BLACK CLOVER MINI CRT : YAMI CAUSALITY MANIPULATION/TIME MANIPULATION

[Fwyzzverse]

Explanation ​

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Intrinsic notations causality manipulation : The user can redirect any cause to any effect, undo anything by reversing the cause/effect relationship, or even separate them entirely, making a specific effect impossible to cause or a specific cause producing no effect at all. A finger snap that normally produces sound and kinetic force could instead cause a solar explosion or massive resurrection.

Now taking on Yami's Dimension Slash attack, his mana zone spreading attack in any space, finite or infinite, cuts across the three spatial dimensions in a linear fashion. However, when used against Dorothy, Yami's Dimension Slash had a completely different effect : first, it cut in a linear fashion, but then its attack went back in time and broke Dorothy's infinite structure rather than cutting it. The attack passed through two dimensionally separate worlds, but in the real world the linear cut took place, so there are two different effects caused by the Dimension Slash and the rewinding of time : the explosion, the shattering and the basic effect of the cut.

So as Causality Manipulation induces us :

• A finger snap that normally produces sound and kinetic force could instead cause a solar explosion or massive resurrection.
• A Dimension Slash, which normally causes a linear cut in space, this time had a time effect that was renewed by the Dimension Slash and rewinding of time, and also had an explosion effect that shattered the Infinite Dimension.

Now some might say that it's impossible for Yami to manipulate Time, because there's no time in the Dream World, Dorothy refers to time and the fact that those who fall asleep will never wake up. So Yami could well have manipulated time in order to change the cause (time going backwards) and the effect (the explosion and broken structure).

Capacity added to Yami's Profile:

• Causality Manipulation: Can change the cause-and-effect relationship of Dimension Slash
• Time Manipulation (Limited): Can go back in time with his Dimension Slash via his mana zone.
• Reality Warping: Because he can alter time by making it go in the opposite direction for a brief moment, involving a type of Magic and Space and Time manipulation.

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Your vote:​

Those who agree : @ElAlekaPL , (For Reality Warping), @Rafaltmr ,@Joshyyy_64

Those who are neutral :

Those who disagree : @CloverDragon03 ,@ElAlekaPL (For Causality Manipulation, Time Manipulation), @Lynieryz ,@Sonoftanavast9 ,@speedster352 ,@Nierre , @SunDaGamer

 

[Joshyyy_64]

OOOH DAMN! I'm following, I'm genuinely interested

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

I have a better suggestion, how about high 3-A + infinite speed + NPI +CM2 for equinox dimensional cutting

 

[Fwyzzverse]

OOOH DAMN! I'm following, I'm genuinely interested

Then be interested

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Then be interested

 

[CloverDragon03]

“I didn’t write that.” - Yuki Tabata, probably

This all just seems like wild visual effects. Like, where did the blood come from to begin with? At best I can maybe see Reality Warping, but that’s being generous. Hard disagree on Causality Manipulation and Time Manipulation

 

[Fwyzzverse]

This all just seems like wild visual effects. Like, where did the blood come from to begin with? At best I can maybe see Reality Warping, but that’s being generous. Hard disagree on Causality Manipulation and Time Manipulation

What you call blood is not blood, but only the tea from the Tellier that was in the field of the cut, so it cancels out your visual effect argument with this.

 

[CloverDragon03]

No, it really doesn’t. It still doesn’t change the fact that this is in an episode flooded with insane visual effects, and this sort of ability is never shown again from Dimension Slash Equinox. Not even in the anime itself.

I’m still much more willing to write these off as visual effects than I am to give Yami these abilities

 

[Fwyzzverse]

No, it really doesn’t. It still doesn’t change the fact that this is in an episode flooded with insane visual effects, and this sort of ability is never shown again from Dimension Slash Equinox. Not even in the anime itself.

I’m still much more willing to write these off as visual effects than I am to give Yami these abilities

If that's the case, we can see quite clearly that it's tea that's come out of the container, and I'm sorry, but the episode isn't full of insane visual effects, everything was coherent and this would be even more so, especially since in the dream world everything is possible, so logically this would be even more so. And the fact that he wasn't in the other uses doesn't change a feat remains a feat as long as he's shown us he's capable of applying it

 

[CloverDragon03]

If you’re saying “anything is possible in the Dream World,” then these are not actually because of Dimension Slash.

