Bleach Calc issues

[TataHakai]

I'll never understand why we disregard pixel scaling to find the size of seiretei or to debunk the statement but in the same breath use pixel scaling to find the size of the meteor and upgrade the verse, it's like we pick and choose what's beneficial and ignore everything that isn't for bleach.

 

[Link_Eternal]

I thought it was because the seireitei was drawn with a different scale multiple times, (once within the same chapter, iirc). Also, the seireitei depictions have never shown us everything that is in the seireitei, despite containing the border in the panel.(there is at least one mountain in the seireitei and Squad One's barracks have an elevated view, but we never see it in the wide shots.)

While the meteor only had like, one or two panels and both were consistent?

 

[Damage3245]

While the meteor only had like, one or two panels and both were consistent?

Why not use pixel scaling on the Wandenreich and the meteor then? We can compare the size of a person (Uryu for example) to the size of the Wandenreich, then scale the Wandenreich to the meteor. Instead of trying to get the size of Seireitei.

 

[Link_Eternal]

Isn't the wandereich the same size as the seireitei?

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I'll never understand why we disregard pixel scaling to find the size of seiretei or to debunk the statement but in the same breath use pixel scaling to find the size of the meteor and upgrade the verse, it's like we pick and choose what's beneficial and ignore everything that isn't for bleach.

^ This is a very good point. Either we should just stick with the current calc and current 6-B ratings OR go with the accepted end of Raven Supreme's size estimate and use the impact calculator.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is my major issue as well. I believe I've called it "Schrodinger's Kubo", or something in a thread.

We both consider and do not consider the Bleach artwork unreliable depending on the circumstance and convenience. When it comes to quantifying the size of literally any place (Seireitei, Las Noches, Soul King Palace), it is unreliable, but when it comes to quantifying explosions or meteors or anything which can destroy these places it is suddenly fine.

Like, you can quite comfortably look at any scan featuring Gremmy's meteor and you won't find it nor Seireitei below as being anywhere near the size the statement gives it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Maybe the op should've done more research before coming out with the claim he stated....
PS: I'm not throwing any shade, just stating something

There's nothing wrong with being too careful, after whats happened already. Thats all im saying.

If there's no issues (other than what Soldier Blue and Matt pointed out) in the calcs then there's nothing to worry about.

 

[Ovy7]

I'm for the current size of Seireitei (the 500km one made by Raven, I think), but I also agree to what Matthew and Soldier are saying. Using statements for Seireitei's size and after that using pixel calc for the meteor's size is kinda fishy IMO.

The best option is to use the currently accepted size we got using the statements, and just find how much power it requiers to destroy something that size, then apply that to the meteor.

 

[Zzsax]

I'm for the current size of Seireitei (the 500km one made by Raven, I think), but I also agree to what Matthew and Soldier are saying. Using statements for Seireitei's size and after that using pixel calc for the meteor's size is kinda fishy IMO.

The best option is to use the currently accepted size we got using the statements, and just find how much power it requiers to destroy something that size, then apply that to the meteor.

This

 

[Link_Eternal]

@Matt

I'm not sure where you're coming from. Unless you are suggesting that we disregard charcter statement and instead only ever consider Kubo's art I don't see the point of this. Going purely by statements: Seireitei is big (Twice the size of Texas?) - Gremmy's meteor could break it - Kenpachi casually overwhelmed the attack capable of destroying the Seireitei. Kenpachi casual Texas buster? Since, I think this is considered an outlier, and going purely by art caused the birth of many arguementative threads, a healthy balance of statements, and consistent artwork was needed.

Because Kubo's art is unreliable, (I believe everyone agreed to that on another thread I read) we must use statements, as long as those statements themselves are reliable (child Nel vs Yoruichi). Now, since the locations in question are still intact, and have never been directly targeted or struck by any attack that are stated to be capable of destroying them, the potential of those attacks are still in debate I believe, and this site generally only uses the capacity shown.

Now, unlike permanent structures/locations, explosions are fleeting and usually are only shown in, at most a small handful of panels, and their scopes are just about never mentioned by the characters, we are thus forced to use what we can visully see and so pixel scaling is the result.

As for the meteor, the size of the meteor is never stated

Also, I can't find an official meteor scan that shows both the meteor and the full Seireitei. Most panels show the meteor from the point of view of the ground, meaning we would need the size of the meteor to figure out how far they are from the meteor, and thus the relation between their size and the meteor's. And as the only information we are given on the meteor's size is how it pixel scales to the seireitei.

A thought; do we need the meteor's size? If the size is being so contested, why not simply find the force needed to destroy the seireitei (with different ends, surface wipe, pulverize, crater it idk) and just scale to that. Ignore the size entirely.

 

[RavenSupreme]

My ends have been 203 or 250, which resulted in an accepted and used compromise of 228 from what I recall. And this new size was simply applied in the already previously accepted Meteor Calc from Kep / Gwen.

Nothing more or less actually.

 

[TataHakai]

While the meteor only had like, one or two panels and both were consistent?

The meteor is comparable to a building in size in one panel then it's comparable to the size of seiretei in another, far from consistent.

 

[TataHakai]

You can literally scale this building to Yhwach and Co then scale it to the meteor which is supposed to be "1/3rd the size of seiretei"

 

[Damage3245]

I've been saying this whole time that that's the panel we ought to use for scaling purposes. Just need to work out how big that building is.

