean he doesn't? If you haven't been reading the past few threads talking about the upgrades, don't come in and say stuff like that. Go to Toshiro's profile and you'll find the feat. It's not that hard. It's also been talked about probably a hundred times in the past week or so.
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Speaking of discussing bleach we need discussion thread for it again
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I did get a little carried away there. You have my apology. I'm just not a big fan of people who don't read the full thread before commenting.
Anyway, in the fight with Ikkaku, edrad basically nuked him with a huge blast of fire that was calced at town level and was approved by a member of the calc group. Ikkaku also survived this attack in his base form. So Ikkaku, yumichika, The lieutenants and the Arrancar fraction all scale to town level with Ikkaku. And as Kuu pointed out, soul society arc shikai Ichigo also scales.
Anyway, in the fight with Ikkaku, edrad basically nuked him with a huge blast of fire that was calced at town level and was approved by a member of the calc group. Ikkaku also survived this attack in his base form. So Ikkaku, yumichika, The lieutenants and the Arrancar fraction all scale to town level with Ikkaku. And as Kuu pointed out, soul society arc shikai Ichigo also scales.
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The three of them should scale to Sajin then. It wouldn't make sense for Mayuri's bankai to be weaker than Sajin's shikai. And we all know captains are a considerable amount stronger than other soul reapers on Ikkaku's level.
Aareniaro being Town level doesn't really bug me, I'm neutral on him. Just thought it was worth bringing up.
Aareniaro being Town level doesn't really bug me, I'm neutral on him. Just thought it was worth bringing up.
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First off thanks for the apology.Amlad22 said:
Ikkaku is actually one of the strongest Lts, Renji even considers him captain level so I wouldn't scale weaker characters to him without solid feats of their own. Plus if he's town level than it means 90% of the characters have to get a bump which skews things sonsiderably.
Regardless first we have to check this source. Could someone add that calculation to this thread so we can get some imput on it please?
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Never mind I found it. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Piercer_of_Heaven/Bleach_Calc_-_Ikkaku_Tanks_Shit
This looks like some effort was put into it. I don't pretend to understand the math behind it put I seriously doubt Kubo put this kindof thought behind it. The attack just looks like its City block level visually.
Also "tank" is a strong word given Ikkaku's shikai broke under it and he's bleeding heavily.
This looks like some effort was put into it. I don't pretend to understand the math behind it put I seriously doubt Kubo put this kindof thought behind it. The attack just looks like its City block level visually.
Also "tank" is a strong word given Ikkaku's shikai broke under it and he's bleeding heavily.
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The calc has already been approved by a member of the calc group, so there's no debating it at this point.
Ikkaku is powerful, but when he tanked the attack in question, he was only in base. That's why the Lieutenants scale.
What exactly would be skewed up? Kuu didn't seem to find any problems and he's one of the best bleach people on this wiki.
Ikkaku is powerful, but when he tanked the attack in question, he was only in base. That's why the Lieutenants scale.
What exactly would be skewed up? Kuu didn't seem to find any problems and he's one of the best bleach people on this wiki.
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I think Dr.Fix makes a decent point. Ikkaku is probably a high end lieutenant tier so im not sure all of them should scale. Like Omaeda.
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@Dr.Fix all of the captains, espada and sternritter have been upgraded already too, this is why I recommend reading the rest of the thread before commenting.
@LordAizenSama Obviously he wouldn't scale, but for the ones we have profiles for, like izuru, Shuhei, and Rangiku, they all scale since anything Ikkaku can tank in base, they should be able to tank in shikai.
@LordAizenSama Obviously he wouldn't scale, but for the ones we have profiles for, like izuru, Shuhei, and Rangiku, they all scale since anything Ikkaku can tank in base, they should be able to tank in shikai.
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They all scale except Omeada who had no feats.
We aren't scaling them to Ikkaku. The fodder fraccion did the feat and all the fraccions should be comparable to each other. Most of the lieutenants fought them. Even then they should be comparable or stronger then Chad who defeated a privaron who are former Espada and they are stronger then fraccions.
We aren't scaling them to Ikkaku. The fodder fraccion did the feat and all the fraccions should be comparable to each other. Most of the lieutenants fought them. Even then they should be comparable or stronger then Chad who defeated a privaron who are former Espada and they are stronger then fraccions.
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goodnight
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- Thread starter
- #103
@Kuuichigo
Thanks. Will do so later.
