Bleach:Espada stats from CFYOW Novel

[Arc7Kuroi]

@zazabgfd I should get to your translations by tomorrow

 

[Hasch]

Narrator repeating what Iko says doesn't make it Espada Barragan. In fact the narrator doesn't specify which Barragan, the only instance of clarification is through Iko.

No, the narrator isn't repeating Ikomikidomoe's statement, and it does clarifies that is talking about Barragan when Grimmjow was a Espada.

Irrelevant, databooks state Yammy has the second hardest hierro, he has the second highest durability among the Espada.

Yet the canon continuation adds context to giant Hollows not being as resilient, and Yammy himself has pretty underwhelming durability feats.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No, the narrator isn't repeating Ikomikidomoe's statement, and it does clarifies that is talking about Barragan when Grimmjow was a Espada.

No he doesn’t, provide your scans.

Yet the canon continuation adds context to giant Hollows not being as resilient, and Yammy himself has pretty underwhelming durability feats.

Cool that’s your headcanon, I’ll go with the databooks verbatim stating he has the second highest durability. You haven’t provided anything that debunks that, nor can you, cuz such evidence doesn’t exist.

 

[zazabgfd]

You haven’t provided anything that debunkhat scan for definetlis that

Yammys dura is meh and very not that impressive and also this scan and moment from novel where Zaraki cant cut Cien implied that Hierro only a part of Arrancar dura and Reiatsu should be considerd as well

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yammys dura is meh and very not that impressive and also this scan and moment from novel where Zaraki cant cut Cien implied that Hierro only a part of Arrancar dura and Reiatsu should be considerd as well

Dude … all of those scans are for base Yammy … who isn’t the Cero Espada. None of that matters at all.

Edit: Also the last one doesn’t have anything from the Novel.

 

[zazabgfd]

I’ll go with the databooks verbatim stating he has the second highest durability.

the Cero Espada. None of that matters at all.

that matters in the context ,Arc said that he has the second highest durability and i just tried to argue that the second hardest Hierro is not equal the second highest durability.

Edit: Also the last one doesn’t have anything from the Novel.

yep,i know.Thats why i said: also this scan and moment from novel.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

that matters in the context ,Arc said that he has the second highest durability and i just tried to argue that the second hardest Hierro is not equal the second highest durability.

And you have proceeded to ignore context. His Hierro is the second hardest as the Cero Espada not in his base. Unless you wanna say that his base punches are the strongest out of any Espada?

yep,i know.Thats why i said: also this scan and moment from novel.

That scan doesn’t tell us anything about his released durability, just that he is the weakest combatant in that scene.

 

[Gitagon]

According to Kubo older Captains like Shunsui cannot zenkai. Base and Shikai Shinsui should be relatively the same across the board from SS arc all the way to CFYOW.

Bleach scaling is not that hard especially for top tiers but some people have already set their minds that some characters are hundreds or even thousands of times stronger than others when that isn't the case.

Starrk is still a top tier by EOS and so is Barragan.

 

[Deceived3596]

 

[zazabgfd]

His Hierro is the second hardest as the Cero Espada not in his base.

First one Show me where its stated.
Second one Show me where stated that Hierro could be upgraded via resurreccion

Unless you wanna say that his base punches are the strongest out of any Espada?

Yammys special note is about his Base.That is not "what i wanna say" ,that just how it is.
Statement literally said :その風貌に違わず/lives up to his appearance and his appearance was a big dude,even Viz stated the same

 

[zazabgfd]

According to Kubo older Captains like Shunsui cannot zenkai. Base and Shikai Shinsui should be relatively the same across the board from SS arc all the way to CFYOW.

 

[Gitagon]

It's also funny (not funny) how some people bring up databooks only when it's stuff they agree with and wank their favorite characters. We all know what the databooks say:

Fastest Shinigami: Soi Fon
Physically Strongest Shinigami: Komamura (he has the most endurance too)

Best Swordsman: Unohana had 100/100 here long before Kubo revealed her past.

Reiatsu and Kido is where Aizen and Yamamoto have 100/100

On the Espada side:

Hierro: Nnoitra then Yammy
Sonido: Zommari

However, anyone who has debated Bleach scaling for a while has seen people who dismiss Databook stats only when it doesn't agree with the scaling in their heads.

By the way according to databooks, Soi Fon speed > everyone including Aizen.

So if you want to bring up databooks to low-ball Barragan and Starrk you must acknowledge everything in them including stuff that puts Barragan in a positive light like his fight with Soi Fon. Whether he was using time manip alongside Sonido or not, that fight places Barragan's speed on another level.

If you ignore some parts of the databooks, then simply ignore everything. Don't only focus on stuff that paints your favorite character positively.

 

[zazabgfd]

Fastest Shinigami: Soi Fon

By the way according to databooks, Soi Fon speed > everyone including Aizen.

Is it stated?i dont recall this statment in Databook ,only in manga

but i agree with overall statment.I am doing so myself and could tell-that is true ,sometimes

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Is it stated?i dont recall this statment in Databook ,only in manga

but i agree with overall statment.I am doing so myself and could tell-that is true ,sometimes

It was stated somewhere in databook I am pretty sure. But forgot which databook it was

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Wait we are mainly forgetting something. Like bleach characters gets amps from emotions like Ginjo suddenly powering up to TS ICHIGO level we should consider Stark downgrading himself because of emotions that's all.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

First one Show me where its stated.