Also no, if it’s never shown again, it better enables me to write this off as visual effects. Realistically, Yami should always be warping reality, time, and causality every time he uses Equinox. But he doesn’t.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

As far as I know, it's a matter of manipulating it, which means that he can allow himself to do so, or not. It's not as if it's passive, and yet we could say that in the dream world he had the possibility to do so because it's not his real world, and that here he'd be able to destroy it completely without making a limited mana zone.

 

[CloverDragon03]

As far as I know, it's a matter of manipulating it, which means that he can allow himself to do so, or not. It's not as if it's passive, and yet we could say that in the dream world he had the possibility to do so because it's not his real world, and that here he'd be able to destroy it completely without making a limited mana zone.

You’d need to prove he’s making that conscious decision, because the scene in question makes it look like it’s a passive effect. And such a thing is never even remotely hinted at. My problem is that this is extrapolating a lot out of something that doesn’t hint anywhere near as much

 

[Fwyzzverse]

You’d need to prove he’s making that conscious decision, because the scene in question makes it look like it’s a passive effect. And such a thing is never even remotely hinted at. My problem is that this is extrapolating a lot out of something that doesn’t hint anywhere near as much

If we take into account that he pushes back the limit within Dorothy's dimension and the words that follow, then yes, it could very well be that he means it consciously, especially as Dorothy has explained to him the principle of his power, so he could enslave it to his advantage.

 

[CloverDragon03]

You keep saying “it could.” That’s not definitive. I need proof, not headcanons

 

[Fwyzzverse]

It's strange because it seems to me that in my previous argument I never once said the word "possible" and if you thought I was referring to my previous argument when I said "and the words that follow" I was talking about the words said by Yami on the frequency of the video I cut.

 

[Lynieryz]

No, it was clearly a visual effect to highlight the attack and show the scene again to the audience, especially since time magic was stated to be something only demons[Astaroth] have, and that is enough to destroy this CRT since everything proposed comes from time manipulation.

 

[CloverDragon03]

It's strange because it seems to me that in my previous argument I never once said the word "possible" and if you thought I was referring to my previous argument when I said "and the words that follow" I was talking about the words said by Yami on the frequency of the video I cut.

“it could very well be that he means it consciously”
“so he could enslave it to his advantage”

Yeah okay

 

[Fwyzzverse]

No, it was clearly a visual effect to highlight the attack and show the scene again to the audience, especially since time magic was stated to be something only demons[Astaroth] have, and that is enough to destroy this CRT since everything proposed comes from time manipulation.

So because only one character should have temporal magic, a temporal ability could not be generated in any other way? In black clover, it's common to find feats that are not intrinsic to the type of magic Yuno is proof of this with his manipulation of time.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

“it could very well be that he means it consciously”
“so he could enslave it to his advantage”

Yeah okay

I still haven't said verbatim "it's possible" as you say above

 

[CloverDragon03]

I still haven't said verbatim "it's possible" as you say above

You’re arguing pointless semantics just for the sake of it. And that’s not even what I said anyway

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Disagree FRA

 

[CloverDragon03]

So because only one character should have temporal magic, a temporal ability could not be generated in any other way? In black clover, it's common to find feats that are not intrinsic to the type of magic Yuno is proof of this with his manipulation of time.

And they’re all explained in the series. The fact that this isn’t explained despite a precedent being set for explaining complex magic effects/abilities doesn’t help your case either.

Plus, Yuno’s case is not a good example. This was only achievable through stored up magic with himself and Bell, with a single spell that seems to have adverse effects on him, 15 months AFTER the statement we’re referring to was made

 

[Fwyzzverse]

And they’re all explained in the series. The fact that this isn’t explained despite a precedent being set for explaining complex magic effects/abilities doesn’t help your case either.

On the contrary, they help and are intrinsic even to that we cannot ignore them.

Plus, Yuno’s case is not a good example. This was only achievable through stored up magic with himself and Bell, with a single spell that seems to have adverse effects on him, 15 months AFTER the statement we’re referring to was made

In practice, this doesn't change the fact that it's a manipulation of time, and whether there's a reason for it or not, as you explain, doesn't change the situation. He doesn't have the magic types for it, but time manipulation still applies in the end, so...

