Black vs Red! Ichigo Kurosaki vs Saber of Red (Mordred)

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Same reason why Saber has different keys depending on masters. But sure if we ignore that, then I'm assuming she gets a holy grail.

Mordred stomps by spamming Clarent Blood Arthur via near limitless holy grail magical energy.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Also it's not outside help since it's basically her second energy source. If you remove that then why don't we remove half of Ichigo's reiatsu then?

 

[Rin_Rokudo]

People still be using Shunpo as an argument in a speed equalized fight smh

 

[Dat_Dot]

Mordred stomps by spamming Clarent Blood Arthur via near limitless holy grail magical energy.

Whoa wait, Mordred has limitless magical energy?

 

[KuuIchigo]

Might as well close it, Scarlet. This is not a debate; just a bunch of people throwing shade at each other.

Like every Bleach vs Fate thread.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

No she doesn't I just replaced her master with a holy grail. Since we are allowing others to remove masters then I don't see why I can't give her a holy grail.

 

[Dat_Dot]

Yeah it's better to close this thread.

I never thought it will turnout this way, so someone please close this?

 

[Boa_Hancock_25]

I don't think it needs to be closed. It something that can happen sometimes but it's not anything concerning.

I will get this into the debate again.

I mostly agree with points made for Mordred but I'd like to address some of them.

Ichigo having flight doesn't mean much, he's a brawler that doesn't usually use the flight advantage. And yes GT take a bit less time to charge and can be spammed to an extent but Blood Arthur one shots. I see Mordred winning this high-diff due to her abiklity to go on with mortal wounds. She can exchange shots with Ichigo and she will survive it, Ichigo won't.

 

[Boa_Hancock_25]

It's very close though, Blood Arthur can be performed less times than GT but thanks to her Instincts and her more refined battle experience she can pull it off.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

People still be using Shunpo as an argument in a speed equalized fight smh

Shunpo is a momentary speed boost.

the way i see it speed equalised only applies physically,techniques that provide a momentary speed boost is a different matter altogether IMO

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Blood Arthur One Shots,yes

But Ichigo is not just standing there waiting to be hit is he? he can always dodge and use the time mordred charges as an advantage to counter

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

No unless it's a speed boosts through time manipulation it gets equalised.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

People still be using Shunpo as an argument in a speed equalized fight smh

Shunpo is a momentary speed boost.

This is a really gray area. There have been numerous threads regarding speed equalization and it's meaning, I'm still not sure about it. The OP can verify though.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Shunpo is a momentary speed boost.
This is a really gray area. There have been numerous threads regarding speed equalization and it's meaning, I'm still not sure about it. The OP can verify though.
the only time i see shunpo being a part of speed equal is if you gave the opponent shunpo as well.....

 

[Boa_Hancock_25]

Blood Arthur One Shots,yes
But Ichigo is not just standing there waiting to be hit is he? he can always dodge and use the time mordred charges as an advantage to counter

Yes I know, but the charging time is a miniscule window. We're talking about a window Hypersonic+ Servants cannot use, so I wouldn't really rely on that window that much. And he doesn't know about it either.

I know he can dodge it, but as I said her Instinct and battle prowess will allow her to find the opportune moment to strike and end it. Just my opinion.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Yes I know, but the charging time is a miniscule window. We're talking about a window Hypersonic+ servants cannot use, so I wouldn't really rely on that window that much.

I know he can dodge it, but as I said her Instinct and battle prowess will allow her to find the opportune moment to strike and end it. Just my opinion.

i'd say we hold on to that argument "dodging Blood Arthur"

since if the OP equalises shunpo,i concede

but if he dosen't i'll continue

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

@Dat Dot

waiting on you.

 

[Dat_Dot]

Well I do have theory for shunpo in equalized speed, its a technique to accelerate the user speed so in equalize match lets say both combatant have limited to Mach 100, while A can reach 100 by running for let say 10 second, meanwhile B with shunpo can potentially reach mach 100 faster or even instantly, of course its only my theory.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

@Dot

So...acceleration?

 

[Kaltias]

Pretty sure that speed equal says "no speed stat amping"

Otherwise literally every speed equal thread with DBS Goku would be "Goku uses Kaioken x 20 and blitzes"

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Well I do have theory for shunpo in equalized speed, its a technique to accelerate the user speed so in equalize match lets say both combatant have limited to Mach 100, while A can reach 100 by running for let say 10 second, meanwhile B with shunpo can potentially reach mach 100 faster or even instantly, of course its only my theory.

you kind of overcomplicated things a bit bro

sorry but mind rephrasing?

