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Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade

point of speed is that there really isnt any evidence he held back when killed yamamoto, where as there is evidence he held back with fb bankai ichigo
 
Cyberblader90 said:
point of speed is that there really isnt any evidence he held back when killed yamamoto, where as there is evidence he held back with fb bankai ichigo
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I'm sure it is difficult to intend to keep it back. Is there anything that indicates that it is holding itself back in speed?
 
Reio35 said:
Lmao ichigo was just holding back suppressing himself. He didn't even scale to base aizen or gin. To say he scales to 1st fusion aizen doesn't make any sense
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Didn't say he scales to Aizen, I said he could sense his reiatsu, which makes him stronger than Urahara and Isshin. He just can't use that power because he doubts himself.


Cyberblader90 said:
About fb bankai ichigo reacting to yhwach...

He does so twice, but like ywhach has he was holding back at the end of the fight. Not sure if it's a fair comparison for Speed
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Ywach went for the kill, then was fully intent on dragging Ichigo to Wanderreich.

Haschwalth used a surprise attack, and might as well just be fast for his tier.
 
To add into the Yamamoto bit, wasn’t Yama already drastically tired when the real Yhwach came to kill him?

IIRC he was already exhausted and drained from fighting the clone Yhwach (forgot that’s sternritters name), so why would Yhwach go all out against a drained Yama that’s essentially just a finishing blow?
 
Didn't Yhwach intentionally held Ichigo in place so that he wouldn't escape or dodge? So the holding back could be strength based and not speed based.
 
From what I remember of their fight, Ichigo didn't react to or manage to fight back against Yhwach effectively at all.

He rushed in, got grabbed, tried to reach for Yhwach's eye but was deflected and then effortlessly stabbed. He then only got off a point-blank Getsuga Tensho while Yhwach was surprised at his Blut Vene, and then Yhwach easily overwhelmed him after that until it was time for him to retreat.

So I wouldn't agree with him scaling to Yhwach's speed at that point anyway.
 
Damage3245 said:
From what I remember of their fight, Ichigo didn't react to or manage to fight back against Yhwach effectively at all.

He rushed in, got grabbed, tried to reach for Yhwach's eye but was deflected and then effortlessly stabbed. He then only got off a point-blank Getsuga Tensho while Yhwach was surprised at his Blut Vene, and then Yhwach easily overwhelmed him after that until it was time for him to retreat.

So I wouldn't agree with him scaling to Yhwach's speed at that point anyway.
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I remember he blocked one or two yhwach's attacks
 
He blocked a couple of hits and landed his own GT, doing damage with it, Ywach even says he needs his full power to defeat and take back Ichigo.

Even then that Ichigo has powerscalling from everyone and everything aside from Aizen, Ichibei, Ywach, Zaraki and his own EoS Version.
 
Hasch said:
He blocked a couple of hits and landed his own GT, doing damage with it, Ywach even says he needs his full power to defeat and take back Ichigo.

Even then that Ichigo has powerscalling from everyone and everything aside from Aizen, Ichibei, Ywach, Zaraki and his own EoS Version.
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He does wound Tenjiro too.
 
Dangai_Ichigo said:
He does wound Tenjiro too.
Click to expand...

Yeah, also Askin has about the same speed as Oetsu, Yoruichi and Urahara have no problem with his speed and actually seem a bit faster, this Ichigo should be stronger than they are.

Then in the LN Ginjo is as fast as Tokinada who is as fast as Yoruichi, so it all makes sense.

There's also the fact these ratings can be applied to all top tiers even from the beginning of the manga since elite captains don't become stronger between arcs.
 
@Damage3245, uhh man you forgot to include the hollowfication multiplier with Ichigo lol. That’s still an accepted multiplier, you can’t just skip out on it with a higher with merged hollow form man.
 
SilentBob34 said:
@Damage3245, uhh man you forgot to include the hollowfication multiplier with Ichigo lol. That’s still an accepted multiplier, you can’t just skip out on it with a higher with merged hollow form man.
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I don't think we've ever used the multiplier for his Merged Hollow Form. I don't recall anything stating that the same multiplier applies.
 
Why wouldn’t we? It’s literally a more perfect version of hollowfication than the mask was and it’s a far more powerful boost in his stats than the mask. So unless you can prove that it’s weaker than the mask then there’s literally no reason to not use the multiplier. Cmon man.
 
