Bleach: Hogyoku a 4D smurf hax?

[Johner2133451]

Currently we have this accepted in Aizen's profile

• Universal, possibly Universal+ to Interdimensional with the Hogyoku (The Hogyoku can affect the entire world through its ability to fulfill the desires of people)

Shouldn't this make all abilities listed under reality warping/mind reading having (possibly) smurf hax like his fate manip and reactive evolution/adaptation?

If yes, this should grant Yhwach's almighty having (possibly) 4D powernull smurf since he is able to nullify any powers he sees in the future which includes hogyoku and Aizen's illusions (which already have resists to powernull)

• Power Nullification (Despite being under seals that weaken the powers of Zanpkautō to the point of losing access to it's powers, the powers of Aizen's Zanpakuto, Kyoka Suigetsu are unaffected)

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

It's just range since higher dimensional hax potency doesn't really exist anymore for this type of abilitties.

 

[MrTayman616]

Currently we have this accepted in Aizen's profile

• Universal, possibly Universal+ to Interdimensional with the Hogyoku (The Hogyoku can affect the entire world through its ability to fulfill the desires of people)

Shouldn't this make all abilities listed under reality warping/mind reading having (possibly) smurf hax like his fate manip and reactive evolution/adaptation?

If yes, this should grant Yhwach's almighty having (possibly) 4D powernull smurf since he is able to nullify any powers he sees in the future which includes hogyoku and Aizen's illusions (which already have resists to powernull)

• Power Nullification (Despite being under seals that weaken the powers of Zanpkautō to the point of losing access to it's powers, the powers of Aizen's Zanpakuto, Kyoka Suigetsu are unaffected)

The range doesn't affect the tier here.

"I have a bullet that travels the multiverse but it is still just a bullet" type of thing

 

[Johner2133451]

It's just range since higher dimensional hax potency doesn't really exist anymore.

Can you show me that HDE smurf doesn't exist anymore?

If that's the case, shouldn't Yhwach at least get layered powernull for capable of nullifying Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu?

 

[Specterxxxx]

If that's the case, shouldn't Yhwach at least get layered powernull for capable of nullifying Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu?

When did this happen?

 

[Johner2133451]

The range doesn't affect the tier here.

"I have a bullet that travels the multiverse but it is still just a bullet" type of thing

It's a hax thing

Hax

Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant. The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• The main advantage of an ability being considered smurf in power / potency is that it is assumed to be able to overpower all resistances that don't have feats or statements of being able to perform on an equal or superior level. That in practice means that, for example, a 3D character that has abilities with Low 1-C smurf potency would be able to overcome all the regular Tier 2 or lower resistances as if they weren't there.

 

[Johner2133451]

When did this happen?

After Yhwach's supposedly death by Ichigo and statements from himself

 

[Specterxxxx]

"I have a bullet that travels the multiverse but it is still just a bullet" type of thing

If the bullet affected the multiverse then that wouldn't be just range tho so your analogy isn't really similar here.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Can you show me that HDE smurf doesn't exist anymore?

If that's the case, shouldn't Yhwach at least get layered powernull for capable of nullifying Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu?

Smurf hax: Either defining or killing it

As some may be aware, currently we deem hax that can affect qualitatively superior characters/structures as having basically uncountably infinite "layers" or so in relation to qualitatively inferior characters, with that being the characteristic trait of smurf hax, even there being a whole side...

vsbattles.com

 

[MrTayman616]

If the bullet affected the multiverse then that wouldn't be just range tho so your analogy isn't really similar here.

I meant like hits someone within that range.

