Bleach revision summary

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

if 5-B Naruto is considered an Outlier, even though it has multiple low 5-b calcs, what makes Bleach Different?, Bleach has one vague 5-B statement and Country level+ feat.

First of all, stop whining about Naruto on a Bleach thread, it's very annoying. Second of all, you're not even making sense. Planet level ETSB is accepted, it just doesn't scale to anyone, rightly so. Finally, if you have a problem regarding Narutoverse make a separate thread about it.

 

[DodoNova2]

I will try to be a spectator here

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@AppleLord and LAS

Please stop devolving into mockery and insults and actually argument and post non-debunked proof. Otherwise, downgrades.

It's that simple. If 5-B Bleach is so obvious, undeniable and easy to proof, this discussion wouldn't exist.

 

[BMWFanboy]

What timeframe was used for Kaguya's ETSB? Maybe we can use that for Yhwach.

There is no timeframe for it, once the attack expanded enough it would destroy the dimension
IIRC the ETSB stop expanding and it wasn't bigger than a Country in size. How do we know it was going to explode and take out the entire planet in one attack? And not turn it to ashes slowly by moving through it? That's what TSB do, right?

I can discuss this with you on your message wall if you want.

 

[TataHakai]

People are assuming "Destruction" automatically means planet bust, whereas statements from arc 1 back up the fact that Yhwach was attempting to destroy worlds by disrupting the flow of souls to make them collapse into one another.
This has literally been stated again, and again and again.

I mean with the logic behind this every Shinigami is now capable of Planetary output because they can all disrupt the flow of souls.

 

[Damage3245]

Facts: The Soul King was created to bring stability to the flow of souls.

Without the Soul King, the instability of the flow of souls will collapse Soul Society, Heuco Mundo, etc.

Yhwach intended to collapse Soul Society, Heucu Mundo, etc.

Therefore... the logical conclusion from this is that Yhwach - with the Soul King's abilities - was simply disrupting the flow of souls which would collapse Soul Society, Heuco Mundo, etc. No planet level AP needed.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Bias for Bleach? There is none. There are only downplayers here and they are getting salty because with all the headcanon, fanfics, lies and fallacies they throw out, they lost.

Jajajajajajaja

 

[AppleLord]

@Apple Because TSB have shown to be able to detonate

Where I don't remember. There's no evidence it would take all the planet. But i'll leave it at that before someone starts thinking that I'm bias towards a series over the other. lmao

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

^ See.

This is why it's not 5-B. Actual explanations of the Verse's mechanics and cosmology in the manga. Which is either innocently or deliberatedly ignored to make Yhwach and Ichigo and Aizen 5-B (When even that that's wrong as the later two don't scale unless you use the novels which are after a time-skip).

 

[AppleLord]

@applelord down play? Hey, I'm all for Yhwach 5-B, but only if you can prove it. Don't call me a down player if you cannot prove something.

Where did I said that you where downplaying?

 

[Damage3245]

Exactly Matt. Disrupting the flow of souls naturally results in the collapse of the worlds in Bleach. It doesn't require planetary AP to achieve that.

EDIT: Otherwise we would rank all of the Quincy as 5-B since they nearly destroyed the world by killing Hollows.

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord and LAS
Please stop devolving into mockery and insults and actually argument and post non-debunked proof. Otherwise, downgrades.

It's that simple. If 5-B Bleach is so obvious, undeniable and easy to proof, this discussion wouldn't exist.

FACTS:

• Collapse of souls and worlds collapsing are shown to work one way multiple times.

• Yhwach's method at the end is shown different and has his reiatsu present at the scene. Guilty.

Now can someone proof how this two events are connected?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Bias for Bleach? There is none. There are only downplayers here and they are getting salty because with all the headcanon, fanfics, lies and fallacies they throw out, they lost.
Jajajajajajaja

Headcanon: Yhwach would one-shot three planets through his powah

Canon: Flow of souls being disrupted causes Earth, Soul Society and Hueco Mundo, the later two which we have no known size for, to collapse into each other. It's a natural phenomena and part of why the Shinigami exist in the first place.