 

[Boa_Hancock_25]

you kind of overcomplicated things a bit bro

sorry but mind rephrasing?

He means Ichigo can reach the limit speed faster than Mordred. Two cars can have the same top speed, but one reaches it faster than the other. Doesn't really change my argument though.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Pretty sure that speed equal says "no speed stat amping"
Otherwise literally every speed equal thread with DBS Goku would be "Goku uses Kaioken x 20 and blitzes"

let's just leave that to the DBS threads

"Pretty sure that speed equal says "no speed stat amping"

that's a bit unfair and limiting dont you think?

 

[Dat_Dot]

you kind of overcomplicated things a bit bro
sorry but mind rephrasing?

Ah sorry, well the simple way I can describe is a people with shunpo can reach their top speed near instantly.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

"Pretty sure that speed equal says "no speed stat amping"

that's a bit unfair and limiting dont you think?

Not that much in this case, no. Mordred has her own version of Shunpo, the Mana Burst. That gets restricted as well, at least it's speed amping part.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, it was only an example, but fine.

Imagine a MFTL+ character A who has a speed amping technique that is a x200 boost.

Now put them in a match where speed is equalized to prevents a blitz against a FTL+ character B.

As soon as said technique is used, A blitzes B. Which is the exact thing that the equalization is meant to prevent.

 

[Dat_Dot]

Speed Equalization for me means limiting combatant top speed to a certain level where their speed is equal, for example Ichigo top speed normally 1000 mach but Mordred top speed is Mach 100, so in order to make things fair in speed equalization, Ichigo top speed will be limited to mach 100. so if character A have speed amping technique he can use it to reach top speed that equal to B's speed instantly, at least for me its like that.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

What a fun thread this looks like. People debating reiatsu crush, people debating shunpo in speed equal, people debating Mordred not having a master...

Anyway. Mordred gets a master to supply her energy, but he's off sitting in some pocket reality and otherwise has no impact on the fight. Saying "no outside help means no Master" is like saying Khorne isn't there in a Kharn fight, or the Brothers Death aren't there in a SCP 1770 fight, except worse because at least Kharn and 1770 can actually exist without their respective buddies.

Reiatsu crush isn't a thing because A) spirits are fundamentally spiritual beings with only one exception (that I know of) due to Counter Force stuff and B) from what I understand Reiatsu is dependent on differences in Reiryoku levels, and Reiryoku gets equalised to prana/magical energy via verse equalisation

Speed amps don't work in speed equalised. Only exception is time manipulation stuff

Also, Mordred via precog/instincts and CBA

Also, hey Scarlet, what's up? Haven't seen you around the wiki recently. I think we missed a month of featured matchups too.

 

[Dat_Dot]

I want clarify something. This version of Ichigo is 7-A version during thousands year of blood war, which mean Ichigo have his Blut Vene, so this is not the version when he fight Ginjo, so in order to compesate Ichigo's shunpo (Which is one of his main technique) and lack variety in technique, I'm gonna allow Ichigo to use Blut Vene.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

@DD If you allows Blut Vene, doesn't Ichigo stomp since Mordri has no way to bypass Country level dura?

 

[Dat_Dot]

Oh crap, forgot that thing has country level rating, nevermind then...

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Good....votes for Mordred. Both of them can be rash at times, but Mordred more refined skills+precog and instinct gave her the win

 

[Dat_Dot]

Alright, can someone help me with the votes? I'm pretty sure this match is nearly over.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Sorry, can't help you due the mess above. I'm not so sure who votes who, but Monarch and I votes for saber's "Son".

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I will count the votes and see where we at.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

"son"

I know Nasu likes his rule 63, but Arturia and Mordred's situation is just weird

 

[ScarletFirefly]

As if they're the only genderbent characters there...

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Yeah, that's why I said Nasu likes his Rule 63

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Like what you see, Mongrels!!!

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I'll just bleach my eyes now thanks Homura.

Also votes are:

Ichigo (2): Unite My Rice, Yomi Schwarz

Mordred (9): Damned Salvation, Ramesses the Sun King, Rin Rokudo, BoomeYang , Josif1, Newendigo, Boa Hancock 25, Monarch Laciel, Homu Sweet Homu

If I forgot anyone, please correct me.