I don’t need to. I just need to use my brain. How about you actually show me where it refers to his base?

Second one Show me where stated that Hierro could be upgraded via resurreccion

Resurrección literally multiplies all of their stats? Why would the durability of their skin not go up as well? The fact that you either don’t know or are electing to ignore basic Bleach knowledge just goes to show your stance is wrong.

Yammys special note is about his Base.That is not "what i wanna say" ,that just how it is.
Statement literally said :その風貌に違わず/lives up to his appearance and his appearance was a big dude,even Viz stated the same

Prove it’s about his base. It doesn’t say it’s his base at all and that Databook came out almost a year after Yammy was revealed to be the strongest Espada in the manga. Unlike other bits of info where the text has an arrow pointing directly to the scene it’s referencing, that’s just an info box with no further clarification on its topic which is why we use context. Him being the strongest physically and second toughest in base is contradicted with everything we are told or shown in the manga. Guess when there is no contradiction? If it is talking about his release form.

We’ve been given multiple pieces of info and rather than go with a conclusion that reconciles all of it, you want to dismiss whatever fails to fit your preconceived narrative instead of checking your bias and being objective.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Wait we are mainly forgetting something. Like bleach characters gets amps from emotions like Ginjo suddenly powering up to TS ICHIGO level we should consider Stark downgrading himself because of emotions that's all.

This some major copium.

I’ll be responding to points later today.

 

[zazabgfd]

Resurrección literally multiplies all of their stats?

1.Nirgge Parduoc stated to become slower in his Resurrección,so...

2.Hierro is not a stat

Why would the durability of their skin not go up as well?

Because it was never stated.Because Nnoitra boast about his Hierro in base form and he never said "out all of Base Espada my Hierro is best"

The fact that you either don’t know or are electing to ignore basic Bleach knowledge just goes to show your stance is wrong.

its funny

Prove it’s about his base. It doesn’t say it’s his base at all and that Databook came out almost a year after Yammy was revealed to be the strongest Espada in the manga.

Databook could not share the information that was not yet revealed by chapters its about.And second databook goes up to 37 volume.

Him being the strongest physically and second toughest in base is contradicted with everything we are told or shown in the manga.

Kommamura is physically strongest captain by 1 databook and ? second Hierro doent mean he second toughest.

you want to dismiss whatever fails to fit your preconceived narrative instead of checking your bias and being objective.

its funny (2)

Guess when there is no contradiction?

when someone use his brain instead of using statments?

My i ask a question ?Who is more durable Nnoitra,Full Rage Yammy or Cien?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

My i ask a question ?Who is more durable Nnoitra,Full Rage Yammy or Cien?

Popped in and saw this, Full power Res Cien’s dura > Res Nnoitra’s dura > Res Yammy’s dura

 

[Deceived3596]

Res Nnoitra’s dura > Full power Res Cien’s dura > Res Yammy’s dura

FTFY

 

[Damage3245]

From what I can tell from the discussion so far, there would be too many scaling conflicts from this proposal.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

1.Nirgge Parduoc stated to become slower in his Resurrección,so...

Right, so not dura. Fun fact, everyone’s dura goes up in Res by feats.

2.Hierro is not a stat

No but durability is, something that Hierro falls under.

Because it was never stated.Because Nnoitra boast about his Hierro in base form and he never said "out all of Base Espada my Hierro is best"

The Nnoitra part is irrelevant. Your skin is part of your dura. It’s actually the very first thing that outside forces have to overcome. If dura goes up, so does the skin.

its funny

So no actual counter argument. Concession accepted.

Databook could not share the information that was not yet revealed by chapters its about.And second databook goes up to 37 volume.

The book literally came out after Yammy was revealed to be the Cero Espada, meaning that the info is there.

Kommamura is physically strongest captain by 1 databook and ? second Hierro doent mean he second toughest.

You keep saying this but don’t post scans. Hierro is literally the main defense. I see you also ignored the physically strongest part.

its funny (2)

Concession accepted.

when someone use his brain instead of using statments?

So you want to ignore scans and evidence, got it.

My i ask a question ?Who is more durable Nnoitra,Full Rage Yammy or Cien?

What Arc said.

 

[Baldurgate]

Any Conclusion about Prime Barragan stats? Did he stronger than Prime Szael(Cien)?

Yammy's/Starrk's abilities>3 GRC from Cien.

"If there was any power beyond that

Nah, 3 GRC is strongest his ability, so no.

But it's really funny, that highest AP ability is Nelliel's GRC Double(and Roca's, except Mugetsu) from all arrancars, lol.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Nel just the strongest Espada.

 

[zazabgfd]

Right, so not dura. Fun fact, everyone’s dura goes up in Res by feats.

No but durability is, something that Hierro falls under.

but that is my argument.Durability goes up because of Reiatsu increases

The book literally came out after Yammy was revealed to be the Cero Espada, meaning that the info is there.