Again, the more you devolve into ridiculing, mockery, and strawmans, the less people agree with you. Bleach is on the verge of a downgrade right now.

 

[ShieldsPlus]

Logically, if the Soul Society is not located anywhere on the Earth's map, it would be impossible for Soul Society to be at the same dimension, or planet as Earth is.

Thus, the only way that Soul Society could exist here would be in a different planet.

Because for all of the stuff that happened in Bleach and all the characters, you would think that if this stuff was happening on Earth, people would have noticed the stuff happening there by now.

 

[Damage3245]

FACTS:

• Collapse of souls and worlds collapsing are shown to work one way multiple times.

• Yhwach's method at the end is shown different and has his reiatsu present at the scene. Guilty.

Now can someone proof how this two events are connected?

We only see Yhwach's Reiatsu affecting Seireitei and the surrounding area during Yhwach's method. We don't know how long it would take to affect the other spiritual worlds.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

FACTS:

• Collapse of souls and worlds collapsing are shown to work one way multiple times.

• Yhwach's method at the end is shown different and has his reiatsu present at the scene. Guilty.

Now can someone proof how this two events are connected?

It's not different. You are just saying it is because of vague wording. The entire cosmology points to it being because there was no more Soul King. That's it.

The Burden of Proof is yours. You have to proof it's different, not I proving it's not. Without evidence, through Occam's Razor, we assume it is through the same method already repeatedly established in the actual series.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

@Matthew Schroeder

1. Lol. They are but I'm very intrigued by your headcanon. Are you denying The World of the Living is a planet?

2. I'm well aware of what the Soul King does, that doesn't relate to Yhwach or Ichigo.

3. Are you serious? It has nothing to do with soul manipulation. Even if you want to falsely claim Yhwach was doing it via souls manipulation, Ichigo would have done the same. Does he have soul manipulate now?

But no, they're reiatsu is so vast that they stop planets from crumbling into nothingness, that's what is literally stated in the novel.

@Damage3245 You're not even making sense.

 

[AppleLord]

FACTS:

• Collapse of souls and worlds collapsing are shown to work one way multiple times.

• Yhwach's method at the end is shown different and has his reiatsu present at the scene. Guilty.

Now can someone proof how this two events are connected?

It's not different. You are just saying it is because of vague wording. The entire cosmology points to it being because there was no more Soul King. That's it.
The Burden of Proof is yours. You have to proof it's different, not I proving it's not. Without evidence, through Occam's Razor, we assume it is through the same method already repeatedly established in the actual series.

The evidence is very clear actually.

Soul King method:

• Earthquakes

Yhwach method:

• Reiatsu which is AP

Next?

 

[AppleLord]

FACTS:

• Collapse of souls and worlds collapsing are shown to work one way multiple times.

• Yhwach's method at the end is shown different and has his reiatsu present at the scene. Guilty.

Now can someone proof how this two events are connected?

We only see Yhwach's Reiatsu affecting Seireitei and the surrounding area during Yhwach's method. We don't know how long it would take to affect the other spiritual worlds.

And when the flow of souls collapses we don't see Yhwach's reiatsu.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Matthew Schroeder
1. Lol. They are but I'm very intrigued by your headcanon. Are you denying The World of the Living is a planet?

2. I'm well aware of what the Soul King does, that doesn't relate to Yhwach or Ichigo.

3. Are you serious? It has nothing to do with soul manipulation. Even if you want to falsely claim Yhwach was doing it via souls manipulation, Ichigo would have done the same. Does he have soul manipulate now?

But no, they're reiatsu is so vast that they stop planets from crumbling into nothingness, that's what is literally stated in the novel.

@Damage3245 You're not even making sense.

1. Never have I said that. I said that neither Soul Society or Hueco Mundo are. Everything points to the size of a continent.

2. The literal reason why Yhwach was "collapsing the worlds" was because he obtained the Soul King's power and the flow of souls was no longer being controled.

