Bleach Bankai General Discussion Thread 23

[AppleLord]

Where's the proof that Ichigo was weaker than Base Aizen? Let's not forget that Base Aizen had the Hogyoku Regenerationn capabilities. And that Quincy Zangetsu fused with Hollow Zangetsu who at the time of Ichigo's Dangai training were holding back, but "Hollow Zangetsu" was in the same form Ichigo used to fight Ulquiorra Segunda Etapa which is a lesser form than the combine form of both Hollow and Quincy Zangetsu. And Hollow Zangetsu in the battle with Ulquiorra wasn't at full power unlike when he fused with Quincy Zangetsu since his cloak wasn't torn.

 

[AppleLord]

Gin was going blow for blow with Ichigo, Ichigo struggled to block Gin's strikes, Ichigo needed Hollowfication to dodge Gin's Bankai, Ichigo's Getsuga was tanked by Gin, Gin could literally push back Ichigo with his Bankai... Nah fam, don't try.

Are you gonna ignore all the times Ichigo dodged his Bankai without the mask?

 

[LordWhis]

Is it possible that when he said he'd burn down the soul society Yama meant he'd burn down the entire planet ? 5B Yama ?

 

[LordWhis]

It's funny that the OP accidentally had the discussion of High 6A Unohana and now we might actually be getting High 6A Unohana ! If not higher with multipliers.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Apple

Ichigo was getting no diffed by Aizen and the one hit he landed was tanked with only a small cut.

The Dangai training isn't evidence for FKT Bankai Ichigo being strong when he monologues about how Zangetsu and Tensa are holding back a stupid mount of their power and could one shot him at any point in time if they ever felt like it. If holding back doesn't stop people from scaling, SS Shikai scales to Urahara.

@Whis

Forgot to address the part of your post that was actually at me lol.

Hax? She got sealed and was demolishing physically with Hiyori and Lisa doing little to change the fight.

You forget that she also countered Shiro so saying him being the perfect counter to her is purposely ignoring the context of their fight.

Time skip stuff is irrelevant. Quilge fodderized the Tres Bestia, it was Ayon (>>>> Tres Bestia) who was actually strong and overwhelmed Quilge. During FKT, Matsumoto was taking on all three in base and Momo showing up completely pwned their bases and forced R1 which they still held of and caused Ayon to be brought out.

Yhwach treated Harribel as trash and was recruiting literally any Arrancar that would join him, she wasn't some War Power so to say he invaded HM just to recruit her is far too much of a leap.

Never called her a weakling. I said she is weaker than Ulq which is true and the only argument against this is her ranking and a hint that Aizen knew about SE. If tanks scale people above, guess we will scale Nel as she was the former 3rd during a time that would include Ulq as she was made by the Hogyoku.

 

[Baldurgate]

Current arrancars should be stronger , no?

Zaraki really " likes" them, also base Grim was ~ base Ginjo, who in bankai have a chances versus Hikone.

So.

Zaraki > current arrancars > ... old Zaraki ~ Cien( Ichigo Full hollow) > Ulq with lanza.

We really need proper SAFWY translation...

 

[Peter1129]

Volume 1 arrives next week for me which means we can confirm if the 30% Base Cien > Yammy thing is true. But Volume 2 which contains the supposed Resureccion Cien = Full Hollow Ichigo statement doesn't arrive until next month so yeah we aren't gonna get confirmation anytime soon.

 

[LordWhis]

If Unohana is the only soul reaper that scales to Lanza that would make the whole kenpachi means strongest soul reaper thing from SS arc true. And bring whole new meaning to Unohana's statement that she was stronger than everyone except Zaraki and Zaraki had to surpass her to become the strongest.

@anon: I'm just saying if she was > Ulq it wouldn't be an outlier.

 

[LordWhis]

With enough prep could Mayuri beat PSK ?

 

[Tyri456]

hope that PSK is not prime soul king, almighty says NOPE

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

If Unohana is the only soul reaper that scales to Lanza that would make the whole kenpachi means strongest soul reaper thing from SS arc true. And bring whole new meaning to Unohana's statement that she was stronger than everyone except Zaraki and Zaraki had to surpass her to become the strongest.
@anon: I'm just saying if she was > Ulq it wouldn't be an outlier.

Yeah true, I mean, if you think about it. Yama says that nobody in a 1,000 years has been born to surpass him and we have some flashback panels where Unohana appears and Kenpachi has fought Unohana as a kid and she looks around the same...

So...All I'm saying is that it could be true, especially because I believe the stronger a soul is the slower they age and since Unohana pretty much looks THICCC for over thousands of years... SO...

 

[LordWhis]

Unohana is also over 2000 years old so the 1000 year statement doesn't apply to either her or Ichibe.

And even if Yama could beat her with fire/heat hax, her having more Raw AP is not impossible.

She was also the only soul reaper who was able to see through KS.

People also seem more scared of her than of Yama. Shunsui and Ukitake had no fear taking on Yama yet they genuinely pissed their pants when Unohana snuck up behind them before Urahara's captaincy announcement.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Unohana is also over 2000 years old so the 1000 year statement doesn't apply to either her or Ichibe.
And even if Yama could beat her with fire/heat hax, her having more Raw AP is not impossible.

She was also the only soul reaper who was able to see through KS.

People also seem more scared of her than of Yama. Shunsui and Ukitake had no fear taking on Yama yet they genuinely pissed their pants when Unohana snuck up behind them before Urahara's captaincy announcement.

Wait she can see through KS ?

 

[Baldurgate]

arrives next week for me which means we can confirm if the 30% Base Cien > Yammy thing is true.

Oh, it will be really good to confirm it.

Volume 2

Maybe if we found Raw version of this book earlier...


So , who can be also scalled to ulq lanza , except survived arrancars / Uno?

