Bleach Bankai General Disussion Thread 13

[AppleLord]

Perphaps it makes sense to be compareble to True Bankai Ichigo since Tokinada said Ginjo was Soul King potential and that Ginjo had the power to destroyed the world if he wished to.

 

[KazuiK]

Ichigo almost did not use his Getsuga Tensho in his True Shikai and Bankai form, so it's hard to believe he's referring to True Shikai Ichigo and much less Bankai ..

 

[AppleLord]

Bankai Ginjo:

And so, that obstacle disappeared, allowing Ginjo to pass through.

He looked different. His hair had turned white. His black and white clothes had taken on a different form; like that of a skeletal armour. His sword had changed shape in an instant; with a skull upon it. His reiatsu escalated.

"Such mastery over your Hollow powers! Yes... I expected nothing less from a Rei-o candidate such as yourself! So, do you wish to kill Hikone and myself and then claim the throne of the Rei-o for yourself?"

...

"If you know all that, then how about it? If you become the Rei-o; with the powers of a Fullbringer, a Shinigami and Hollow, then you can either destroy this world or change it, wouldn't you agree?"

"I'm not interested. If we need to turn the world around; then we can do it in our own way."

 

[AppleLord]

Ichigo almost did not use his Getsuga Tensho in his True Shikai and Bankai form, so it's hard to believe he's referring to True Shikai Ichigo and much less Bankai ..

Novel is after the manga.

"...Slaughtering this Shinigami standing in front of me!"

Ginjo released a massive 'Getsuga Tensho' comparable in power to Ichigo's own. But the red flash emitted by Tokinada diverted its direction. It struck a faraway rocky mountain, greatly altering the terrain.

"Tch! He still had that kind of trick up his sleeve!"

The red flashes were from 'Hisagomaru'. They had been released by converting the wounds absorbed by its normal ability into its attacking ability. A slash created by accumulating all of Tokinada's wounds up till then was not successful in offsetting his opponent's attack, but it did manage to change the attack's direction at the last minute.

 

[Peter1129]

Wouldn't Bankai Ginjo being comparable to True Bankai Ichigo cause a lot of scaling problems? Cause I'm pretty sure that would mean a whole bunch of other characters such as Grimmjow and Tsukishima would become 5-C scaling from Bankai Ginjo.

 

[AppleLord]

Wouldn't Bankai Ginjo being comparable to True Bankai Ichigo cause a lot of scaling problems? Cause I'm pretty sure that would mean a whole bunch of other characters such as Grimmjow and Tsukishima would become 5-C scaling from Bankai Ginjo.

This is the first time Bankai Ginjo has appeared after his training with the Shiba clan in the manga. Grimmjow and Tsukushima scale to Base Ginjo.

 

[The_mysterious_man]

Then that will put Fullbringer Bankai Ichigo above true Shikai Ichigo I think he mean Fullbringer Bankai Ichigo it is impossible for it to be true Shikai true Bankai is more than impossible

 

[Peter1129]

Really? I thought Grimmjow fought Bankai Ginjo? Huh guess I misremembered the fight.

 

[AppleLord]

Then that will put Fullbringer Bankai Ichigo above true Shikai Ichigo I think he mean Fullbringer Bankai Ichigo it is impossible for it to be true Shikai true Bankai is more than impossible

We cannot do backward powerscaling when Ginjo should have his own key after his Shiba Clan training in the last arc. Tokinada is already in the same tier as Post Zero Squad Training Byakuya, Kyoraku, Urahara and Yoruichi.

 

[AppleLord]

Really? I thought Grimmjow fought Bankai Ginjo? Huh guess I misremembered the fight.

Grimmjow was sure he could beat True Shikai Ichigo who reacted with a guard stand once he sensed Grimmjow's pressence.

 

[The_mysterious_man]

Didn't Ginjo go bankai against Candice

 

[AppleLord]

Didn't Ginjo go bankai against Candice

All I remember from that fight was that he blitz and cancelled all of her attacks with ease.

 

[AppleLord]

Grimmjow has been eating Menos Grande and arrancar in order to raise his spiritual-pressure, don't forget.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

The statement about Ginjo's Getsuga being equal to Ichigo's is clearly talking about Fullbring Shikai or Bankai. Ginjo's Getsuga evenly matched Fullbring Shikai Ichigo's Getsuga and the Fullbring Bankai was casually above Bankai Ginjo.

 

[AppleLord]

The statement about Ginjo's Getsuga being equal to Ichigo's is clearly talking about Fullbring Shikai or Bankai. Ginjo's Getsuga evenly matched Fullbring Shikai Ichigo's Getsuga and the Fullbring Bankai was casually above Bankai Ginjo.