 

[Specterxxxx]

After Yhwach's supposedly death by Ichigo and statements from himself

He made a speculation he wasn't sure whether aizen intentionally deactivated it or whether he couldn't keep using because of lack of power as shown here

 

[Johner2133451]

He made a speculation he wasn't sure whether aizen intentionally deactivated it or whether he couldn't keep using because of lack of power as shown here

But shouldn't Yhwach's statement that he can nulify any power he sees in the future still qualify that he can nulify Aizen's illusions? Aizen had to effect Yhwach before he got almighty

 

[Rikimarox2]

Smurf hax: Either defining or killing it

As some may be aware, currently we deem hax that can affect qualitatively superior characters/structures as having basically uncountably infinite "layers" or so in relation to qualitatively inferior characters, with that being the characteristic trait of smurf hax, even there being a whole side...

vsbattles.com

Been forever since I read it, so I don't recall majority of this, but does this apply to all general showcases of 4-D and higher stuff? Ie if a character can affect an entire timeline with any of their hax (and hence be 4-D), would we assume that is just range, and that normal 3-D resistances should suffice?

If so, that means "Higher-D" potency simply does not exist, and it's all a matter of range, right? Though I don't assume this applies to 1-A stuff and above, right?

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Been forever since I read it, so I don't recall majority of this, but does this apply to all general showcases of 4-D and higher stuff? Ie if a character can affect an entire timeline with any of their hax (and hence be 4-D), would we assume that is just range, and that normal 3-D resistances should suffice?

If so, that means "Higher-D" potency simply does not exist, and it's all a matter of range, right? Though I don't assume this applies to 1-A stuff and above, right?

higher-D potency exists if theres evidence of it being able to be concentrated onto a single point otherwise it's just range but here there's no case for it

 

[Rikimarox2]

higher-D potency exists if theres evidence of it being able to be concentrated onto a single point otherwise it's just range

"Onto a single point" as in, say, the dude who did hax the timeline, being able to use it on a single person, or...? How would one typically prove this if it is not the former?

 

[Johner2133451]

higher-D potency exists if theres evidence of it being able to be concentrated onto a single point otherwise it's just range but here there's no case for it

Is that the default assumption? Because I notice many profiles such as Castlevania, Ninjago and Honkai have their hax to be specified as smurfs for effecting higher dimensional structures but hasn't shown capable to concentrate it (unless I miss something about those verses)

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

"Onto a single point" as in, say, the dude who did hax the timeline, being able to use it on a single person, or...? How would one typically prove this if it is not the former?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/smurf-hax-either-defining-or-killing-it.154255/post-5825453 just read the thread

 

[Rikimarox2]

Ye I remember it now, so UES or stuff like lowering the range = increasing the potency and stuff like that (Lightning is the only Way and Will Pressure comes to mind, in terms of range = potency stuff)

In that case, yeah this is just range, not really "smurf"/4-D potency.

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

For now, this is just range.

 

[Johner2133451]

For now, this is just range.

But do you agree with Yhwach at least have layered powernull?

 

[ShiftCtrlAltDeleteTabFn]

But do you agree with Yhwach at least have layered powernull?

Well, he didn't negate Aizen's illusions (whether or not that's because Aizen put him under Kyoka Suigetsu before he regained the Almighty remains to be seen), and he seemingly didn't negate Aizen's Hogyoku abilities (or at least, the whole scene is pretty vague about that), so I don't know about that either right now.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Ye I remember it now, so UES or stuff like lowering the range = increasing the potency and stuff like that (Lightning is the only Way and Will Pressure comes to mind, in terms of range = potency stuff)

In that case, yeah this is just range, not really "smurf"/4-D potency.

and also metaphysical stuff such as concept stuff or reality-itself affecting hax cant be smurf hax unless it's 1-A.

 

[Voidnether]

and also metaphysical stuff such as concept stuff or reality-itself affecting hax cant be smurf hax unless it's 1-A.

The main advantage of an ability being considered "smurf" in power / potency is that it is assumed to be capable of overpowering all resistances that have not shown to be even close to the same level of power. This in practice means that a three dimensional character with a Low Complex Multiveral ability should be capable of overpowering the baseline resistance of a three dimensional character with only Universal+ levels of resistance.

I don't know where you got that part from where it must be 1-A, this is literally the latest revision btw

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I don't know where you got that part from where it must be 1-A, this is literally the latest revision btw

Agnaa himself told me that.