3. Yes, it is soul manipulation. Regulating and administrating the flow of souls throughout the three worlds.

"they're reiatsu is so vast that they stop planets from crumbling into nothingness"

I know for a fact it isn't, because this entire logic revolves around two assumptions which are demonstrably false, that the three worlds are all planets (Only one is), and that it is a power feat.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Matt hasnt debunked a single thing and is trying to talk down to us as if he knows what he is talking about. Hilarious.

10/10 for fanfic posts though.

LOL are you still thinking the collapse from the SK-s death is what Yhwach was doing? Ma boi. You not been reedin have you

 

[Damage3245]

And when the flow of souls collapses we don't see Yhwach's reiatsu.

I wouldn't expect to since Yhwach wasn't the Soul King then...

The point is, disrupting the flow of souls causes the worlds to collapse. When we see Yhwach collapsing the worlds, it logically follows that he is using the Soul King's power to disrupt the flow of souls and cause the worlds to collapse. It doesn't mean he has planetary level AP and durability; it just proves he has control over the flow of souls as the Soul King.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Applelord

Earthquakes can't blow up planets. Shaking a world is High 6-C, and there's no proof it was throughout the entire planet. Even if it destroyed the surface it'd be High 6-A only.

Reiatsu is the energy system of Bleach. It can be used to a variety of things, not just AP, but also speed, durability, and numerous techniques ranging from simply flight to reality warping.

Saying "Reiatsu gg" is no argument, much less saying "Ki GG" would prove that all Dragon Ball characters of a certain power level would have 100% equal stats in everything.

 

[TataHakai]

Oh yeah the 3 worlds destruction definitely has nothing to do with the Soul king....


Not as if Yhwach literally explained what would happen if the Soul king was dead, essentially confirming that was his plan all along

 

[ShieldsPlus]

"Without evidence, through Occam's Razor"

Not every fiction has to follow this rule, especially if the feat that brings them to that level was directly stated.

And Yhwach did say that the three dimensions here would be merged together into a single one, correct? If these dimensions are actual planets (most likely, since these dimensions are not even shown on the map of Earth, or even outside of Earth's orbit), it actually takes a certain amount of energy to actually merge them and keep them together.

Without them being separated apart that is.

 

[Damage3245]

Matt hasnt debunked a single thing and is trying to talk down to us as if he knows what he is talking about. Hilarious.
10/10 for fanfic posts though.

LOL are you still thinking the collapse from the SK-s death is what Yhwach was doing? Ma boi. You not been reedin have you

Once again, accusing other people of not reading the series and talking down to them is not doing you any favors here.

Stop accusing other people of making up fanfic for disagreeing with you.

 

[Golden_Void]

"Generally try to avoid derailing content revision discussion threads from the original topic, We cannot deal with too many different subjects at once, so it is usually better to start a new thread instead."

Oh Naruto posts.......

 

[AppleLord]

FACTS:

The collapse of souls and worlds collapsing are shown to work one-way multiple times.

Yhwach's method at the end is shown to work in a different way and has his reiatsu present at the scene. Guilty.

Now can someone debunk what's shown on the scans, and prove how these two events are connected? Because they are clearly not related at all, even a child could see the difference between things collapsing on their own and a wave of energy doing it.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

Except there's zero evidence Yhwach is "disrupting the balance". We outright see him use his reiatsu to destroy the worlds and he states this himself. If he was "disrupting the balance" there would have been earthquakes and the world would have started to break up that way.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Without evidence, through Occam's Razor"
Not every fiction has to follow this rule, especially if the feat that brings them to that level was directly stated.

And Yhwach did say that the three dimensions here would be merged together into a single one, correct? If these dimensions are actual planets (most likely, since these dimensions are not even shown on the map of Earth, or even outside of Earth's orbit), it actually takes a certain amount of energy to actually merge them and keep them together.

Without them being separated apart that is.

"Not every fiction follows Occam's Razor"

All of fictio follows it here. This is one of the basis of this wiki. Occam's Razor is one of the core principles of real life debating and rhetoric.

