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You literally posted a page showing a small Earthquake as evidence of the planets being literally destroyed.
You did it in post #388 10 minutes ago.
You did it in post #388 10 minutes ago.
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Bleach revision summary
- Thread starter LordAizenSama
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- bleach
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Completely out of context and headcanon. The novel also said the earthquake was felt in the entire planet and it was a long one, that people started creating religions out of it. Since you haven't debunked the manga. I'll wait for whatever you come up with.Matthew Schroeder said:
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"And it isn't a level that was directly stated. Only through a specific misinterpretation one reaches that"
Was this misinterpretation stated directly from the manga in question, or is this just headcanon on your end?
"Quote where I said that the planet was going to explode by an earthquake"
Which chapter and page is this stated? This could be of relevance.
Was this misinterpretation stated directly from the manga in question, or is this just headcanon on your end?
"Quote where I said that the planet was going to explode by an earthquake"
Which chapter and page is this stated? This could be of relevance.
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I posted a scan. Never said they have destroyed a planet with a small quake.Matthew Schroeder said:
Quote:
A voice reverberated down the alley. It seemed to emanate from one of the parked cars, possibly from a radio.
"It is good that this world will remain in its present condition. But what people really need is a new world."
"What?"
Mizuiro clarifies their confusion.
"Recently, a religious cult has been on the rise. It emerged around the same time the earthquake took place half a year ago. It was quite a severe earthquake." (he's talking about the earthquake that took place after Ichigo slashed the Soul King)
The earthquake had continued for a long time, but there was no scientific explanation for it. Many people had felt that it was the work of some inexplicably strong force, something that could not be defined by science or logic.
As anxiety and uneasiness took root within people's minds, several religious sects cropped up world-wide. Now this particular religious cult has been steadily gaining momentum.
Adding to Mizuiro's story, Keigo joins in too.
"The founder of this religious sect is said to perform"
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When the collapse of souls takes place this happens, as you can see everything is collapsing on itself without any physical intervention from anyone. When Yhwach was destroying them, you can see his (reiatsu) energy doing it.Khristis said:
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FACTS remain undebunked:
The collapse of souls and worlds collapsing are shown to work one-way multiple times.
Yhwach's method at the end is shown to work in a different way and has his reiatsu present at the scene. Guilty.
Now can someone debunk what's shown on the scans, and prove how these two events are connected?
Because they are clearly not related at all, there's a difference between things collapsing on their own and a wave of energy doing it.
There's also no canon evidence that Yhwach could "disturb the souls" while he is alive, the first event is only caused when the Soul King dies.
The collapse of souls and worlds collapsing are shown to work one-way multiple times.
Yhwach's method at the end is shown to work in a different way and has his reiatsu present at the scene. Guilty.
Now can someone debunk what's shown on the scans, and prove how these two events are connected?
Because they are clearly not related at all, there's a difference between things collapsing on their own and a wave of energy doing it.
There's also no canon evidence that Yhwach could "disturb the souls" while he is alive, the first event is only caused when the Soul King dies.
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All of these people are now being ******, can you guys just take your ******* heads out of asses and WATCH CAREFULLY THE ******* PANELS !!!!!!!!
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"Completely out of context and headcanon."
If the scans are out of context it's your fault you didn't give the context.
"The novel also said the earthquake was felt in the entire planet and it was a long one"
Cool, a High 6-C feat.
I literally debunked both feats above. High 6-C feat is not evidence of 5-B feat. It actually debunks yourself.
The other is just Yhwach saying that worlds will collapse into one which is what happens when there's no Soul King to regulate the flow of souls.
"There's also no canon evidence that Yhwach could "disturb the souls" while he is alive, the first event is only caused when the Soul King dies."
Which is exactly why the worlds are collapsing. No more Soul King. Your scans debunk yourself.
If the scans are out of context it's your fault you didn't give the context.
"The novel also said the earthquake was felt in the entire planet and it was a long one"
Cool, a High 6-C feat.
I literally debunked both feats above. High 6-C feat is not evidence of 5-B feat. It actually debunks yourself.
The other is just Yhwach saying that worlds will collapse into one which is what happens when there's no Soul King to regulate the flow of souls.
"There's also no canon evidence that Yhwach could "disturb the souls" while he is alive, the first event is only caused when the Soul King dies."
Which is exactly why the worlds are collapsing. No more Soul King. Your scans debunk yourself.
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Makes you wonder. If Yhwach could manipulate the flow of souls to destroy the world like some ppl claim, why did his corpse suddenly decide to stop said process and maintain the flow. Lol.
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A few observations:
1) This thread is turning far too long, and needs to be restarted.
2) People are quoting each other too much, instead of using the @ sign, which turns the discussion harder to read.
3) Some members are using snark and mockery. This should stop immediately.
4) Since there are two intepretations of this as either raw power via reality warping or automatic chain reaction consequence, would "At least... Possibly..." be an acceptable compromise solution?