@Dr. Fix
Ikkaku tanked Edrad's blast in his base state. That scales to his AP as well since reiatsu used for defence also is used for offence. And after going Bankai, Ikkaku states that he'd release far greater levels of reiatsu compared to before. Yumichika is roughly comparable to or only slightly weaker than base Ikkaku and solid Lieutenant level. Hisagi was stomping Yumichika till he used his true Shikai and won via its hax. Izuru and Rangiku are both comparable to Hisagi. Then there's Iba, who is also comparable to Ikkaku. Hinamori may be shit as an officer but she's been portrayed as being comparable to Izuru and Rangiku.
See where I'm going with this? It does scale to most of the Lieutenant level combatants in the series.
Yeah, it's been made clear that the Fraccion are not all equal. Rinker is a prime example. Got stomped by Rukia. Then there's the fact that Shawlong is the strongest of Grimmjow's Fraccion.
Not sure about Omaeda. I don't know what to do with him. Perhaps just plain Town level instead of Town level+ or what? He's crap compared to the other Lieutenants but he is still a Lieutenant.
Thanks. Will do so later.
@Dr. Fix
Ikkaku tanked Edrad's blast in his base state. That scales to his AP as well since reiatsu used for defence also is used for offence. And after going Bankai, Ikkaku states that he'd release far greater levels of reiatsu compared to before. Yumichika is roughly comparable to or only slightly weaker than base Ikkaku and solid Lieutenant level. Hisagi was stomping Yumichika till he used his true Shikai and won via its hax. Izuru and Rangiku are both comparable to Hisagi. Then there's Iba, who is also comparable to Ikkaku. Hinamori may be shit as an officer but she's been portrayed as being comparable to Izuru and Rangiku.
See where I'm going with this? It does scale to most of the Lieutenant level combatants in the series.
Yeah, it's been made clear that the Fraccion are not all equal. Rinker is a prime example. Got stomped by Rukia. Then there's the fact that Shawlong is the strongest of Grimmjow's Fraccion.
Not sure about Omaeda. I don't know what to do with him. Perhaps just plain Town level instead of Town level+ or what? He's crap compared to the other Lieutenants but he is still a Lieutenant.
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I never said they were equal, I said they should be comparable.
Renji contradicts himself. The moment they were unrestricted, they one-shotted them. Also he was talking about his restricted self seeing as how they had to wait for permission to unrestrict themselves and he would of course had lost if the fraccions went all out.
I agree with Soldier.
Renji contradicts himself. The moment they were unrestricted, they one-shotted them. Also he was talking about his restricted self seeing as how they had to wait for permission to unrestrict themselves and he would of course had lost if the fraccions went all out.
I agree with Soldier.
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Yammy made Tōshirō's Shikai look cute and Szayel has more reiatsu than hi based on the Rankings.
Espada 9 is an exception to the rules.
Mayuri is a Captain. Just because he uses drugs to fight, doesn't mean he's any weaker than the rest. He's also quite old.
Omaeda can fight Fracción, so he should get Town level+.
Starrk's profile is wanked, btw. Absolutely nothing puts him at Island level+ while Sealed. He should be scaled to At least Large Town level like the rest.
Nnoitra has the best Hierro in the Espada. So, his durability should be At least Large Town level while Sealed And At least Island level+ in Resurrección.
Yammy>Starrk. So he scales to Island level+.
Well, that's if Starrk is still being scaled to Island level+, despite glaring issues with that.
Espada 9 is an exception to the rules.
Mayuri is a Captain. Just because he uses drugs to fight, doesn't mean he's any weaker than the rest. He's also quite old.
Omaeda can fight Fracción, so he should get Town level+.
Starrk's profile is wanked, btw. Absolutely nothing puts him at Island level+ while Sealed. He should be scaled to At least Large Town level like the rest.
Nnoitra has the best Hierro in the Espada. So, his durability should be At least Large Town level while Sealed And At least Island level+ in Resurrección.
Yammy>Starrk. So he scales to Island level+.
Well, that's if Starrk is still being scaled to Island level+, despite glaring issues with that.
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- Thread starter
- #106
Yammy: He stood up to Hitsugaya's Shikai and should scale to High 7-C (consistent with him being Captain level after all). Scaling Szayelaporro from him in turn also makes sense.
Aaroniero: Not sure what to do with him. He should still be superior to the likes of Edrad and Ikkaku. At least Town level+ scaling from them then?
Mayuri: Makes sense to me. He does have Captain level reiatsu and should be far superior to the likes of Ikkaku and Edrad. And I do not think he'd have less reiatsu than Yammy.
Aaroniero: Not sure what to do with him. He should still be superior to the likes of Edrad and Ikkaku. At least Town level+ scaling from them then?
Mayuri: Makes sense to me. He does have Captain level reiatsu and should be far superior to the likes of Ikkaku and Edrad. And I do not think he'd have less reiatsu than Yammy.
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Seriously. I know we use reiatsu for scaling but we can't abuse it for people whose feats don't match what they are stated to be. The rankings also.