Kubo said himself on which "knowledge" that databook is based on

Hierro is literally the main defense.

main also means only or what?0r maybe muscles dont have dura?

So no actual counter argument. Concession accepted.

Concession accepted.

not a concession.i just find these messages passive-aggressive so i dont want to properly answer.

What Arc said.

But How is Cien is more durable if Nnoitra stated to have best hiero among all Espada generations and Ciens hiero isnt even second best?

 

[zazabgfd]

Nah, 3 GRC is strongest his ability, so no

no.He literary does 10 of them on the pages i provided

数十本の触手から、一斉に『王虚の閃光』を撃ち放った。

translation:From dozen of tentacles, he shoot "Gran Rey Cero" at once.

 

[Gitagon]

Is it stated?i dont recall this statment in Databook ,only in manga

but i agree with overall statment.I am doing so myself and could tell-that is true ,sometimes

We have Databook stats for all Gotei 13 Captains covering their speed, physical strength, stamina and endurance, reiatsu and Kido mastery. I think even swordsmanship. It's a literal chart and one of the first ever released.

 

[Hasch]

No he doesn’t, provide your scans.

I did so in my first post, you had since pretended you don't understand the sentence.

Cool that’s your headcanon, I’ll go with the databooks verbatim stating he has the second highest durability. You haven’t provided anything that debunks that, nor can you, cuz such evidence doesn’t exist.

His feats prove his hierro is useless since nobody has any problem cutting him and the novel states giant Hollows just aren't that durable.

Canon novel and the manga have more validity than an old databook.

Prove it’s about his base. It doesn’t say it’s his base at all and that Databook came out almost a year after Yammy was revealed to be the strongest Espada in the manga. Unlike other bits of info where the text has an arrow pointing directly to the scene it’s referencing, that’s just an info box with no further clarification on its topic which is why we use context. Him being the strongest physically and second toughest in base is contradicted with everything we are told or shown in the manga. Guess when there is no contradiction? If it is talking about his release form.

We’ve been given multiple pieces of info and rather than go with a conclusion that reconciles all of it, you want to dismiss whatever fails to fit your preconceived narrative instead of checking your bias and being objective.

Should be about his base since that whole page has stat and info about his base state.



In the end, because Starrk is a peer to Shunsui and he is comparable to Byakuya, there's no contradiction.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@zazabgfd can you quote your post with the raws?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

but that is my argument.Durability goes up because of Reiatsu increases

You got proof of that?

Kubo said himself on which "knowledge" that databook is based on

And Kubo was writing about Yammy being the strongest Espada in the manga while writing the book.

main also means only or what?0r maybe muscles dont have dura?

Where did I say or imply that? Main means the primary defense or what contributes most. This is backed up by every time an Arrancar comments on their durability, they specifically reference their Hierro.

• Edrad specifically points out an Arrancar’s skin being extremely durable like they are wearing armor. Armor > the person wearing it unless you are Boros
• Ulq sees Yammy lose his arm and thinks about how Ichigo cutting through his Hierro no diff as surprising/impressive
• Grimm mocks Rukia by saying her ice could only freeze the top layer of his skin aka Hierro
• Nnoitra harps on and on about his Hierro being the toughest and how this means no one can scratch or harm him
• Kenny sharpens his reiatsu to cut through Nnoitra’s Hierro, not pierce his reiatsu or anything like that.
• Databooks talk about Yammy being the strongest and his Hierro being the second hardest
• Ichigo comments on Ulq’s Hierro being tough despite landing a direct blow.
• Uryu calls Yammy really durable despite firing a charged arrow because said arrow couldn’t penetrate him. The arrow didn’t even pierce his skin and considering how the arrow pushed into his body but couldn’t actually draw blood, the skin > the stuff underneath it.

If the scan refers to base Yammy, Ichigo should have an easier time cutting through Ulq than he did Yammy which makes no sense.

But How is Cien is more durable if Nnoitra stated to have best hiero among all Espada generations and Ciens hiero isnt even second best?

Do you have the scan for that? I’ve seen scans that say he has the strongest Hierro but don’t recall it being for all Espada ever. Also, what says Cien’s isn’t even second best? Yammy’s says his second best but it is in the context of the current generation.

Should be about his base since that whole page has stat and info about his base state.

So it doesn’t specify. Base contradicts the manga, release doesn’t (which we know Kubo was writing about while he wrote MASKED).

 

[zazabgfd]

@zazabgfd can you quote your post with the raws?

Can we put other things on a hold for a little while?i think this part is more important at the moment

Roca absorbed 3 Gran Rey Cero from Cien and Fired them Back.Cien used all his tentacles to defend himself.

Several of his tentacles were torn off.And then he stated that Roca could do more damage to him reproducing Starrks wolves or Respira.As i understand Respira goes for hax ,but wolves are just explosions so they should go for AP right?

Translation of some parts from those pages.