That's absurd. Ichigo no longer possessed those powers, and Ginjo has a new "featless" key. Not to mention that would put Ginjo and Fullbring above Post Zero Squad Byakuya, Shunsui, Urahara and Yoruichi.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

How does that put Ginjo above any of those characters? Are you saying that Fullbring Shikai Ichigo was above those characters somehow now?

Ginjo's new key is post Final Arc, but it has no truly good feats besides needing Tsukishima's help to fight Grimmjow and fighting the Sternritter Girls. At best we can say Bankai Ginjo is now equal to Fullbring Bankai Ichigo when originally Ginjo was stomped by that Ichigo.

 

[Danny1112]

I think the novel is referring to the strongest versions of ichigo.

It's been heavily implied that grimmjow(current) is a soul king candidate, having the power to destroy the dimensions or changing it as he wishes.

There is literally no way fullbring ichigo is a soul king candidate.

 

[USklaverei]

I also think it's Bankai Ichigo Fullbring, but it gets pretty confusing considering the new stuff in the novel.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I also think it has to be Fullbring Bankai - True Shikai

How is Grimmjow a Soul King Candidate

 

[Danny1112]

I also think it has to be Fullbring Bankai - True Shikai
How is Grimmjow a Soul King Candidate

This.

 

[Danny1112]

It's pretty obvious current ginjo is drastically stronger than he was before.

Also ichigo doesn't have fullbring bankai again iirc,why would the novel be comparing Ginjo to a form that doesn't exist again.


It's obvious Ginjo would be compared to current ichigo.

Although this might be an outlier I think.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Being a candidate doesn't automatically mean you scale in any way to Ichigo or Hikone, there are several things that need to be done for you to actually become one. Even then it's pretty much a theory since there has only been 1 actual Soul King and a couple candidates who fit the basic criteria of being multiple races.

 

[Danny1112]

I also think it's Bankai Ichigo Fullbring, but it gets pretty confusing considering the new stuff in the novel.

Sent you a pm bruh.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I believe Ginjo should compare to these Ichigo's at least :

Fullbring Bankai Ichigo (Fullbring Arc)

FB Ichigo (Quilge fight)

FB Ichigo (Post Awakening of Quincy powers)

FB Ichigo (Broken Bankai but amped from the Soul Palace treatment)

True Shikai Ichigo (No Training)

True Shikai Ichigo (Post Training)

 

[Danny1112]

Being a candidate doesn't automatically mean you scale in any way to Ichigo or Hikone, there are several things that need to be done for you to actually become one. Even then it's pretty much a theory since there has only been 1 actual Soul King and a couple candidates who fit the basic criteria of being multiple races.

This is convincing.

 

[AppleLord]

How does that put Ginjo above any of those characters? Are you saying that Fullbring Shikai Ichigo was above those characters somehow now?

Ginjo's new key is post Final Arc, but it has no truly good feats besides needing Tsukishima's help to fight Grimmjow and fighting the Sternritter Girls. At best we can say Bankai Ginjo is now equal to Fullbring Bankai Ichigo when originally Ginjo was stomped by that Ichigo.

Comparing Base Ginjo vs Grimmjow against Bankai Ginjo isn't a good argument. Saying Bankai Ginjo "should be" (no mention of it in the novel) to "Fullbring Bankai" Ichigo is just because he has "Fullbring" on the name and by that logic Bankai Ginjo can be comparable to True Bankai Ichigo because both are Soul King Candidate and both have "Fullbring" powers.

Saying Ginjo is as strong as a form Ichigo had two arcs ago destroys the scaling because Tokinada said all Royal Families (including himself) possessed a higher reiatsu than everyone else and he compared current Byakuya, Shunsui, Urahara and Yoruichi to be on the same tier as him. Instead of using his "featless" key for this upgrade. We know he trained with the Shiba clan in the manga and he didn't show what he could do.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

There is no way the statement is about True Shikai or True Bankai Ichigo when Ginjo doesn't know about that Ichigo nor was there a way for Ginjo the close such a large gap in power.

For starters, this new Ginjo is weaker than current Grimmjow who at base is now stronger than Nnoitra was according to Kenpachi. The statement was about Bankai Ginjo who is most likely also weaker than current Resurreccion Grimmjow who isn't on par with True Bankai Ichigo and probably not even True Shikai unless we do some hurdles and stretches.

 

[AppleLord]

There is no way the statement is about True Shikai or True Bankai Ichigo when Ginjo doesn't know about that Ichigo nor was there a way for Ginjo the close such a large gap in power.

