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Bleach Extra Speed Calculations

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Yoruichi’s brother should not scale base on rank promotion. Been Yoruichi’s blood relative and the next in line to be the head of the clan doesn't mean he is compared in speed to anyone in that clan. This could be a future plot point flaw of the character, maybe he lacks speed and wants to get better to be a better leader or something. He got blitz by both Yoruichi and Askin once he took him seriously. Askin stood there to tank his attack and become immune. He should be unknown.
 
That is, we are using the same method as before but using a lower speed, hahahahh, what a pathetic thing.

Incidentally, Liltotto's calculation dodging Auswahlen is wrong and we don't use it anymore, I don't know why they used it again, it was decided that it would go up to Auswahlen's speed
 
I agree that Yushiro probably shouldn't be scaling AppleLord. He doesn't really compare to Yoruichi herself meaningfully.
 
Incidentally, Liltotto's calculation dodging Auswahlen is wrong and we don't use it anymore, I don't know why they used it again, it was decided that it would go up to Auswahlen's speed

I hadn't heard of that. I admit, I do have conflicted feelings with the Liltotto calculation but can you find out the reason why it was decided to be removed?

@Zoro21043; I don't think it was decided to fully remove the Renji calc, but even if we are keeping it there are some characters/keys that it should not be scaling to.
 
Are the Vizards suppose to scale to Gerard’s speed? He was fast enough to match Kenpachi and the Vizords avoided his attacks. They only got defeated after Gerard destroyed the structure where they were located. The Vizards were caught off-guard.
 
Incidentally, Liltotto's calculation dodging Auswahlen is wrong and we don't use it anymore, I don't know why they used it again, it was decided that it would go up to Auswahlen's speed
I wasn't aware. What's the current accepted jazz. You got a link for where that was decided just for confirmation's sake.
 
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Also, in Yushiro's justification he scales for being able to keep up with Yoruichi.

Renji's calc hasn't been removed yet, I just made the sandbox without it a while back and I'll throw in the FTL calc and its scaling once we have the CRT for deciding to use it or not.

For the future (regarding speed CRT's for Bleach), we still have to discuss using 7.5x as the multiplier instead of 5x because 7.5x is a middle ground, and we have to discuss the Toshiro dodging Gin's Shikai which is a Mach 1000+ or sumn feat considering Gin's Shikai would be at most 10x slower. But these two points both affect pre-ts scaling so I'm fine waiting until we iron out this distance related calcs and the Renji calc before discussing them.
 
Also, in Yushiro's justification he scales for being able to keep up with Yoruichi.

I know that's his current justification but I haven't seen much evidence for that in the manga.
 
I don't much remember Yushiro's participation in the fight, but he tags Askin right?
Yes, but unless I'm misremembering I think Askin was pretty much letting himself be beaten up in order to soak up a lethal quantity of their Reiatsu. Might be wrong.
 
For the future (regarding speed CRT's for Bleach), we still have to discuss using 7.5x as the multiplier instead of 5x because 7.5x is a middle ground, and we have to discuss the Toshiro dodging Gin's Shikai which is a Mach 1000+ or sumn feat considering Gin's Shikai would be at most 10x slower. But these two points both affect pre-ts scaling so I'm fine waiting until we iron out this distance related calcs and the Renji calc before discussing them.
Actually I take this back, these two points of discussion above will be vitally important in determining if Renji's calc is "too big" for the current values. So after we finish up this distance calc thread I'm going to drop a CRT for Toshiro dodging Gin's Shikai and revising the Bankai multipliers.

Yes, but unless I'm misremembering I think Askin was pretty much letting himself be beaten up in order to soak up a lethal quantity of their Reiatsu. Might be wrong.
I don't remember if Askin let him hit him or not, I'd have to reread the fight. Other than Liltotto's calc being different and Yushiro potentially not scaling, are there other issues?
 
Askin was getting ready to fight, offhandedly insulted Yoruichi and called Yuushirou a girl. That made Yuushiro ape out and beat his face in, he gets back up, tanks Yuushirou’s next attack cuz he is now immune and thats all we get for the lil bro.

He was able to respond when Yuushirou jumped at him but the panel right after is of him being shocked when his nose caved in.
 
Askin taunted Yuushiro into attacking him to become immune to the reiatsu and continues to blitz and one-shot him with a punch.
 
Let's not touch the Renji calc and those scaling to it for the time being.

The main people that would be affected outside of that are Vollstandig Liltotto, Pre-Auswahlen Askin and Oetsu Nimaiya. Does that sound right @Arc7Kuroi?
 
Let's not touch the Renji calc and those scaling to it for the time being.