両手と口から三点同時の 『王虚の閃光』を撃ち出した。

From both hands and mouth, he/Cien shot three rounds at the same time, "The Flash of the King's Hollow/Gran Rey Cero”

彼女は大きく口を開く。一形さるロカが何をするつもりなのか理解すると同時に、シエンは残された触手で自らの身体を覆い隠し、完全な防御態勢に移行した。そして、次の瞬間||彼の放った技はロカの口へと吸いこまれ、一瞬の間を置いて、そのままこちらに吐き返された。

She/Roka opens her mouth wide. As soon as Cien understood what Roca was going to do, he covered his body with tentacles and moved into full defense mode. Then, the next moment,His technique was sucked into Roca's mouth, and after a moment, it was spit back.

あか自らの王虚の光を喰らったシエンの身体は、消滅こそしなかったものの、触手の何本かが千切れ飛び、ロカよりも多くの血を大地に染みこませていた。

Although Cien's body, which had eaten by his own Gran Rey Ceros, did not disappear, some of the tentacles were torn apart.

息を僅かに荒らげながら、シエンは不敵に言い放つ。「危なかったよ。もしも倍返しされていたら、腕の一つぐらいは千切られてるかrおロいたかもしれない。だが、君は今の王虚の閃光に

With a slight breathlessness, Cien speaks. "It was dangerous. If it had been doubled, maybe one of my arms had been torn off as well.

「君が準備している攻撃は、今の 『王虚の閃光』よりも上という事か……」焦燥に満ちた表情で、ロカを強く睨みつける。「一体何をその 『糸』で再現するつもりだ……！スタークの群狼か？バラガンの呪いか？それとも、最大解放状態のヤミーの巨体でもその 『糸』で再現するつもりか？」。「それを超える力など、この虚圏に存在したとすれば藍染様か今の僕だけだ！

Is the attack you are preparing now is even more powerful than the last Gran Rey Ceros.With a frustrated expression, Cien glares at Roca. "What on earth are you going to reproduce with your ability ! Stark's Wolfs? Is it the curse/respira of Barragan? Or you going to reproduce the maximal released of Yammy giant body ?". "If there was any power beyond that in Hueco Mundo, it would be Aizen-sama or my current power!

1.だが、肝心の戦闘能力はどこまで再現できているのか。それが現在重要な点だ。 確実に、あの姿での戦闘らしい戦闘は初めての筈だ。
Translation:
But ,to what extend she could reproduce vital/crucial combat abilities?Thats what matters right now.This must be her first battle in that form.

Cien knowing her abilities isnt sure if she could reproduce the fullpower of dangerous abilities that could potentially made that fight difficult for him

Also the core of her character is 再現-reproduction.In novel there are 0 implications that she could make techniques stronger with her reproduction alone.

2.分身できるのは、4体までか。本来の技の持ち主ならば、5体まで分身できた筈だ。 「...... やはり、100パーセント再現できるわけじゃあないようだね」
Translation:
So she could create 4 doppelgangers?When original user of that skill perfomed it, he could create 5 doppelgangers.After all, she can not reproduced 100% of it.

In her resurrection she faild to reproduce this technique at its 100%.

3.相手の虚閃(セロ)を呑みこみ、自分の虚閃(セロ)を上乗せして打ち返すカウンター技だ。 本来ならネリエルしか使えない技だが、ロカは、糸で己自身の身体を操る事により、彼女の技を再現してみせたのである。 だが ── 自分のものでもない技で、王虚の閃光(グラン・レイ・セロ)を受け止めるのは無茶だったようだ。 ロカは勢いよく血を吐き出し、顔を蒼くしながら砂の上に跪く。
Translation:
This is a counter technique in which you absorbs the opponent's Cero, adding your own Cero to it, then strikes back.
It belongs to Nelliel, a technique unsuitable for others, but Roka has reproduced it by manipulating her own body with threads.
However... it seems to have been sheer recklessness to fend off Gran Rey Cero with a technique that was not her own.
Roka was coughing up blood profusely, kneeling on the sand, her face quite pale.

「危なかったよ。だが、君は今の王虚の閃光 に、自分の虚閃 を上乗せすらしなかったらしい」 「やはり、今の虚閃重奏も完全に防御の為だけに使ったようだね……」
Translation:
- It was quite dangerous ! But still, you didn't even add your own Cero to the current Gran Rey Cero.

- Still, it looks like the Cero Doble was only used for Absolute Defence, doesn't it ?

We dont know could she add her own Cero or not,Cien thought that this is possible.But the thing is that Narita again emphasizes that this isnt her technique.

like this?

 

[zazabgfd]

You got proof of that?

But Cien being more durable isnt a proof dispaite his Hierro being weaker?

Do you have the scan for that? I’ve seen scans that say he has the strongest Hierro but don’t recall it being for all Espada ever.

No other Espada ever was said to have Hierro stronger than him

Also, what says Cien’s isn’t even second best?

1.There no even 1 line in Safyw about his Hierro being something special

2.Even if it was second best,Nnoitra still should be more durabale if Reiatsu isnt playing significant part in dura

This is backed up by every time an Arrancar comments on their durability

Because that what separated them from Shinigami.Reiastu dura is universal .But Arrancars have both one on top of the other

And Kubo was writing about Yammy being the strongest Espada in the manga while writing the book.