 

[LordWhis]

Did Ichibe say that a soul king candidate has to have the same level of reiatsu as Ichigo and Yhwach ?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Scaling the former Epsada to Lanza is obscenely generois and Retsu isn't even the strongest Shinigami whose only way to scale is if pre MuKen does which scales others like Yama, Shunsui, Jushiro, Aizen, Isshin, Kisuke etc who are all on her level or straight up stronger.

@Whis

No. Ginjo is a candidate but he sure isn't on Ichigo's level. FB Bankai beat him and Base Yhwach treated that like a joke.

Retsu also never saw through KS. It was her medical knowledge that tipped her off to dead Aizen being wrong somehow but could never figure out what exactly.

 

[USklaverei]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:USklaverei/Bankai_Ichigo_adapting_to_Kamishini_no_Yari

what do you think about it?

 

[AppleLord]

Holding back isn't proof that is weaker either. Kubo show us and told us that the form Hollow Zangetsu had before Ichigo was the one he used to beat Ulquiorra and at that time we know he wasn't even at 50% of power like the one in front of Ichigo who had the full cloak and Reiryoku. Afterwards, that same more powerful version of the form that beat Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra fused with Quincy Zangetsu to become even a stronger being. There's no point in getting 2 new power ups to train Ichigo and just ignore all of that and use the strength of a lesser from than Ulquiorra's Segunda Etapa.

 

[Baldurgate]

Scaling the former Epsada to Lanza is obscenely generois

In manga , she clearly sayed to Grimmjow , that her number was real.

Also, in novel we have Chuhlhourne speach : "Fufu... Rivalry is a beautiful thing. For example; in terms of strength, Halibel-sama and Neliel-sama are twice that of mine..."

So this "former" means nothing

FB Bankai beat him

But he got trained with Kukkaku an ko , so it wasn't same Gingo.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Apple

What? Thats all the proof thats needed. If you know he is holding back immensely and can literally one shot Ichigo with the slightest effort, how om earth cam you use that as an argument to say Ichigo is stronger than anyone? We know he is stronger than before by scaling and being blatantly told. If holding back doesn't make Zangetsu's strikes weaker, what does holding back do then? What was the point in Ichigo's monologue on him being vastly weaker than Zangetsu, of Kubo including it, if Ichigo apparently scales to Zangetsu anyway?

@Baldur

Use common sense. Former refers to the fact that the Espada are no longer a thing.

Great, she is saying she is stronger than Grimmjow is by referencing their former ranks. Please show me where she says she is above Ulq or scales above Lanza, even SE would do.

Charlotte is trash to Harribel and Nel in FKT, I have no clue what a statement that supports Charlotte's growth has to do with anything I said.

Kukaku would get stomped by Scaffold Ginjo. He is so far above her that I am confident he can stomp millions of her without any weapon at all. Training with her does absolutely nothing for him. Literally only Tsukishima is able to do anything to him and Ginjo is already stronger than him by a good margin and taught him everything he knows about fighting. All you have is maybe unquantifiably stronger than before which is irrelevant to what I was answering, that being reiatsu has nothing to do with being the SK candidate.

 

[AppleLord]

Basically the whole argument been "I am gonna evolve x2 times in this stronger form but I am gonna use less power that either of us can generate in our weakest state for your training and we are holding back, somehow becoming stronger was to achieve the power to hold back."

Zangetsu jumps from a power level of 2 to 4 to train Ichigo but somehow goes back to 1 because Ichigo had a power level of 1/2.

How is this even an argument?

Krillin vs SSB Goku all over again.

 

[Zezu1995]

krillin vs ssb goku was just to see how he handles it.. goku literally said "what will you do now krillin" he was testing him

 

[Naeblis495]

trying to scale karakura arc ichigo( before dangai anyway and even then) to fused/merged zangetsu in ANY way is completely silly imo.

fused/merged zangetsu wasn't even trying at all

yhwach zangetsu could have kicked his butt , hollow zangetsu could have kicked his butt. Them fusing was overkill to scare ichigo into giving up .

That's like trying to scale masked ichigo to R2 ulqui when he was already getting slaughtered by R1 ulqui not even trying his best .

and i agree , Goku was just testing krillin , to see if he had completely regained his fighting spirit and wasn't scared of powerfull opponent anymore ( that was a plot point a few episode prior iirc). Goku could have oneshotted krillin in base .

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Fairly certain thats a similar thing with Zangetsu as Ichigo had lost hope and dropped the 40 day flood on Zangetsu and Old Man in the span of 5 minutes.

 

[AppleLord]

Ichigo before Dangai doesn't scale at all to Fuse Zangetsu.

New Mask Ichigo and Base Aizen before Dangai scale above Ulquiorra Segunda Etapa.

 

[LordWhis]

@anon: Also Momo wasn't superior to the base tres bestia, she was weaker than any of them individually by her own admission she used strategy to gain the upper hand against them.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I never said she was stronger, just that her arrival and helping Matsumoto forced the three into R1, which she did. Whether it is strength or tactics, she still did what I said she did so my point stands.

 

[LordWhis]

If Ichibei writes Yhwach on people do they get Yhwach's powers ?

 

[LordWhis]

If a character is under KS in canon do we assume they are already under KS in the beginning in a VS thread against Aizen ?

 

[AppleLord]

If a character is under KS in canon do we assume they are already under KS in the beginning in a VS thread against Aizen ?

Good question, No but Yes. They are not under KS when the battle starts, they are only under the influence of KS if Aizen activates it.

 

[AppleLord]

So Hell is a World too?

https://missstormcaller.tumblr.com/post/165156414547/cant-fear-your-own-world-part-7-full-Translation

 

[Amasnesotdrol]

Anyway new thread