Why do you think I don't just go to every profile and just use the ranks and reiatsu reasoning. It's getting ridiculous at this point.
Did you read what is on his Starrk's profile? You keep bringing it up.
For Nnoitra: hell no. You said Starrk being Island level+ is wanked despite being able to fight Shunsui, but go on to say Nnoitra should have Island level+ durability when he got cut by a Kenpachi that was subconsciously holding himself back.
Again with the rankings. Yammy got defeated by a Byakuya and Kenpachi who were more interested in fighting each other.
I have no issues with using reiatsu (due to how it is) and rankings (to an extent), but they should preferably coincide with feats.
Edit: @Soldier: Yammy is High 7-C already. i don't agree with Szayelaporro scaling. Uryu and Renji were able to fight him and hurt him in base form (Renji) for god sakes.
I already said Aaroniero scales to Edrad.
I also don't think Mayuri scales. Uryu was able to fight him. Unless you want to tell me Uryu is a Captain level at this point.
Why do you think I don't just go to every profile and just use the ranks and reiatsu reasoning. It's getting ridiculous at this point.
Did you read what is on his Starrk's profile? You keep bringing it up.
For Nnoitra: hell no. You said Starrk being Island level+ is wanked despite being able to fight Shunsui, but go on to say Nnoitra should have Island level+ durability when he got cut by a Kenpachi that was subconsciously holding himself back.
Again with the rankings. Yammy got defeated by a Byakuya and Kenpachi who were more interested in fighting each other.
I have no issues with using reiatsu (due to how it is) and rankings (to an extent), but they should preferably coincide with feats.
Edit: @Soldier: Yammy is High 7-C already. i don't agree with Szayelaporro scaling. Uryu and Renji were able to fight him and hurt him in base form (Renji) for god sakes.
I already said Aaroniero scales to Edrad.
I also don't think Mayuri scales. Uryu was able to fight him. Unless you want to tell me Uryu is a Captain level at this point.
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I've also got a problem, shouldn't Yamamoto's Shikai be at least comparable to Shikai Kenpachi's ? I mean, his Bankai should be superior to Gerard.
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- Thread starter
- #109
@Kuuichigo
Okay then. I'll just scale Szayelaporro to Town level+ then. Ditto for Mayuri.
I agree completely on Nnoitra, Starrk, and Resurreccion Yammy.
Okay then. I'll just scale Szayelaporro to Town level+ then. Ditto for Mayuri.
I agree completely on Nnoitra, Starrk, and Resurreccion Yammy.
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@soldierblue
Okay well let me ask you a question. How does one define "Tanked" here? Ikkaku was greviously injured from Endorad and had his weapon destroyed. If Endrad is town level (Which I dsiagree with but I'll use it for now as an example) than making Ikkaku townlevel would be his equal and to me an attack from one's equal shouldn't end with one guy having his weapon destroyed and being tossed around.
Yumichika never scaled to Ikkaku that I'm aware of. Maybe with his OP Shikai but his base skills are limited to as you said losing to hisagi as well as to Charlotte.
Saying something doesn't make it true. I don't recall Izuru being comparable to hisagi, or matsumoto for that matter. The former defeated another fraccion but we don't know how Redder compares to fiddor, plus he used hax which seems to be a seperate issue here from the posts I've read. Matsumoto was getting owned by Niggre until she got the surprise on him with the release and that was still only base niggre. She latter was getting over powered by Apachi so unless I'm missing something I don't see her being at the level of fraccion less Ikkaku.
Okay well let me ask you a question. How does one define "Tanked" here? Ikkaku was greviously injured from Endorad and had his weapon destroyed. If Endrad is town level (Which I dsiagree with but I'll use it for now as an example) than making Ikkaku townlevel would be his equal and to me an attack from one's equal shouldn't end with one guy having his weapon destroyed and being tossed around.
Yumichika never scaled to Ikkaku that I'm aware of. Maybe with his OP Shikai but his base skills are limited to as you said losing to hisagi as well as to Charlotte.
Saying something doesn't make it true. I don't recall Izuru being comparable to hisagi, or matsumoto for that matter. The former defeated another fraccion but we don't know how Redder compares to fiddor, plus he used hax which seems to be a seperate issue here from the posts I've read. Matsumoto was getting owned by Niggre until she got the surprise on him with the release and that was still only base niggre. She latter was getting over powered by Apachi so unless I'm missing something I don't see her being at the level of fraccion less Ikkaku.
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@Dr.Fix Ikkaku was only badly hurt after edrad got serious. Before that he took 2 direct fire attacks in his base form and still had the Reiatsu to go shikai. Then edrad got serious and beat him.