How is this relevant if Kubo dosent use information beyond volume 37 in that databook?Yammy stated on thath page to be 10 Espada.Not 10 and 0.So the page is about 10 Espada Yammy

 

[Deceived3596]

No other Espada ever was said to have Hierro stronger than him

This is quite clearly in reference towards the current generation of Espada and not the generation of Espada which Cien was a part of. (or the Espada as a whole for that matter)

Let's actually deconstruct and take a deeper look at the text of the scan that you just sent.

"The attack that had once even penetrated through the Hierro of Nnoitra, whose pride was being the hardest of the Espada"

Nnoitra only prides himself on having the hardest Heirro of the Espada when he becomes of the 5th Espada, before then he never brought up nor implied that he had the hardest Heirro of the Espada.

Which means this is in reference towards 5th Espada Nnoitra, not 8th Espada Nnoitra or the Espada as a whole, and guess what generation of the Espada is 5th Espada Nnoitra a part of? oh, yeah the current one.

So before posting things like this believing that it'll substantiate your arguments, actually read the text more indepthly next time so you don't have these moments of blatant wrongness that devalue your arguments as a whole.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

But Cien being more durable isnt a proof dispaite his Hierro being weaker?

You don’t have any evidence that his Hierro is weaker tho. You’re just claiming it.

No other Espada ever was said to have Hierro stronger than him

That doesn’t say he had the hardest Hierro of any Espada ever, which is what you claimed. That says his Hierro was the hardest out of the Espada. Cien was never part of a roster with Nnoitra, and even if he was, we don’t have any statements claiming Nnoitra’s was the hardest so it would never apply to Cien’s Hierro.

What Deceived said.

1.There no even 1 line in Safyw about his Hierro being something special

And half the Espada have no mention of their Hierro being special but that doesn’t mean we assume it’s trash or weaker than people who are less durable than them. Hierro is constantly used as the measure for how durable an Espada is so Cien by default of surviving several of his own GRC has better Hierro.

2.Even if it was second best,Nnoitra still should be more durabale if Reiatsu isnt playing significant part in dura

Nnoitra and Yammy’s statements never apply to Cien unless you can prove they do. All of the statements were made in the context of the current generation or else it wouldn’t make sense for Yammy to be called the strongest when Cien is blatantly stronger.

Because that what separated them from Shinigami.Reiastu dura is universal .But Arrancars have both one on top of the other

And reiatsu covers the Shinigami as evidenced by Ichigo swinging on Kenny and doing nothing at all. Hierro is the skin under the reiatsu which means the attacks that interact with Hierro have overcome the reiatsu in the way. X’s Hierro > X’s reiatsu

How is this relevant if Kubo dosent use information beyond volume 37 in that databook?Yammy stated on thath page to be 10 Espada.Not 10 and 0.So the page is about 10 Espada Yammy

And the statement objectively doesn’t make sense if they refer to his base. If you wanna say it is for his base, make the CRT for why base Yammy > Res Starrk

And your argument is that MASKED calls 10 Yammy the weakest Espada and then also calls said weak form the strongest?

 

[zazabgfd]

This is quite clearly in reference towards the current generation of Espada and not the generation of Espada which Cien was a part of. (or the Espada as a whole for that matter)

Let's actually deconstruct and take a deeper look at the text of the scan that you just sent.

thats why i also said:No other Espada ever was said to have Hierro stronger than him.Narita wrote 2 novels and there are 0 statments that anyone have Hierro that supressed his.

So before posting things like this believing that it'll substantiate your arguments,

when i write text in link i assume other members would read both things.But probably i could elaborate.

Narita have plenty opportunities to said something about Ciens Hierro to hype him up.But he did not.especially when there are a scene where he stopted Zarakis blade.So Canonicaly Nnoitra and Yammy both have better Hierro that he does,until someone stated otherwise

so you don't have these moments of blatant wrongness that devalue your arguments as a whole.

that is not "moments of blatant wrongness" ,thats me just assuming i dont need to say obvios things like:There are 0 statments about someone having Better Hierro that Nnoitra

You don’t have any evidence that his Hierro is weaker tho. You’re just claiming it.

Oooo ,but i have evidence.

1) Canonicaly Nnoitra and Yammy stated to have most hard Hierro

2)Canonicaly Cien or Narita never stated anything about his Hierro

Also you claiming his Hierro is better by feats i assume ,but there are 0 statmenst that supported it in the lore.

What Deceived said.

i answer him,so check it

Nnoitra and Yammy’s statements never apply to Cien unless you can prove they do.

Cien has 0 statment about his Hierro,if he would have a better one then Novel would say so.Like it said that he has more Reiatsu than Yammy

Hierro is the skin under the reiatsu which means the attacks that interact with Hierro have overcome the reiatsu in the way. X’s Hierro > X’s reiatsu

Reiatsu is what make everything under Hierro durable:Muscles and Bones.

And the statement objectively doesn’t make sense if they refer to his base.

so you dont like it and that means it is objectively wrong?

Okey,how Base Yammy surviver Shikai Toshiro and Shikai Urahara without good Hierro?