For starters, this new Ginjo is weaker than current Grimmjow who at base is now stronger than Nnoitra was according to Kenpachi. The statement was about Bankai Ginjo who is most likely also weaker than current Resurreccion Grimmjow who isn't on par with True Bankai Ichigo and probably not even True Shikai unless we do some hurdles and stretches.

You mean the same Ginjo who knew that Chad and Orihime got their powers from the Hogyoku. (The author is telling you, not Ginjo.) You would be surprised to what he knows. The "close gap" in power is a cliche that Bleach left behind just like Dragon Ball Super. It doesn't makes sense but plot demands characters to get stronger.

The novel Grimmjow is the same Grimmjow who's reiatsu made True Shikai Ichigo get into a guard position, and Grimmjow was very much confident that he could fight True Shikai Ichigo. Very sure Ichigo sense how strong he had become from consuming the hollowd and Menos in Hueco Mundo. Novel stated how Grimmjow became stronger.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

You can easily disprove this scaling:

True Shikai Ichigo scales to Yhwach's High 6-A from Gremmy.

Kenpachi scales to that High 6-A from fighting Gremmy.

Grimmjow with the help of the other Espada, Arrancar and Sternritter were struggling with Iokimodome and Hikone in separate fights.

Currently Kenpachi alone is fighting a Hikone amped from Iokimodome.

That already shows Base Kenpachi is massively above Resurreccion Grimmjow and Resurreccion Grimmjow is above Bankai Ginjo.


Ginjo is not scaling to True Shikai Ichigo.

 

[TataHakai]

It really doesn't make much sense to give a huge upgrade to a character based on 1 statement and no feats at that level

 

[AppleLord]

I am no sold in the whole True Shikai Ichigo scales to Yhwach since they never fought. Yhwach was always talking and acting passive, and he had to activate his full power to stomp Fullbring Bankai Ichigo so he isn't 100% passively.

For what reason is Resurrección Grimmjow above Bankai Ginjo?

 

[AppleLord]

It really doesn't make much sense to give a huge upgrade to a character based on 1 statement and no feats at that level

Ginjo managed to wound Tokinada at the end of the chapter and he was compareble to characters that are way above Fullbring Bankai Ichigo. Unless there's some backward scaling again we should just ignore that statement and scale him to the characters he fought.

 

[TataHakai]

Characters can be way above fullbring ichigo and far below true shikai ichigo, i think he'd fit into that area then

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Tokinada isn't comparable to Post Royal Guard Byakuya. Its said he has Reiryoku similar to them, but lower.

Reminder that the same statement was in regards to Yoruichi, Kyoraku and Byakuya. They are 7-A, 7-A and High 6-A respectively. Tokinada's lower Reiryoku is a huge deal as well. He can't utilize the full potential of Zanpakutos like Yamamoto, Aizen and even Ichigo.

There's literally nothing putting Ginjo on True Shikai Ichigo's level. Especially with True Shikai =~ Kenpachi > Grimmjow > Ginjo.

 

[Aernasilver]

Y'all forgetting that Tokinada is getting weaker by the moment because of his Zanpakuto.

 

[AppleLord]

Let's go with author comparing characters with versions from two arcs ago because it makes the most sense. ovo

Even do the author didn't specify we should assume he is talking about the present incarnations. Not using a zanpakuto ability is a weakness of that sword not the user who is using a lot of Reiryoku just to keep Kyoka Suigetsu up throughout out the fight and that's why he can't use it properly but let's ignore the explanations as well.

Edit: Tokinada was mentioned to have lower reiatsu than Aizen and Ichigo.

 

[The_mysterious_man]

He has lower Reiatsu than base Aizen they only mean Nobel family head are born stronger than regular Shinigami not comparable to the current Byakuya because he did train to become ├á this level Tokinada couldn't use the full potential of Kyōka Suigetsu that mean he is weaker than base Aizen so no nothing helping Ginjo to scale to current true Shikai Ichigo

 

[AnonymousBlank]

And Base Aizen would have more reiatsu than Byakuya, Shunsui, Yoruichi and Urahara. Being weaker than Aizen is hardly an anti feat.

 

[The_mysterious_man]

That would put him above Shikai Kenpachi so rip the scaling

 

[AppleLord]

Not necessarily. There's only one problem with the scaling and we all know what it is "he CAN'T be stronger than X character" because "I don't like it" and that's the problem in a nutshell. Who else expected Piccolo or Krillin to be stronger than Super Saiyan God? No one.