As for the other Lieutenants, Shuhei dominated Findor in his shikai, so he's above the average fraction, and izuru is usually shown as his equal more or less. Rangiku is weaker but has shown to be capable of holding her own against izuru and was confident that at full power she could fend off the tres bestas on her own, she wasn't overpowered until Ayon showed up. So all three of them are fraction level and scale to a casual edrad. That does bring up another point though, if edrad's Town level+ feat was done casually, shouldn't him at full power and Bankai Ikkaku he large town level? Or still town level+ due to lack of feats?
Starrk is vastly above the espada, he fought Shunsui and Ukitake at the same time. Meanwhile barragan and Halibel have to try to beat Soifon and Toshiro. Who are far weaker than Shunsui and Ukitake. He's also the only espada that Aizen recognized as powerful.
As for the other Lieutenants, Shuhei dominated Findor in his shikai, so he's above the average fraction, and izuru is usually shown as his equal more or less. Rangiku is weaker but has shown to be capable of holding her own against izuru and was confident that at full power she could fend off the tres bestas on her own, she wasn't overpowered until Ayon showed up. So all three of them are fraction level and scale to a casual edrad. That does bring up another point though, if edrad's Town level+ feat was done casually, shouldn't him at full power and Bankai Ikkaku he large town level? Or still town level+ due to lack of feats?
Starrk is vastly above the espada, he fought Shunsui and Ukitake at the same time. Meanwhile barragan and Halibel have to try to beat Soifon and Toshiro. Who are far weaker than Shunsui and Ukitake. He's also the only espada that Aizen recognized as powerful.
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- Thread starter
- #115
@Amlad22
Town level+ is fine. There'd be no justification for Large Town level Lieutenants and Fraccion. Poww couldn't put a scratch on Komamura.
Town level+ is fine. There'd be no justification for Large Town level Lieutenants and Fraccion. Poww couldn't put a scratch on Komamura.
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Not really sure if we can scale her from it but Orihime blocked a fair few of Yhwach's casual attacks, and it's not like he was holding back since they were meant for Ichigo.
If we don't scale AP from that she should definitely get a speed upgrade to MHS+
Blocks Yhwach
Blocks Yhwach Agai
If we don't scale AP from that she should definitely get a speed upgrade to MHS+
Blocks Yhwach
Blocks Yhwach Agai
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@Soldier That's what I expected. Are you the one who's going to handle the lieutenants and fractions revisions? I wouldn't mind helping out. The only characters left to finalize are Szayel, Mayuri and Uryu. They all are above fraction level and should be comparable or if not superior to Yammy. Also I noticed post timeskip Mayuri hasn't been upgraded to Island level, he's still at mountain level. He scales to Pernida.
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I'm still not hearing justification for town level TBh. Mtasumoto didn't dominate but rather was OP as I said already and the rest is conjecture.
Shunsui was made by his battle with Starrk. He(In shikai) scales to him who we know scales close to barra and harri respectively by Shunsui's own admission. As well as rose and Love by feats and Yammy> by rank and feats (Fought two captain levels as well as several weaker characters before that).
Shunsui was made by his battle with Starrk. He(In shikai) scales to him who we know scales close to barra and harri respectively by Shunsui's own admission. As well as rose and Love by feats and Yammy> by rank and feats (Fought two captain levels as well as several weaker characters before that).
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- Thread starter
- #119
@Dr. Fix
I already explained it above. Ikkaku blocked a casual attack from Edrad that was calc'ed at Town level+ in base. He started unleashing way more reiatsu once he went Bankai and Edrad also started using way more of his own power in response to the constantly rising reiatsu of Ikkaku's Bankai (read chapter 205).
I already explained it above. Ikkaku blocked a casual attack from Edrad that was calc'ed at Town level+ in base. He started unleashing way more reiatsu once he went Bankai and Edrad also started using way more of his own power in response to the constantly rising reiatsu of Ikkaku's Bankai (read chapter 205).
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@Dr.Fix Soldier and myself have given more than enough justification for the scaling. The only way the upgrades won't happen at this point is if you can somehow prove that the calc was done wrong, but it's been approved by a calc group memeber so that probably won't happen.
Starrk isn't close to Barragan and Halibel though, he fought two captains that are vastly more powerful than the captains barragan and Halibel fought. The feats speak for themselves. Also saying Yammy is above Starrk also goes against shown feats, but that has already been concluded so i won't bring it up again.
Starrk isn't close to Barragan and Halibel though, he fought two captains that are vastly more powerful than the captains barragan and Halibel fought. The feats speak for themselves. Also saying Yammy is above Starrk also goes against shown feats, but that has already been concluded so i won't bring it up again.
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