If you wanna say it is for his base, make the CRT for why base Yammy > Res Starrk

why?Starrk only lose the contest of hard puching with the feast in every other way he is superior

And your argument is that MASKED calls 10 Yammy the weakest Espada and then also calls said weak form the strongest?

my argument in last post is that MASKED calls Yammy 10 Espada.And only UNMASKED called him both 10 and 0

 

[AnonymousBlank]

thats why i also said:No other Espada ever was said to have Hierro stronger than him.Narita wrote 2 novels and there are 0 statments that anyone have Hierro that supressed his.

Because it doesn’t need to be said. Did you need to get told Substitute Ichigo was stronger than Substitute Rukia too?

when i write text in link i assume other members would read both things.But probably i could elaborate.

Maybe if both things actually matched up, he wouldn’t be explaining basic English to you.

Narita have plenty opportunities to said something about Ciens Hierro to hype him up.But he did not.especially when there are a scene where he stopted Zarakis blade.So Canonicaly Nnoitra and Yammy both have better Hierro that he does,until someone stated otherwise

Are you daft? If Cien can stop Kenny’s blade, presumably with his Hierro since that’s the topic at hand, he literally has a feat that puts his Hierro > Yammy and Nnoitra’s Hierro. Why on earth do you need what’s on the page to be spoon fed to you even more?

that is not "moments of blatant wrongness" ,thats me just assuming i dont need to say obvios things like:There are 0 statments about someone having Better Hierro that Nnoitra

You brought up a feat for Cien > Nnoitra yourself. Why would you need someone else to tell you this?

Oooo ,but i have evidence.

Hilarious when you haven’t provided any evidence that actually supports your stance. All you’ve done is link things that don’t corroborate your words.

1) Canonicaly Nnoitra and Yammy stated to have most hard Hierro

Yeah, you keep ignoring context

2)Canonicaly Cien or Narita never stated anything about his Hierro

He doesn’t need to.

Also you claiming his Hierro is better by feats i assume ,but there are 0 statmenst that supported it in the lore.

Dude … if someone blows up a building by cracking his knuckles, we don’t need a statement telling us he can do so. We can see/read that he did it.

i answer him,so check it

Dunno why you are being snippy when you hadn’t posted a response before I sent this.

Cien has 0 statment about his Hierro,if he would have a better one then Novel would say so.Like it said that he has more Reiatsu than Yammy

He doesn’t need statements about it. He has feats.

Reiatsu is what make everything under Hierro durable:Muscles and Bones.

It literally isn’t. Reiatsu is how your energy is exerted on the surroundings, including yourself. Need I remind you that the reiatsu of Ichigo’s Bankai was crushing those muscles and bones because his body couldn’t handle it? Or Kenny’s arm exploding because of too much reiatsu? Or Aizen being about to have his entire body vaporised from the inside out by his reiatsu? This is a legitimately stupid take.

so you dont like it and that means it is objectively wrong?

No. The fact that he is the weakest Espada in base. If his base is the weakest, how tf can his base be the strongest?

Okey,how Base Yammy surviver Shikai Toshiro and Shikai Urahara without good Hierro?

Who said his Hierro wasn’t good? Yoruichi was breaking her hands on Yammy’s Hierro to the point Kisuke specifically made her anti-Hierro armor so that it wouldn’t happen again. Also Toshiro is trash while Kisuke was trolling Yammy and not trying.

why?Starrk only lose the contest of hard puching with the feast in every other way he is superior

Where did it say punching? It said Yammy’s arms are the strongest out of all the Espada.

my argument in last post is that MASKED calls Yammy 10 Espada.And only UNMASKED called his both 10 and 0

And your argument doesn’t work as it would contradict Yammy being the weakest.

 

[zazabgfd]

Maybe if both things actually matched up, he wouldn’t be explaining basic English to you.

That is okey to insult people here or what?

1.He is not explaining basic English to me,he is completly miss the point i tried to make,so i elaborate

2.English is my 5th language,so if he indeed explaining some basic English to me with proper context it woul be very nice of him.

Are you daft?

Very rude indeed

Why on earth do you need what’s on the page to be spoon fed to you even more?

so people like you stop ignoring statments and substitute them with their Headcanon

You brought up a feat for Cien > Nnoitra yourself. Why would you need someone else to tell you this?

The whole point of me broughting it up is to show that Reiatsu worked in tandem with Hierro. You said this yourself- "Hierro is the skin under the reiatsu which means the attacks that interact with Hierro have overcome the reiatsu in the way." - and i agreed ,but why dont you cut off some of the "power" attack has when it overcome the reiatsu?My whole point is that Hierro is 1 layer of dura between external Reiatsu defense and internal defense.

He has feats.

For dura not for Hierro.

It literally isn’t.

ok,so what made Shinigami internals tough in your opinion?

The fact that he is the weakest Espada in base. If his base is the weakest, how tf can his base be the strongest?

He never stated to be strongest in MASKED.Only that his physical strength is evident and he can punch hard

And characters could possess high destructive power with physical strength alone:Koma,Po,Ayon.

Ayon with brute strength has Better Feats than FB Ichigo.I "assume" Ayon just has more Reiastu and just stronger then him

Where did it say punching? It said Yammy’s arms are the strongest out of all the Espada.And your argument doesn’t work as it would contradict Yammy being the weakest.