1) This thread is turning far too long, and needs to be restarted.
2) People are quoting each other too much, instead of using the @ sign, which turns the discussion harder to read.
3) Some members are using snark and mockery. This should stop immediately.
4) Since there are two intepretations of this as either raw power via reality warping or automatic chain reaction consequence, would "At least... Possibly..." be an acceptable compromise solution?
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What I see in thread: One side posting actual facts with statement from the verse vs another side using head canon to interpret a feat. This thread is simple and shouldnt be this long.
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Agreed. The side saying that Yhwach is 5-B is using headcanons.AllanSaiyan said:
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@Ant
There's no reason to make a compromise simply to appease an incorrect side. 5-B should go, as it is not a power feat, as proven by scans posted again and again.
Simple at that.
There's no reason to make a compromise simply to appease an incorrect side. 5-B should go, as it is not a power feat, as proven by scans posted again and again.
Simple at that.
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Perhaps this should be moved over to staff only and then the staff can vote after hearing both side's arguments?
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Dangai Ichigo said:
Do you want to get banned?
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A good compromise would be calcing Yhwach's actual feat of destroying Seireitei and the surrounding area. That would give us something solid to use as a base value for his AP. If you want to add 'Possibly Planet Level' after that, then I could live with that.
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Staff only would actually cut a lot of people who are making the best arguments. It would solve nothing.Shadowbokunohero said:
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This.Damage3245 said:
Calc Yhwach's actual feats. Maybe then add a Possibly Planet level afterwards.
Speaking of which: Why is the city in Gwyn's calc 5106 meters. Nobody has answered me that.
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"If the scans are out of context it's your fault you didn't give the context."
Or maybe you're just ignoring one thing clearly shown on panel, to help your case.
"Cool, a High 6-C feat."
"I literally debunked both feats above. High 6-C feat is not evidence of 5-B feat. It actually debunks yourself."
That's only for the destruction part, you clearly let out the part where he was going to build a new world with was left of it.
"The other is just Yhwach saying that worlds will collapse into one which is what happens when there's no Soul King to regulate the flow of souls."
The Soul King was Yhwach. Making your statement invalid. He wasn't dead yet, and even after his death, the novel explains that the worlds didn't collapse because his corpse still had enough energy to hold them together.
"Which is exactly why the worlds are collapsing. No more Soul King. Your scans debunk yourself."
Why are the worlds collapsing exactly? And why is there no Soul King? Clearly is stated that Yhwach took the position of the Soul King.
You have debunked nothing.
Or maybe you're just ignoring one thing clearly shown on panel, to help your case.
"Cool, a High 6-C feat."
"I literally debunked both feats above. High 6-C feat is not evidence of 5-B feat. It actually debunks yourself."
That's only for the destruction part, you clearly let out the part where he was going to build a new world with was left of it.
"The other is just Yhwach saying that worlds will collapse into one which is what happens when there's no Soul King to regulate the flow of souls."
The Soul King was Yhwach. Making your statement invalid. He wasn't dead yet, and even after his death, the novel explains that the worlds didn't collapse because his corpse still had enough energy to hold them together.
"Which is exactly why the worlds are collapsing. No more Soul King. Your scans debunk yourself."
Why are the worlds collapsing exactly? And why is there no Soul King? Clearly is stated that Yhwach took the position of the Soul King.
You have debunked nothing.
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Sorry I just exploded there
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Oh god this is still going, Also how FKT Arc Bankai Ichigo (The one who fought Gin) only Mountain Level +, he's at least Island Level
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Matt thats your opinion, the fact is the series state what the villan was doing which is destroying and merging the worlds together vs your headcanon interpretation of the feat.
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"That's only for the destruction part, you clearly let out the part where he was going to build a new world with was left of it."
Because it is pointless to bring up. The worlds would collapse into one leaving a world with no distinction between life and afterlife in their wake. Basic Bleach cosmology.
"The Soul King was Yhwach. Making your statement invalid. He wasn't dead yet, and even after his death, the novel explains that the worlds didn't collapse because his corpse still had enough energy to hold them together"
Obviously living Yhwach could just make the conscious decision not to administer the flow of souls. As a corpse he lacks the ability to decide that.
"Which is exactly why the worlds are collapsing. No more Soul King. Your scans debunk yourself."
Correct. No more Soul King to administer the flow of souls. Yhwach wasn't doing it.
Everything's been debunked over and over.
Because it is pointless to bring up. The worlds would collapse into one leaving a world with no distinction between life and afterlife in their wake. Basic Bleach cosmology.
"The Soul King was Yhwach. Making your statement invalid. He wasn't dead yet, and even after his death, the novel explains that the worlds didn't collapse because his corpse still had enough energy to hold them together"
Obviously living Yhwach could just make the conscious decision not to administer the flow of souls. As a corpse he lacks the ability to decide that.
"Which is exactly why the worlds are collapsing. No more Soul King. Your scans debunk yourself."