 

[TataHakai]

it was already done by Dariel Senju

Ishida Height = 8px = 1.77 m

Silbern Ceiling = 130px = 28.76 m

 

[TataHakai]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dariel_Senju/Bleach_Downgrade,_Gremmy_Meteor

Whole calc is here and it makes it High 6-C with an arguable speed since the meteor doesn't even come from outer space so escape velocity might be wrong.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

^That's an outdated calc we don't even use, we used keps instead.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

My ends have been 203 or 250, which resulted in an accepted and used compromise of 228 from what I recall. And this new size was simply applied in the already previously accepted Meteor Calc from Kep / Gwen.

Nothing more or less actually.

.

 

[Zzsax]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Dariel_Senju/Bleach_Downgrade,_Gremmy_Meteor

Whole calc is here and it makes it High 6-C with an arguable speed since the meteor doesn't even come from outer space so escape velocity might be wrong.

His power is reality warping and It was imagined as an outer space meteor plus it was on fire,those are dead giveaways.its safe to say is from outer space except proof of otherwise

 

[TataHakai]

Being on fire just means it's ablated, the speed for those is 2-4 kilometers per second

When was it ever stated to be an "outer space meteor"? how does Gremmy know how fast meteors move in the real world? why would gremmy bother to bring it from outer space when he can just imagine it at the top of seiretei?

As for Kep's calc

you mean the High 6-B one here?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Reposting_Essential_Bleach_Calcs

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

.....

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

What calcs would need to be revised if the size of the seiretei gets changed?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

n/a

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Wall of text

The only possible and logical way a meteor would be on fire in the atmosphere if it had entered the atmosphere from space.

The notion that he simply imagined a burning meteor above seiretei and can still be able to destroy it without any kinda velocity or anyting behind it is ludicrous.

 

[Zzsax]

Wall of text

Lol the same way he knows the composition of missles and guns despite not being a physicist or weapons expert, I don't think you get how reality warping works.again all Meteors are from outer space except there is proof of otherwise.

 

[Link_Eternal]

I'm a bit confused, I can't find that page in the manga closest I've got is this.

[[1]]

Mayhaps I'm missing something vital.

 

[TataHakai]

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-576-page-18.html

 

[Link_Eternal]

Thank you. This is from the manga volume I take it? Not the jump mag.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well considering how incredibly incompetent and dumb Gremmy is, I honestly wouldn't be surprised of him just imagining the meteor above the Seireitei as opposed to it coming from space.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Well considering how incredibly incompetent and dumb Gremmy is, I honestly wouldn't be surprised of him just imagining the meteor above the Seireitei as opposed to it coming from space.

He's not dumb, just extremely self-absorbed, check my previous comment.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I'm for the current size of Seireitei (the 500km one made by Raven, I think), but I also agree to what Matthew and Soldier are saying. Using statements for Seireitei's size and after that using pixel calc for the meteor's size is kinda fishy IMO.
The best option is to use the currently accepted size we got using the statements, and just find how much power it requiers to destroy something that size, then apply that to the meteor.

This, due to Kubo's art I never attempted to use pixel scaling since literally another scan of the same thing would yield different results. I always stuck to statements in that regard.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, the calcs aren't really the worst problems. Right now, the characters that scale to Gemmysaur are 6-B which is good. I agree that the High 6-A calc is wanked, but it's currently rejected and not in use. As for the the god tiers on whether or not they're 6-A or 5-C, I'm personally neutral. Also, the Sub-Relativistic Mimihagi calc looks pretty good IMO.

The problems with the Bleach profiles aren't necessary their tiers or other statistics, but the borderline plagiarism from Bleach Wiki. Some of the Powers and Abilities section also might need to be altered to some extent.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

If you guys wanna leave out pixel scaling for stuff related to Seireitei, how are you gonna quantify the 5-C feat...?

 

[Malikobama1]

There was a thread a while back where people were talking about finding a size for Las Noches using horizon distance, so I've tried to do that. If any calc member is browsing this thread, please evaluate it.

 

[Omimi]

other vers

pixel scaling first then>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statements


bleach

statements first then>>>>>>>>>>>>>pixel scaling

so why should we make bleach exception from this rules?

every artist art inconsistent so dont use kabu art inconsistent

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

^Um, we don't do that fam

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

If you guys wanna leave out pixel scaling for stuff related to Seireitei, how are you gonna quantify the 5-C feat...?

Isn't that related to Yhwach lifting the Wandereich which is the size of Seireitei? You don't need pixel scaling to do that if you did it with statements.

Also, Malikobama1's blog on Las Noches appears to be a step towards working out the discussion from this older thread by Kep about Las Noches.

 

[Damage3245]

Were there not stilla lot of buildings on the ground after Yhwach remade the Soul King palace? So he didn't exactly lift up the entire Wandenreich.

 

[AstralKing7]

never looked at it from that perspective

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Were there not stilla lot of buildings on the ground after Yhwach remade the Soul King palace? So he didn't exactly lift up the entire Wandenreich.

The Wandenreich was covering Seireitei, so when Yhwach lifted the Wandenreich up, Seireitei was uncovered.

Those are the buildings you are talking about. We only see Seireitei in about literally 5 chapters after Yhwach did this, every time it was the original Seireitei buildings.