両腕から繰り出す攻撃の破壊力は十刃随一

両腕 - arms

破壊力 - destructive power

ら繰り出す - to unleash , to send out

攻撃 - attack,strike,offensive

随一best, greatest

十刃 - Espada

Attack that is unleash from his arms has best destructive power in Espada.

And when i last cheched - Attack that is unleash from arms was called - punch

How it contradict Yammy being the weakest?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

That is okey to insult people here or what?

That isn’t an insult? If you feel insulted by it’s that’s on you.

1.He is not explaining basic English to me,he is completly miss the point i tried to make,so i elaborate

He is though. When he is explaining what the sentence means and how it differs from what you are saying, he is

2.English is my 5th language,so if he indeed explaining some basic English to me with proper context it woul be very nice of him.

Very rude indeed

Sure, whatever.

so people like you stop ignoring statments and substitute them with their Headcanon

This coming from the guy who said the internal organs of souls are made from reiatsu? Right.

The whole point of me broughting it up is to show that Reiatsu worked in tandem with Hierro. You said this yourself- "Hierro is the skin under the reiatsu which means the attacks that interact with Hierro have overcome the reiatsu in the way." - and i agreed ,but why dont you cut off some of the "power" attack has when it overcome the reiatsu?My whole point is that Hierro is 1 layer of dura between external Reiatsu defense and internal defense.

And every time an Arrancar’s durability is brought up, people talk specifically about the Hierro and not their reiatsu. Espada are ranked by their reiatsu which means Cero Yammy has more than the rest of them yet despite this, Kenny had a harder time cutting a few inches into Nnoitra than he did lopping off entire building sized limbs from Yammy. Reiatsu doesn’t play into the durability of Arrancar’s much if at all whereas Hierro is always brought up as the actual reason why they are tough to harm.

For dura not for Hierro.

See above.

ok,so what made Shinigami internals tough in your opinion?

…… reishi … you remember that, right? The spiritual matter stuff that Kisuke literally explains to us that their bodies are made of?

He never stated to be strongest in MASKED.Only that his physical strength is evident and he can punch hard

So despite the fact that Espada are ranked in terms of reiatsu and that reiatsu boosts your stats (including strength) proportionally (as seen with Gentei Kaijo), Yammy is the strongest Espada in base? Aight then.

And characters could possess high destructive power with physical strength alone:Koma,Po,Ayon.

Guess what they also have? Higher reiatsu. Komamura literally only fights people with more reiatsu than him or Tosen because Po was not a fight whatsoever.

Ayon with brute strength has Better Feats than FB Ichigo.I assume Ayon just has more Reiastu and just stronger then him

Weird stance for you to have given your track record so far. Ayon has none of those vaunted statements you seem to want for everything else yet you simply assume he has more reiatsu than FB Bankai because he is physically stronger … even though you made a distinction between them when you said base Yammy’s punches are stronger than Starrk’s punches even though strength is apparently dependent on your reiatsu.

両腕から繰り出す攻撃の破壊力は十刃随一

両腕 - arms

破壊力 - destructive power

ら繰り出す - to unleash , to send out

攻撃 - attack,strike,offensive

随一best, greatest

十刃 - Espada

Attack that is unleash from his arms has best destructive power in Espada.

‘Kay so this is nice and all but I’ve already seen the translation for this as well as the Viz scans. Onto what you sent though … I’m not sure if you’ve realised this but the translation you just gave me says that base (because this is your stance) Yammy’s punches are stronger than anything the other Espadas can throw out. So you’ve once again called the weakest Espada the strongest.

And when i last cheched - Attack that is unleash from arms was called - punch

You know what other attacks are released from his arms? Bala … which he told us is weaker than his Cero and thus all of the variants as well. Ergo you are being that Patrick meme where you agree on the reasoning behind my claim but refuse the conclusion for no reason.

How it contradict Yammy being the weakest?

Read above.

 

[zazabgfd]

This coming from the guy who said the internal organs of souls are made from reiatsu? Right.

eeeeemmmm what?I said that reiatsu is what made their bodys tougher and that includes their internals.More reiatsu you have more durable become every part of you.

…… reishi … you remember that, right? The spiritual matter stuff that Kisuke literally explains to us that their bodies are made of?

You realised that Reishi in shinigami body contain Reiatsu right?And the more you have overall the more of it your Reishi contain.

This coming from the guy who said the internal organs of souls are made from reiatsu? Right.

i never said that.You made it up

Espada are ranked by their reiatsu

That is literally never was stated.Only 1 of 4 statment about Espada ranking mentions Reiryoku and it was in MASKED.Other 3 bringing up skills,unique abilities and True Power.

which means Cero Yammy has more than the rest of them

If X has more Reiryoku that Y that does not mean X has more/stronger Reiatsu than Y.There are diffrent factors involved

So despite the fact that Espada are ranked in terms of reiatsu and that reiatsu boosts your stats

Again never stated that Espada are ranked in terms of reiatsu

Yammy is the strongest Espada in base? Aight then.

physical strength also could be related to characters Reitai.Characters with similar Reiryoku could have different physical strength because of their Reitai.And Kubo brought attention to in many times in manga and Databook

Weird stance for you to have given your track record so far.