The main people that would be affected outside of that are Vollstandig Liltotto, Pre-Auswahlen Askin and Oetsu Nimaiya. Does that sound right @Arc7Kuroi?
The Femritters should scale off of Liltotto for being shown comparable in combat, the pre-Auswahlen Eite Sternritter should scales above Liltotto due to her believing them to be unrivaled which at bare minimum implies she believes the Elite > herself. So yeah Oetsu would climb for blitzing the Elite.

While this did happen off screen, there was that fight where it was the Femritters in Vollstandig plus Bazz and gang that fought a group of Shinigami, which most already upscale via Gerard, but the others should get a possibly as there’s a good chance they had to combat those Sub-Rel Femritters.
 
The Femritters should scale off of Liltotto for being shown comparable in combat

I'm pretty doubtful towards that. It's not like they fought each other. The only one arguably is Meninas who punched Liltotto in the face when she was controlled except that Liltotto was in base form there. None of the other girls have scaling to Liltotto's Vollstandig form (especially since one of them needed saving from her to avoid the Auswahlen).

And I really don't want to scale the other characters for an off-screen fight where we don't know who fought who for sure.
 
It was not accepted because there was no way to find the distance between Auswahlen and Liltotto, in addition to being considered that it crossed the entire distance before the beam hit the ground, being that everything happens in the same scene. So it was agreed that Liltotto would climb to Auswahlen's speed.
 
@USklaverei; but you don't need to be as fast as something to dodge it. That creates a bit of an issue.
 
It was not accepted because there was no way to find the distance between Auswahlen and Liltotto, in addition to being considered that it crossed the entire distance before the beam hit the ground, being that everything happens in the same scene. So it was agreed that Liltotto would climb to Auswahlen's speed.
I mean if it's accepted as such I'll treat it as such in the sandbox until a CRT is made otherwise.

I'm pretty doubtful towards that. It's not like they fought each other. The only one arguably is Meninas who punched Liltotto in the face when she was controlled except that Liltotto was in base form there. None of the other girls have scaling to Liltotto's Vollstandig form (especially since one of them needed saving from her to avoid the Auswahlen).
Ehhh they're all equal in base and there's nothing to say their Holy Forms provide separate amps. Especially since Vollstandig has only ever been a stat amp (it's derived from Letz Stil). Of course they aren't gonna fight each other for the majority they're on the same team. Giselle needing saving was more so Liltotto coming to the realization that Yhwach is discarding them before Giselle, I wouldn't say that's an anti-feat for Giselle. Albeit we could do something like "likely/possibly [Liltotto's Vollstandig Rating] (Vollstandig should provide a similar amp and they're on par with base Liltotto)".

And I really don't want to scale the other characters for an off-screen fight where we don't know who fought who for sure.
Fair enough, that's why I suggested possibly. Considering they were all still standing relatively fine implying the two groups are somewhat relative.
 
Ehhh they're all equal in base and there's nothing to say their Holy Forms provide separate amps

There's nothing to say they provide the same amp across all Sternritter either, and we don't treat it as such among any other Sternritter. It would be a bit arbitrary to say all of the Sternritters in the girl squad have to be equal to each other.

Only Liltotto (and the Pre-Auswahlen Royal Guard) should be affected by this, if we're even scaling Liltotto to it at all.

I mean if it's accepted as such I'll treat it as such in the sandbox until a CRT is made otherwise.

I don't recall anything about this being accepted - and I have some objections to it in this thread.
 
There's nothing to say they provide the same amp across all Sternritter either, and we don't treat it as such among any other Sternritter. It would be a bit arbitrary to say all of the Sternritters in the girl squad have to be equal to each other.

Only Liltotto (and the Pre-Auswahlen Royal Guard) should be affected by this, if we're even scaling Liltotto to it at all.
I don't think it's all that arbitrary when they're portrayed as equals to each other in the very limited times they fight on screen and Yhwach can vary the output of Blut so it's likely any Quincy amp-based abilities are the same across the board, but it's not that big of a deal to me so I'm fine with just Liltotto and the Royal Guard upscaling. And yes we are scaling Liltotto to the Auswahlen, she dodged it.

I don't recall anything about this being accepted - and I have some objections to it in this thread.
From what I gather there's no objective way to find the Auswahlen to Liltotto distance, and I'm sure you could fix the numbers so that it makes Liltotto faster or slower than it. So from what I gather it was decided to just scale Liltotto to Auswahlen since she'd have to be in the same realm of speed anyhow to dodge it in that scenario. Albeit I wasn't present when that was decided so I don't know where it was decided such.
 
And yes we are scaling Liltotto to the Auswahlen, she dodged it.