And it isn't a level that was directly stated. Only through a specific misinterpretation one reaches that.

Without it, we have literally everything about the Bleach Verse's cosmology and mechanics showing that it is not an AP feat, which everyone is failing to address, just saying it is through repeated ebunked statements.

"If these dimensions are actual planets (most likely, since these dimensions are not even shown on the map of Earth, or even outside of Earth's orbit)"

By this logic literally every dimension outside our reality is planet-sized. It proves nothing.

"it actually takes a certain amount of energy to actually merge them and keep them together"

It takes energy to keep them separate by controling the flow of souls. That's what the Soul King does.

 

[AppleLord]

@Applelord
Earthquakes can't blow up planets. Shaking a world is High 6-C, and there's no proof it was throughout the entire planet. Even if it destroyed the surface it'd be High 6-A only.

Reiatsu is the energy system of Bleach. It can be used to a variety of things, not just AP, but also speed, durability, and numerous techniques ranging from simply flight to reality warping.

Saying "Reiatsu gg" is no argument, much less saying "Ki GG" would prove that all Dragon Ball characters of a certain power level would have 100% equal stats in everything.

That doesn't relate at all to what's shown. In the contrary, it backups the two different events shown.

 

[Damage3245]

Now can someone debunk what's shown on the scans, and prove how these two events are connected? Because they are clearly not related at all, even a child could see the difference between things collapsing on their own and a wave of energy doing it.

I can see Yhwach's Reiatsu affecting Seireitei and the surrounding area. Can you prove he has affecting the living world and Heuco Mundo simultaneously?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Piercer

No evidence except everything that was posted. Saying "No evidence" without addressing the evidence is not an argument.

@Apple.

First sca. Small Earthquakes are somehow evidence that three planets are going to be literally destroyed completely now?

Second sca. Yhwach is screaming like crazy like a cliched villain. Other than that, worlds merging into one and losing their form is exactly what happens when there's no Soul King.

You literally debunked yourself.

 

[TataHakai]

"it actually takes a certain amount of energy to actually merge them and keep them together"

It takes energy to keep them separate by controling the flow of souls. That's what the Soul King does.

Thank you, someone who actually understands what they read, the soul king doesn't physically hold the realms together, he holds them together by controlling the flow of souls

Unless Someone can find out the energy output of controlling flow of souls the 5-B bleach ratings are baseless ratings.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That doesn't relate at all to what's shown. In the contrary, it backups the two different events shown.

You're the one saying small earthquakes prove that planets are going to explode.

 

[AppleLord]

Now can someone debunk what's shown on the scans, and prove how these two events are connected? Because they are clearly not related at all, even a child could see the difference between things collapsing on their own and a wave of energy doing it.

I can see Yhwach's Reiatsu affecting Seireitei and the surrounding area. Can you prove he has affecting the living world and Heuco Mundo simultaneously?

Is clearly stated on panel what he is doing. So what's your point?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@POH I wasn't complaining if I wanted to make CRT then I would, I was pointed a factual statement, what goes for one verse should apply to another, their shouldn't be special treatment for a specific verse, otherwise that would be having double standards which I don't endorse

 

[ShieldsPlus]

"By this logic literally every dimension outside our reality is planet-sized. It proves nothing."

Except that this particular dimension had a sky and a landshape similar to Earth's.

In that case, there is more evidence for said dimension to similar to Earth than it is not, unless we get a specific view of the entirety of that dimension.

 

[AppleLord]

That doesn't relate at all to what's shown. In the contrary, it backups the two different events shown.

You're the one saying small earthquakes prove that planets are going to explode.

Quote where I said that the planet was going to explode by an earthquake. Don't take my words out of context while you do.

 

[Damage3245]

Is clearly stated on panel what he is doing. So what's your point?

What is happening on panel is significantly less than destroying Soul Society; much less all three worlds. At least in the earthquakes panel we see it affecting all three worlds; for Yhwach we only see him affecting a portion of one.