Not Weird,just sarcasm

even though strength is apparently dependent on your reiatsu.

strength dependent on Reitai too.Several strength oriented characters have proper physical appearance.And Kubo always highlighted it and unique cases like Nnoitra who despite being skinny is very physically powerful

Yammy’s punches are stronger than anything the other Espadas can throw out. So you’ve once again called the weakest Espada the strongest.

How on earth this is correlate?Punching harder is not mean being stronger in a fight.You also need to land that Punch multiple times.Ayon punching harder that Opie and Ichigo,he is stronger than them?

You know what other attacks are released from his arms?

And his large build is correlating with energy attack now?

Ergo you are being that Patrick meme where you agree on the reasoning behind my claim but refuse the conclusion for no reason.

i love that joke and that episode

 

[AnonymousBlank]

eeeeemmmm what?I said that reiatsu is what made their bodys tougher and that includes their internals.More reiatsu you have more durable become every part of you.

Apologies. Misread. Still changes nothing given these guys need to overcome their opponent’s reiatsu to damage them yet Hierro is what stops them.

You realised that Reishi in shinigami body contain Reiatsu right?And the more you have overall the more of it your Reishi contain.

Reishi doesn’t contain reiatsu at all, it contains reiryoku which, when exerted outwards, becomes reiatsu.

That is literally never was stated.Only 1 of 4 statment about Espada ranking mentions Reiryoku and it was in MASKED.Other 3 bringing up skills,unique abilities and True Power.

Right so more reiryoku = higher ranking and higher ranking = stronger than the guys below = more reiatsu. Example

• Szayel says he is stronger than Aaronierro in the Hell tie in chapter because of his rank
• Nel says she is stronger than Grimmjow because of her rank
• Nnoitra hates Nel because she is ranked higher and stronger than him
• He also tells her that it’s been years while he and the other Espada got stronger so her rank doesn’t mean she is necessarily stronger than him anymore
• Grimm loses an arm and his rank because of the drop in power
• Shawlong says the Espada are ranked by power
• Ulq says Yammy would lose his rank because of the drop in power from losing his arm

There is shit tons of statements that say the Espada are ranked based on power which = reiatsu. There is nothing wrong with my statement at all so your nitpicking is pointless. But even if we were to go by that one statement of it being based on reiryoku, we got a rather blatant example via Yammy, who needs to store up reiryoku for a full release, is > the rest with said full release. Wow, it’s almost like there is a correlation here. Logic dictates the more reiryoku you have, the more strength you have.

If X has more Reiryoku that Y that does not mean X has more/stronger Reiatsu than Y.There are diffrent factors involved

See above.

Again never stated that Espada are ranked in terms of reiatsu

Again, see above.

physical strength also could be related to characters Reitai.Characters with similar Reiryoku could have different physical strength because of their Reitai.And Kubo brought attention to in many times in manga and Databook

Such as? If you are gonna bring up the fact that it is mentioned many times in the manga and databook, at least reference some of these many times.

Not Weird,just sarcasm

Not sarcasm, just backtracking.

strength dependent on Reitai too.Several strength oriented characters have proper physical appearance.

So not all of them have the “appropriate” physical appearance to match their feats. Almost sounds like they physical appearance doesn’t actually matter in regards to their strength.

And Kubo always highlighted it and unique cases like Nnoitra who despite being skinny is very physically powerful

And you’ve once again gone against your own stance. Why would you even bother bringing up their appearance if you want to immediately turn around and say it doesn’t matter? How they look doesn’t stop them from being weak or anything. See Jidanbo being enormous but being trash to the likes of Ikkaku or the lieutenants. Hell, the very idea of Zanpakuto size vs the strength of the Zanpakuto goes against the idea of the being’s physical body playing any part in their strength. Bigger =/= stronger.

How on earth this is correlate?

Because you have already agreed that more reiatsu is what makes you stronger. Then you even gave a translation that says

“Attack that is unleash from his arms has best destructive power in Espada”.

Do you actually not understand that the bolded means his punches are more destructive than anything the other Espada have?

Punching harder is not mean being stronger in a fight.

Yes it does. If you can hit someone harder aka exert more force than they, you are very literally stronger than them.

You also need to land that Punch multiple times.Ayon punching harder that Opie and Ichigo,he is stronger than them?

Yes … he literally is stronger than Quilge and probably FB Bankai Ichigo as well. Or do you not recall Ayon mangling the Nazi no diff?

And his large build is correlating with energy attack now?

1. You understand what force is right? It’s a form of energy.
2. Slightly off topic but you’re also gonna have to reread that scan because it’s not saying he punches the hardest because of his large body, but that his punches are the strongest, befitting his giant size. Kubo is talking about the impression Yammy gives off with his large build matching up with the fact he can punch harder than the rest.
3. By your own translation, “Attack that is unleash from his arms has best destructive power in Espada”. Balas, a type of energy attack, are released from his arms, specifically his fist. Your translation doesn’t make any mention of punches at all.

i love that joke and that episode

At least we can agree you got decent humor.