SilentBob34 said:
Why wouldn’t we? It’s literally a more perfect version of hollowfication than the mask was and it’s a far more powerful boost in his stats than the mask. So unless you can prove that it’s weaker than the mask then there’s literally no reason to not use the multiplier. Cmon man.
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That's not quite right IMO.

Ichigo's True Shikai state already uses his Quincy and Hollow powers at once. He then wakes up his inner Hollow by injecting large amount of Quincy Reiatsu, and the end result is that he becomes more powerful by having the balance tip towards his Hollow side.

And while he does undoubtedly get stronger and faster, that doesn't necessarily mean it's the same kind of multiplier than when he was putting on the mask.
 
I think details like these aren't that important, it would be better to make a comprehensive powerscalling list first.

Then add speed calcs based on that.
 
@Damage3245, but.. it’s still hollowfication. It’s was accepted that bankai, hollowfication, and I believe vollstandig we’re accepted as at least 5x to the stats it applies too.
 
SilentBob34 said:
@Damage3245, but.. it’s still hollowfication. It’s was accepted that bankai, hollowfication, and I believe vollstandig we’re accepted as at least 5x to the stats it applies too.
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Vollstandig was definitely not accepted as a multiplier.

Not all Bankai are a multiplier (only a couple, actually).

And yes, Ichigo's Hollowfication Pre-Timeskip is treated as a 5x multiplier because he has the feats to support it. But his 1-Horned mode after attaining his True Shikai is new.

EDIT: If it will help though @SilentBob34, I can update the sandbox to show it would look like with the 5x multiplier for his Merged Hollow form.
 

Think How Dull Your Life Would Be Without Me.​

Ichigo's HOS form is a "sword" release. The Hollow sword requires to be release to be use, and changes form (color) allowing Ichigo access to his true hollow powers. He can't do it on his own, and needs Yhwach's Quincy reiatsu to do it. The form comes from his sword like a Resurrection.

Vollstandig needs his own thread to be accepted as a multiplier. There's evidence in the manga that Vollstandig surpasses the x5-x10 bankai multiplier.
 
HoS is just Ichigo using more of his Hollow power ........ the exact same thing as him using his masks. We also never gave it a multiplier before because backscaling HoS Ichigo to his base was apparently not okay so we ended up with a jump from TS to HoS.

As for Vollstandig, did we seriously never have a thread that involved it’s multiplier? Could’ve sworn we had one. Quincies blatantly say that the Gotei messed up taking back their Bankai since the Ritters now get back their Vollstandig. Rather obvious implication that Vollstandig > Bankai
 
@AnonymousBlank; I don't see how that's the implication at all. All it means is that they cannot activate their Vollstandig while they're holding onto a Bankai. Bear in mind that most of those stolen Bankais anyway don't grant stat multipliers.

It doesn't mean each them get stat multipliers, or that those increases in power are equivalent to each other.

Anyway - I've updated the sandbox for Ichigo.
 
Because the Quincy with Bankai were going about their business slapping the Captains, lost their stolen Bankai back to the respective Captains and proceed to say that the Bankai Shinigami are screwed because they gave the Quincy back their Vollstandig. The fact that they point out that Vollstandig is what puts them above even the Bankai Shinigami is a fairly clear cut situation, especially when three of the four Bankai are stat amps/let the Shinigami hit harder/block stronger attacks (the fourth is a big explosion). Vollstandig is also compared to and said to be better than Letz Stil, something that was shown to be far greater than a Bankai back in Soul Society when Uryu went from losing to Mayuri despite the advantage in weapons to one shotting KAJ with a warning shot.
 
I believe it was decided that Mask’s beam of light wasn’t made of real light so Renji’s calc is unusable now. Though I really hope we find some good speed feats because after this is done, FKT Ichigo and Ulquiorra are gonna be faster than almost everyone in the verse lmao

Also @Damage3245 thanks for updating the sandbox man👍🏻 I appreciate it!
 
There’s that feat, I’m pretty sure Damage said he was gonna go through the novel feats as well when the last volume comes out, there’s Ichigo blitzing the Quincy girls and I’m pretty sure some others.
 
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