Correct. No more Soul King to administer the flow of souls. Yhwach wasn't doing it.
Everything's been debunked over and over.
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The 6-C calc was rejected. Even Gin is now down to 7-A.Dangai Ichigo said:
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An opinion grounded on facts. It has been proven again and again that the worlds merging is a natural phenomena. It has nothing to do with power. This has been established since the first arc.AllanSaiyan said:
Ignoring all of that and acting like:
1. Soul Society and Hueco Mundo are planets
2. Yhwach would literally one-shot destroy three planets
Is the headcanon.
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@Ant no. The worlds collapsing is a result lf the SK not existing, not Yhwach merging them himself with his reiatsu.
Yhwach as a corpse also continued the flow of souls, acting as the soulking. Their "intepretation" would mean that Yhwach as a corpse changed his mind to instead save the world. which is ridiculously farfetched.
Yhwach already has a very casual High 6-A feat which is lowballed. Nothing wrong with straightout 5-B
Yhwach as a corpse also continued the flow of souls, acting as the soulking. Their "intepretation" would mean that Yhwach as a corpse changed his mind to instead save the world. which is ridiculously farfetched.
Yhwach already has a very casual High 6-A feat which is lowballed. Nothing wrong with straightout 5-B
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Also, having enough energy to prevent the collapse of the worlds doesn't require one to have enough energy to destroy the worlds. It just takes enough energy to offset the inbalance in the flow of souls.
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Matt you do realize that Yhwach wants to build a world for everyone to live in if he stopped the adminstration of souls his goal would be meaningless, HAVE YOU TOOK THAT INTO CONSIDERATION ?
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@Aizen
Proof that Yhwach was merging them with his Reiatsu? He was causing them to collapse by not controling the flow of souls.
"Yhwach as a corpse also continued the flow of souls, acting as the soulking. Their "intepretation" would mean that Yhwach as a corpse changed his mind, which is ridiculous."
Already has been explained. Yhwach chose not to control the flow of souls while alive. As a corpse, he was simply put in the position of the Soul King to control the flow of souls. Just like his dad before.
"Yhwach already has a very casual High 6-A feat which is lowballed. Nothing wrong with straightout t-B"
Said 6-A to High 6-A calc is based on outdated calculations. It should be recalced.
Proof that Yhwach was merging them with his Reiatsu? He was causing them to collapse by not controling the flow of souls.
"Yhwach as a corpse also continued the flow of souls, acting as the soulking. Their "intepretation" would mean that Yhwach as a corpse changed his mind, which is ridiculous."
Already has been explained. Yhwach chose not to control the flow of souls while alive. As a corpse, he was simply put in the position of the Soul King to control the flow of souls. Just like his dad before.
"Yhwach already has a very casual High 6-A feat which is lowballed. Nothing wrong with straightout t-B"
Said 6-A to High 6-A calc is based on outdated calculations. It should be recalced.
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Im going to bed guys. Thanks for the good discussion! im sure this will hit 500 long before I wake up though.
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What about the fact that Las Noches is the size of a large Island not a City ?
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Yes.Dangai Ichigo said:
Explained in the first arc. The worlds collapsing into each other isn't literally planets crashing, lol. It's a cessation of the cycle between life, death and reincarnation. No distinction between life and afterlife. Which was exactly Yhwach's goal as he explains as he was dying. He wanted to end mortality.
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Except it was literally explained that Yhwach would create something from the destruction of the 3 planets, thus your point doesn't make sense. If the 3 planets collapsed into one another they would be destroyed and Yhwach would create a new world from the destruction.Dangai Ichigo said:
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@AntTataHakai said:
People are assuming "Destruction" automatically means planet bust, whereas statements from arc 1 back up the fact that Yhwach was attempting to destroy worlds by disrupting the flow of souls to make them collapse into one another.
This has literally been stated again, and again and again.
I mean with the logic behind this every Shinigami is now capable of Planetary output because they can all disrupt the flow of souls.
Read this. This is why it's not a 5-B feat. It's literally unarguable. It's a chain-reaction.
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And if he stopped doing that, no one would be alive which would make his goal meaningless making the only option that he would have to merge the realms with his power, think a bit more carefully
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We are not taking that seriously here. It would make the tower Ulquiorra was standing on be multiple kilometres across. Even in the anime, where the Seireitei and Las Noches appear much bigger than the manga, it still looks large city sized at best.Dangai Ichigo said:
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Matt as other have said. 1. The soul society is identical to earth. https://static.comicvine.com/upload...363/5826661-soul+society+and+earth+world1.png 2.no your headcanon. It was stated what he was going to do it and his power was used when he was performing the feat because his energy was disrupting the feat.
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If we want to use the 'Likely' modifier we could put Yhwach down as: "Country Level+ (Destroyed Seireitei and surrounding area), likely Higher " and scale Ichigo and Aizen based on that.
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