From what I gather there's no objective way to find the Auswahlen to Liltotto distance, and I'm sure you could fix the numbers so that it makes Liltotto faster or slower than it. So from what I gather it was decided to just scale Liltotto to Auswahlen since she'd have to be in the same realm of speed anyhow to dodge it in that scenario. Albeit I wasn't present when that was decided so I don't know where it was decided such.

The issue is, if we don't know how far away the Auswahlen was when she dodged it we don't have a solid way of scaling her speed.

You don't have to be equal, or even in the "same realm of speed" as something to dodge something.

I will see if there is any alternative method available and post back here tomorrow. If not, maybe we can downscale her to some extent.
 
The issue is, if we don't know how far away the Auswahlen was when she dodged it we don't have a solid way of scaling her speed.
I disagree, Yhwach sent the Auswahlen down at the same time originating from himself, one hit Accutron, then Liltotto dodged. Which must mean the beam for Liltotto had to be close if Robert was already hit. So it's like we have two triangles with two differing hypotenuses: Yhwach to Robert is one, Yhwach to Liltotto is the other. Liltotto was just far enough away where she could be alerted to dodge in the nick of time. She didn't aim dodge it from the Royal Palace.

Honestly with how close the two were together the beam was probably at the height of Robert prior to Liltotto dodging.
 
I can't find a better way of scaling the distance at this point. Maybe the anime will provide us with some info.

Until then, I propose we downscale her speed to 0.05c / baseline Sub-Relativistic+. I'll need to double-check with some other staff members that this is appropriate, but at the moment this seems like the best option to me.
 
Well can we get to Gin's bankai speed to calc the distance to the palace now?


So far nobody has given a reason to not use the canon stated speed to calc that distance.


So it's just 500 times the speed of sound for 9h15min

343 . 500 = 171500 m/s
171500 . 33.300 = 5.710.950.000


Results​


Distance to the soul society from the palace = 5.710.950.000m
 
@Hasch; we're not using that.

And this isn't the thread for finding the distance anyway. This is just for detirmining the scaling of characters affected by the speed calc.
 
@Hasch; we're not using that.

And this isn't the thread for finding the distance anyway. This is just for detirmining the scaling of characters affected by the speed calc.

I don't see a reason to not use it.

So do I make the thread again in content revision?
 

Ichigo dodged and moved faster than Gin's Bankai, while being unable to do so with Aizen's shunpo.

Ichigo post palace is equal or greater than Aizen.

Ichigo from FKT SHUNPO >= mach 500
 
@KingTempest I see the rationale like this:

Gin's Bankai has a Mach 500 extension statement from the manga and databooks -> Butterflyzen has transcended all Shinigami (for the sake of brevity think of all Shinigami as just Gin) -> Ichigo ends up "standing in a dimension above" Aizen aka transcends an already transcendent Aizen -> Yhwach likens True Shikai Ichigo to the Ichigo that defeated Aizen.

Conclusion: TS Ichigo's shunpo is casually above Gin's Bankai.

Unresolved questions against this:
  • Why should Gin's Bankai speed correlate to TS Ichigo's shunpo?
    • In a vacuum it doesn't; however, we know that FKT Ichigo was able to react to Gin's Bankai and not Aizen. Therefore by the time Aizen has transcended Gin and the rest of the Shinigami, and then by the time Ichigo transcends Aizen, it should be fair to say that Ichigo is casually above that level of speed with his shunpo.
  • Is this calc stacking?
    • AFAIK, no. Since the realm of logic is TS Ichigo = Ichigo that beat Aizen > God Aizen > Butterflyzen > Gin and the rest of the Shinigami, and then that line of thinking would allow you to apply the Mach 500 speed to Ichigo relatively safely, because Ichigo is leaps and bounds above Gin at this point. Furthermore, this would be a lowball by the above logic, so it shouldn't lead to issues since it would make all further calcs from it low-ends. But, I think where this question comes from is part of the justification for saying TS Ichigo's shunpo > Gin's Bankai. Seeing how when people bring up stuff like "a weaker Ichigo dodged it" I think that invokes feelings of calc stacking.

Personally, I support using Mach 1000 as a minimum since Gin can double his Bankai speed as per a statement, and the logic above still applies. I also think using lightning speeds is reasonable, considering Candice's arrows are "fast enough to be called lightning speeds" in CFYOW and Ichigo was quite casual with evading them, not to mention the Femritters couldn't perceive Ichigo's entry from the trip but they are very much on par with Candice's lightning. Albeit, I agree with damage that it should be saved for a thread involving the actual distance calc and not a thread about who scales.
 
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