(I rewrite because there was a bug that put the message to which I replied in French)

 

[Fwyzzverse]

You’re arguing pointless semantics just for the sake of it. And that’s not even what I said anyway

But it's only true that for this to be a visual effect, the attack would have had to be taken backwards and then repeated, so YES, but only here we can see that it isn't, and that it's taken backwards to have a completely different effect due to the passage of time.

 

[CloverDragon03]

On the contrary, they help and are intrinsic even to that we cannot ignore them.

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here

In practice, this doesn't change the fact that it's a manipulation of time, and whether there's a reason for it or not, as you explain, doesn't change the situation. He doesn't have the magic types for it, but time manipulation still applies in the end, so...

(I rewrite because there was a bug that put the message to which I replied in French)

No, in practice this means that no one should be able to manipulate time before that statement is made. Nor is any alleged manipulation of time, causality, or any reality warping even hinted at

But it's only true that for this to be a visual effect, the attack would have had to be taken backwards and then repeated, so YES, but only here we can see that it isn't, and that it's taken backwards to have a completely different effect due to the passage of time.

Prove that these alleged abilities are something acknowledged by the series

 

[Swordsaint456]

dissagree fra

 

[Nierre]

ambitious crt, but alas i disagree FRA

 

[SunDaGamer]

This isn't Causality Manip at all, the finger snap example being cited is an example of an application of Causality Manip, it is not indicative of Causality Manip on its own because Causality Manip has to be established as the reason why a different effect was produced. We don't give characters Causality Manip on the basis that their finger snap produced fire instead of a clicking noise, that would just be Fire Manip without any further statements regarding causality.

 

[ElAlekaPL]

Agree with warp, but disagree with time and causality manip. However, this feat gives Yami's Dimensional Slash Conceptual Destruction Type 3, because he's cutting a mind world that is physically inexistent and outside of the world. Futhermore, Morris mentions directly that Glamour World is a concept. It's type 3, but is concept manip

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

e's cutting a mind world that is physically inexistent

This scan doesn't say it is physically inexistent nor does it even mean that in context. Henry can't sense the pieces of the black bulls hideout that's dragged into the dream world because they are in a different dimension which is why he says "But they don't exist anywhere"(pay attention to the word anywhere) seeing as how he lacks interdimensional sensory range

outside of the world

What Dorothy just says is "It's a space that's isolated from the outside world" which is not only the standard for any and all pocket dimensions but she also directly calls it a space

All Yami is doing is cutting through a pocket world with an attack that specifically cuts through dimensions aka pocket worlds

directly that Glamour World is a concept.

Not once in any of these pages does he say the words "The Glamor World is a concept" he says he himself can interact with concept which would affects the glamor world irrespective of whether the world itself was a concept or not in the same way it would interact with a person irrespective of if that person has abstract existence type 1 or not

 

[Worthless]

Why are people responding to this seriously? And now we even have someone saying the Dream World isn't a nonphysical world.

 

[speedster352]

Disagree fra

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

This really looks good

 

[Fwyzzverse]

it is not indicative of Causality Manip on its own because Causality Manip has to be established as the reason why a different effect was produced.

Hence the fact that I deduce that the effect is due to the cause of the flashback through a manipulation of time.

We don't give characters Causality Manip on the basis that their finger snap produced fire instead of a clicking noise, that would just be Fire Manip without any further statements regarding causality.

I understood it very well, I was only taking it as a minor basis for a more precise argument on how to apply the causal manipulation to Yami.

 

[Rafaltmr]

You're going to hate me but I agree

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Nobody's gonna hate u

 

[Fwyzzverse]

Bump

 

[Joshyyy_64]

put me in agree for all the above. but I have a question. I have my own stupid theory to this as an answer but how come Yami never used equinox against Dante and how come the conventional dimension slash couldn't cut through Dante's gravity in that one particular chapter where he warped it. I'm sure you know what im on abt but i just can't remember the chapter.

 

[Fwyzzverse]

I agree with you and I'll go and have a look at the chapter too to make the link with the theory.

 

[CloverDragon03]

put me in agree for all the above. but I have a question. I have my own stupid theory to this as an answer but how come Yami never used equinox against Dante and how come the conventional dimension slash couldn't cut through Dante's gravity in that one particular chapter where he warped it. I'm sure you know what im on abt but i just can't remember the chapter.

Maybe it's because Yami's Equinox doesn't actually have all these proposed abilities...